Karnage

The worst I've had was from a singer who was an apple short of a picnic, swung his mic stand around and proceeded to pitch shift my voice by an octave... played the rest of the song bent over, and then sat on the floor in agony for a couple of minutes before we continued! I certainly hope I don't catch myself with the 6 string I have, it weighs the most of anything I've worn - even more than my Fender Nashville B-Bender Tele, and that's saying something!

I have played the Squier Jazz Vintage Modified Fretless, probably the same neck materials, and I thought it was amazing for about £275 or so. Had Duncan Designed pickups if I remember right, and they sounded great for that price bracket to me. I'd expect the Precision to offer the same value/quality.

[quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1378231665' post='2197472'] If you're going to try out a few Fenders then try out the Squiers too. You may well save yourself almost a grand. I recently tested out a MIA Fender Jazz, a MIM Fender Jazz and a Squier VM 77 Jazz and the Squier was the nicest one out of the lot to play. The MIA felt big and clunky (may not be a bad thing for some) and sounded better - it had custom shop pickups in though. The MIM was just horrible, just like every MIM I've played so far and the Squier played much better than both and sounded much better than the MIM. I'm tempted to go back in, buy the Squier and grab whatever pups I want (could afford Nordstrands with the savings I'd make) and have the best bass in the shop. And still have around £700 left over... In short, at least try a Squier to compare. [/quote] Those Squier basses around the £300 mark felt very good indeed when I tried a few. The fretless was actually the real tempter, a PJ set up pickup wise, felt really slick even for a fretless.

That's certainly really funny! Buying coated strings in the first place is the other option! I suppose it depends how bad the strings get first, but it's a great little trick.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1380317520' post='2223886'] Not being able to hear yourself close to the rig is from mid scooping, poor dispersion and a null zone from a boundary reflection. nothing to do with valves, valves are probably better as the harmonics tend to fill in the mid scoop. The other stuff is entirely to do with the cabinets. 15 + 4x10 makes a total mess all over. [/quote] Oh agreed, but this was about a smaller rig being often easier to hear on stage than a 2 cab rig. Just took me ages to get the chap to try it! I wasn't attributing the issue to valves whatsoever, but to some cabs ability to project very differently. When we did a comparison with 2 bands working together, a cheaper Trace cab was easier to hear on stage than an expensive Ampeg one at a point where both sounded pretty similar volumes at the back of the venue (at several different venues we tried too). We were working the Trace cab harder to get it to the back, the Ampeg was projecting more efficiently it seems, using the same amp driving both.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1380490923' post='2226202'] The fact that the standard guitar cab is a 4x12, whilst standard bass cab is a 4x10 is part of why bass needs more power. [/quote] Almost as many bass players use 2 cabs as guitarists use one 4x12. The biggest cab I've used for guitar is 4x10 myself, and switched to smaller as it was quite simply overkill. There is a power reason on average for a reason, and it's not the speaker area, but the balance of power required. A PA system will have more powerful subs than mid-tops, despite the mid-tops often covering more octaves of frequency response in real terms. It's how music is balanced in power terms.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1380289992' post='2223348'] Totally wrong. Same power is same output. It might be different output that you want, probably more lows, that comes from power supply and output transformer size. [/quote] I think what Coolwire is getting at is that guitar needs less power to be effective in the mix at whatever volume. Especially when a distorted guitar sound is used, a 15 watt all valve amp with a good speaker will suffice on stage, a 60watt all valve bass amp will have difficulty balancing to that amp when on full in a mix. 10 times is maybe a little drastic in most cases, but definitely a factor bigger in real terms. Most 2 way speakers do not have the same power rating for the tweeter as for the woofer for similar reasons. Music requires much more power at the lower frequencies than the higher ones as a rule (why pink noise was developed for testing systems as opposed to just using unweighted white noise).

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1380371994' post='2224401']Steve is an incredible player, but I personally find Iron Maiden unlistenable, and, when I think about it, I have only known one person in my entire life who openly admits to liking their music , and I know a lot of people . I suppose lots of people out there must like it because they are without doubt one of the most enduringly successful bands ever . [/quote] Wow, you must have a strange 'clique' going on there or just not actually brought it up with many! I've loved Iron Maiden for many years (remember collecting that mad 'First Ten Years' box set for 10 weeks while at university as one of many doing so) especially in the Adrian Smith era, his solos were so carefully thought out in comparison with almost all other metal players that were popular then in my opinion.

For a start, the mids on my guitars aren't scooped often, as that is where a guitar should be heard. Try getting one of those over-scooped Mesa sounds past a Hammond, you probably won't hear it! Does depend what's there as a whole. The 'mid' frequencies for most bass sounds are actually the lower ones you want to hear from guitars and keyboards in a lot of situations. The 'mid' frequencies for the guitars are not in the same spot. They are at 1-2khz where bass guitar mids are 400-500hz or so. Take some out at times to let other sounds breathe. A messy bass sound can clog the entire mix and make everything sound messy (not just the bass) so it's always a careful balance, affected hugely by what else is in there with the bass. That's why you get a lot of more 'scooped' bass sounds appearing (not lots of mid scooped out, just likely to have some scooped) where you have brighter guitars and lots of keys sounds, so everything gets it's 'spot'.

You use valves when you want the character and non-linear response they have, like the extra harmonic content they generate and the natural compression as you work them harder. I find this more important for me when playing guitar than bass personally, even if I still like it on bass. I miss having valves or really good models of them on guitar, where I can enjoy a great SS bass amp like a Gallien Krueger and others in a way a straight SS guitar amp never delivers as I want less 'honest' or linear amplification with guitar. Use a Fender Blues Junior often on guitar. I have modded the circuit (changing values to match a different Fender tone stack, beefed up power supply caps, speaker change etc) in a way I'd never bother trying with a SS amp I'd guess. They have to be so much more complex to be a guitar amp than valve amps, you can't really consider it. A 15 watt valve amp for guitar is often enough to get a high quality practical sound with an efficient speaker, but with bass the need for power is such that the cost and weight of the kit changes the cost/benefit balance even more. A point-point wired valve amp will in the end outlive pretty much everything else (plenty been working hard well over 50 years) as circuit boards won't live as long, but point to point will cost you!! Not many people keep amps as long as point-point wired amps are designed to live for either, so who gets the benefit? I'm pretty happy sticking to SS power stages with bass, more so than with guitar. One point really missed about some amps are their projection characteristics. Some people have issues with big Ampeg rigs where they say they are lacking in power or weight of sound. They actually can on stage sometimes, without the bass player realising the people at the back of the venue are starting to feel involuntary bowel movement issues!! Did sound for a great player who used an all valve Ampeg setup and he had this issue, with the sound going 'past' him while on stage. Ended up in smaller (300 or smaller punter numbers) venues giving him some high-pass foldback so he could stop the bass amp being too much out front! Some bass amps actually have too much projection for the benefit of the player on stage, the larger the rig (this was 1x15 + 4x10) the greater chance that the player can only hear a small portion of what's going past them.

Look how much clearance you have 1 'fret' worth further up the neck when 'fretting' as a guide, and make it just a touch higher so you aren't replacing the nut again too soon due to wear. Sounds very high right now to me.

The lower the note and/or the heavier the string, the harder it is for the sponge to mute it. It needs to get thinner as the strings get thinner to be more even in result. On the pickup wiring, consider looking up how to wire series/parallel humbucking for these pickups if they are four-wired. This allows you to get a sound very close to single coils (it's two in parallel) but keep the lack of noise. Parallel for single type sound, series for standard humbucker. I use push-pull pots to do the switching to save more hole drilling etc.

Similarly to Pete just above me, I think not much glue at all. The strings do hold the nut pretty much in place in general as Pete says, so don't think you have to get glue happy. I actually use a small amount of clear nail varnish for this job sometimes, due again to it being easy to sheer off later. Just a small amount.

I have paid little for either of my two basses but not bought either new at normal price. So often it is the combination of bass and amp that either works or doesn't for someone's playing. If you have had an instrument for a long time then there is a good chance both your playing style and amp setup are far more tuned to it than a new bass, and it can be hard to give the new one the same 'optimisation'. Didn't take too long with my new six string beast (LTD B 206SM) but it definitely took a concerted effort to tweak how I played for the best results from the bass.

[quote name='Thunderbird' timestamp='1378928224' post='2206712'] I have SERIOUS gas for an Overwater that is for sale on here but an unexpected bill from Mrs T has scuppered that one for now [/quote] Overwater made beautiful stuff. One of the best guitars I've played was an Overwater as well as the awesome basses. Real quality. I really want a Fender Pro 210 & HF amp, just got something I like about it, and a lack of size in comparison to what I have. http://www.gak.co.uk/en/fender-tb-600c-combo/57121 Ahh heck, not likely soon

It's definitely down to a combination of gear and player. You are right that if you don't play in the store like you play in the band, you are doing yourself a disservice! If you have a jazz setup with a small tube amp and fretless bass and give it to Steve Harris, it might not sounds quite like Iron Maiden! There are some limits.

I have an LTD B 206-SM and took it in preference to some more expensive basses, and I'm no metal bass player as a rule. I loved it's neck shape and it's look (actually intended to get a 5 string initially and this is a 6) and when I plugged it in I got a real shock. Far better than expected (used to a Status 4 string and tested basses up to a much higher price recently). I know through neck options are supposed to be better, but this sounded better than the neck-through options I tried, so go figure! This means in my opinion you really MUST try them yourself and plug them in. Supposedly better might not always turn out to be that way to your taste. LTD to ESP sort of is what Squier is to Fender, although LTD go to a much higher price level than Squier and ESP generally start much higher up than Fender so the 'crossover' point is rather different (and I own 2 Fender 6 string guitars, and one ESP Horizon guitar too, so it's not a bias thing).

Most of the Fender offerings at that price are pretty big and bulky, not sure if that's what you really want at home. Sound quite nice, but not the number of options for home fun the Line 6 offers. I actually really like some of the more powerful Fender 2x10+hf combos for sound (open and clean), but they are gigging beasts and not in that price range! Not had a chance to try the PJB briefcase as mentioned above, they sure look nice!

I've played through a Line 6 as mentioned above, and was so impressed for home/studio use. Being a smaller bit of kit, it won't have the type of projection that a large amp will, which causes the bass sound to travel even when you don't want it to! Number of sounds as well, just crazy. If you use a head/cab situation, you could try getting a small cab and use your head. I don't have something separate in terms of cab right now (considering it), but don't use my stage power amp while working in my music area as it has a permanent cooling fan which sounds like I'm running a vacuum cleaner! Great sounding power amp for stage though.

I'd say that one that's matched to the outside of the burst colour would look the best personally. Both my current basses are natural satin finish all over, but a light maple headstock with that body colour might look as awkward as the black one does to me.

I'd definitely keep the Washburn 8-string! You will regret getting rid of something that rare and of such unique sentimental value. Maybe keep the natural looking 4 string too, and learn to keep it in the family.

Well, this was a fun thread to read through, and definitely some people haven't necessarily thought their arguments through. Active is what I have in use currently (6 string LTD and an old English built Status) but love some passives too. Cable length is definitely something you can consider a non-issue with active bases. A big help in some cases. People complaining about active circuits being only 9 volt, will often be people who are also using 9 volt powered pedals!! Square that circle if you can. Never found 9 volts making my good pedals sound lacking. I like my bass sound to 'get out of the way' of the guitar, vocals and keys sounds (much going on) without losing it's place, and the basses I have seem good at that. Some others I have tried struggled more. I didn't pick the basses wanting active specifically, but the basses that do the job I like, do happen to be active. I rarely use much EQ on the bass, just a tweak to the venue sometimes as I can set it while roaming around the place during soundcheck. Yes, I know it changes some with more bodies in there, but I'm more than long enough in the tooth to be able to get a feel for that. If it sounds right doing what you want to do, it is right!

Stephen is dead right there about the top end ring getting reduced by plush surfaces. If you don't use earplugs in a room that reflective, your hearing will soon be toast! We used an old room years ago, and when someone was going to throw out 2 old sofas, we actually put them on their ends in two corners, and it made an amazing difference, especially as one of them was behind the drummer (killing corner reflections from the kit and it's closest surfaces).

I remember selling loads of those old Zoom things when I worked in a shop. Nothing else in their price point when they went to the 505 and 506 models. Any comments about reliability of something plastic being lacking, simply don't bear out the evidence of those who have sold the stuff in large quantities fortunately for those who have them. Zoom was by far the most reliable kit we sold in the shop (and it wasn't a small shop). IN the first 2000 units we sold, we had one come back, and the user had stamped on the jack plug and we re-soldered the socket for them free of charge and told them to be more careful (Zoom 505). More reliable than Boss or any other pedal we sold. Broken plastic pedal? Didn't see one in many thousands of units. Even the Boss volume was plastic at the time and that wasn't cheap. The only issue I had with the old Zoom stuff (given it's price) was guitar distortion - once it was on, you couldn't tell which guitar had been plugged into it! It sounded the same all the time. Great fun for such little money though. Line 6 stuff does compete with some separate pedals, but only the higher end stuff Line 6 really, and it's not that cheap if you don't use many effects at that point!

Amazed how many people would suggest an OD as essential for someone playing in a disco outfit, or maybe they are only really referring to the genre(s) they tend to play. I really like a compressor for the slap side of things, helps the bass be a little more consistent in the mix, sometimes a lot. It's not always dependent on just the bass either, the sounds used by the rest of the band can make control of the bass more critical too. The advice someone gave of using your multiFX to play the material and work out what to get from there can't be beaten IMO, as long as it has all the types of effect required. Sometimes a synth effect of some sort can be quite important if the material has baselines originally done on a keyboard you are playing on bass, and not all synth effects are equal! If you do (like me) use a 5 or 6 string bass, some synth effects really struggle down at the low end (sound odd, or respond slowly), so check them out rather than buy online without playing them yourself.