Twincam

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1478882038' post='3172424'] So if we have a bass that has gone through the machine so that it set up to it's absolute optimum setup with one certain set of strings / neck relief, let's imagine that's 99% perfect. Change the strings or tweak the truss rod and it might drop to 90% perfect. On the other hand a luthier doing everything manually without the precision or calculations offered by the machine would probably be lucky to get to that 90% spot in the first place. Then change the strings or tweak the truss and you might drop to 80%. Your argument against the PLEK process, that changing the strings or relief after the setup result in a sub-optimal setup, surely also applies to the human luthier. If the process the luthier goes through gave better results than the PLEK, why would they not just change their model / algorithm to match whatever a human would do? I suspect it is currently doing a better job than most humans, assuming the brains behind the algorithm have everything correct. [/quote] Indeed I get what your saying but I believe that the results would drop a bit lower for the plek after changing setup. And I honestly don't believe that a plek machine does better than a person. In fact I will put my own fretwork up against a plek machine any day and that is not me being cocky. They are not perfect they can't do details like fret edges or finally polishing like a human hand can. Its like cnc vs hand carved.

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1478875383' post='3172317'] I'm old and dim, but just because a bass has been plek'd to optimum performance, that doesn't mean it's necessarily optimum performance for my (lack of) style/technique? Or am I talking cobblers as usual [/quote] Actually you could ask for it to be pleked to a overall setup that suits you and it probably would be better than any other setup. So yes it could be fully optimised for your style technique level. I would think it could be time consuming to work this out, but deffinetly I could see a advantage in that over traditional setup methods. How much improvement you feel would down to the individual. Some can play a bass no matter what the set up and some are more sensitive in that regard.

I'm glad he lived a relatively long life. Far to many are taken too early. I think its pretty cool he had a bit of a comeback a few years back as well. I remember an interview where he seemed happy about that. A real legend and I never say that lightly.

What 15" inch driver would best suit this small cab. Its 1.6 cubic ft internal volume. And has 2 ports which are 3 inch diameter and 4.5 inches in length. Its an old ashdown combo driver has some slight rubbing. I believe the box was tuned for approx 60hz? The amp gives out no more than 200w 8 ohm. Looking for something cheaper but all driver suggestions welcome.

[quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1478872955' post='3172277'] I suspect that there may be a bit of over-thinking and unnecessary worrying going on...! [/quote] You are probably right there. Anyhow I hope I haven't fallen out with amyone.

[quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1478872955' post='3172277'] I think that there are a number of things here... yes, the settings on the Plek machine will optimise to a particular set of parameters, including string tension and gauge and neck relief. But just to remember, that just because it is optimised to that set up it doesn't mean that it will be unplayable with other set ups such as differences in string brand, gauge and tension. The chances are that it will be a perfectly good, perfectly playable (in fact probably still really really nice) set up which would feel much the same to any player. It just isn't "optimised" to that particular set of parameters. The tolerances which are being considered under the Plek system are tens and hundreds of thousands of an inch so I would question how much that level of optimisation actually matters. The F1 analogy above kinda speaks to this. Yes, Lewis' engine and suspension are built and set up to that kind of engineering tolerance. His suspension settings are tweaked by 100ths of a mm. But that is to obtain a 0.001s advantage over a distance of 2 - 3 miles. In the real world on my car it would be impossible to tell the difference. If the settings on my suspension are 1mm different today compared to yesterday it is still a perfectly good, perfectly fit for purpose driving experience. I suspect that we are talking the same thing with a Plek adjustment. And then there is the question of consumer decisions. Let's look at my string buying habits... 1982-1986 Dean Markley 40-100s, 1986-1988 Albion Strings 40-100, 1988-2006 Bass Centre Stadium Elites 40-100, 2006-2012 Bass Centre Stadium Elites 45-105, 2012-2015 Picato 45-105, 2016-? LA Bella Deep Talkin' Bass flats 760FL 43-104... I think I can safely walk into Charlie Chandlers and get my bass Plek'd without worrying that in six months time I'm going to have moved three different string types away from the optimised set up and that £120 spend on the Pleking will be a lasting investment. If someone is the sort who chops and changes their gauges and brands all the time then they can choose[list=1] [*]not to go for a neck dress that bases the settings around a particular string and gauge or [*]to go for a Plek on their current/new string choice in the full knowledge that if they change to another, a quick truss rod tweak to take account of string tensions will still give then a really nice playing neck even if it's not still "optimised" for those strings. [/list] It's a choice and a pretty benign one when it comes down to it. One of both of my Wals have (I think) been Plek'd in a set up once and (if they were) it was a really nice set up. Or it might have just been a hand stoning and polishing - I can't remember and, frankly in a blind test I doubt I would have noticed a huge difference between the two in a blind test. Add to that, I'm sure that the Plek descriptions (see here for the description at Charlie Chandlers' http://www.guitarexperience.co.uk/plek-setup ) also contain a good deal of marketing guff about how much difference the "optimisation" process makes over a traditional set up. In summary, I suspect that there may be a bit of over-thinking and unnecessary worrying going on...! [/quote] I've just been chatting via pm to chrisb and perhaps I should word posts better and more thoughtfully. Plek will of course allow other strings and setups to be used. And still get better results than a instrument that's not had attention. It might could even work better in some instances. Plek is very clever and I shouldn't of been so strong worded against it. But I still believe that some players could notice it not being as good as a traditional process of setup if they often change setups etc and maybe for some setups it could cause issues. But others wouldn't. I mean we are talking thousands of am inch not large variations. I think plek isn't the be all and end all. As its made out to be.

I must buy some rubbish or have bad luck. I bought an old mag combo which had some noises I thought it was just the pots as it was like a rustling and the pots did crackle when moved but after cleaning them the pots worked great no noises but the background rustling was still there. Then the head broke which was my fault. So I have bought another mag head a slightly different version to use with the combo. It seemed to test fine when I bought it on there cab. But alas the noise is still (a rustling) there when used with my old combo driver. So I'm assuming unless both heads had exactly the same issue its the driver which is kaput. Maybe slight voice coil rub mainly happens on an E but can happen at any volume but mainly higher volume. Any thoughts?

[quote name='thebassist' timestamp='1478863032' post='3172179'] I went on joinmyband a few weeks ago, responded to a few bassist wanted ads, put an advert up myself and it's been a total waste of my time. All discussions went nowhere. I guess people are just bored. [/quote] I had this issue. Even meeting people getting on and talking about the next steps then nothing. Often they were busy with other stuff which I understand but I felt like I was the only one really trying.

I think this is the first month I don't have a noodle in hand.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1478825678' post='3172013'] If you change your strings and have a problem then you adjust the truss rod, bridge, nut and possibly the fret heights as you would no matter who or what last set up your bass. The Plek machine just automates the manual process so there is no difference in the end result between Plek and luthier. You do not understand the Plek process so I'd refrain from calling it a con. [/quote] Actually its you that doesn't understand it. And I'm not trying to fall out with anyone. But I don't think people can see what I mean. There's a difference in what the plek does to a traditional fret level and set up. I will try explain again. What the plek machine does is it performs an analyses of a guitar neck with strings on and calculates what its neck relief should be, it also calculates any high or loelw frets but here is the big DIFFERENCE it then cuts frets to match the path of a certain neck relief to match the strings vibration path if you will. So it doesn't just level the frets the frets along the board are cut at different heights! A bit like how a luthier cuts relief into a double bass. While a luthier sets up the frets with a straight neck and the frets are level to each other. Plek frets if you straightened the neck wouldn't be level to each other as they are cut to match the neck relief it was set up for! Hence when you put on a different string on a plek guitar, you then have an issue with frets been cut to match a different strings vibration arc so even if you change relief unless the strings are the same as the ones its set up for the frets are going to be messed up. And not as optimal as frets that were leveled straight to one another. Does anyone get what I mean? I probably shouldn't of said its a con. I mean that to me unless you use the same strings etc all the time its not as good a solution too a normal standard setup. And people pay extra for what I feel is a slightly flawed process. If you set up a plek machine too level the frets equally when the neck is straight then its exactly the same as standard setup. My issue is with cutting the frets on a neck with a pre determined relief then cutting frets to match a strings vibration. So the frets actually have a banana curve built into them. By the way if I'm proved wrong I'm fully willing to say I was wrong. I'm pretty sure I have this correct if I have to start drawing pics of what I feel the issue is I will.

I need to clarify that I'm talking about plek vs traditional luthiery. Obviously plek will be better than nothing. But outside that imo its a con

[quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1478814774' post='3171939'] Am I missing something? But surely if you have a bass strung with say 90s with a relief at the 12th fret of 0.XX mm and then you switch to 105s or 110s causing your neck to become banana shaped you'd adjust the truss rod to straighten the neck to bring the relief back into the regioin of 0.XX mm. In which case the Plek profiling of the frets still stands? No? Plus what Dad says about how much difference under the fingers a small change in operating tolerances. Just because something is set up to be "ideal" in one configuration it doesn't mean it's utter rubbish the moment that configuration changes at all. It may still be perfectly acceptable at other quite different settings/set ups. [/quote] [quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1478817228' post='3171958'] +1 to this. AFAIK the Plek machine simulates the tension you'd have when the instrument is strung to pitch and the truss rod adjusted to give the correct relief. When I change strings I try to get the relief back to where it was previously. [/quote] Nope! Not all strings are the same tension at pitch. Flatwounds, rounds, tapes all different tension. So you move your relief to the same level and guess what? The new chosen string vibrates more or less, and now you have frets cut at certain heights well your going to be further or closer to the frets when that string starts moving. Its just not an acceptable setup. Unless you use the same strings and relief exactly every time. And too add that not every string manufacture even at the same gauge and the same construction i.e. roundwound, will be the same tension at pitch... Plek ruins versatility if your changing strings

Remeber to clean any previously glued surfaces up with a file. Also when fitting a nut (no matter the nut material) key up (roughen) the mating surfaces of the nut so the glue gets a good bond.

[quote name='Cato' timestamp='1478801020' post='3171789'] As I understand the idea of Plek is to make all the frets completely uniform in terms of height. Which I think is how they are ideally supposed to be. I'm not even sure that the neck is on the guitar when they do it. [/quote] No they cut the frets individually to follow an ideal height for a given neck relief. Which seems great if you only stick to that relief or type of strings with the same tension. Surly if you put on different strings and a different relief then you alter the setup where the frets are going to be out of whack.

Forgive me if I'm wrong and I could be. It seems to me if a guitar has been on the pleck machine the frets have been adjusted to a certain neck relief. But what happens if latter on you want to change string type and/or inevitably change the neck relief. Surley then the frets that have been optimised for a certain relief won't work as well. Am I right in thinking that? Edit this is about plek vs a traditional fret level. Not plek vs nothing

[quote name='synthaside' timestamp='1478793232' post='3171699'] The buzz is very bad when you fret at first or second on E , It seems to be making contract around 5th fret on the E and a little lower on the other strings If you play very cautiously on the A ,D or G you can get away with it but if you relax or get into it.... it wants to buzz and because the bass has an F hole you notice it . ( I imagine with a set of rounds it would be much much worse) I didn't think I liked a Super high action , but perhaps a little higher than average I like to feel like I'm fretting with some positivity . It has a truss rod as its the current headed type Neck but the access is VERY tight to the truss as its recessed deep inside, the bridge saddles are a bit of game too . [/quote] It would seem to indicate the neck relief is too little. Buzzing on frets 1-7 typically indicates you need more relief. Once you have a little more relief you can normally lower the bridge saddles to a more normal height. If you hold down the E at the first fret then with your elbow hold down the E at the last frets or where the neck meets the body. There should be some relief (gap) between the top of the 7th fret and the bottom of the E string. A typical business card (not plastic bank card) should just be able to slide in the gap between 7th fret and Underside of the E while you hold down at the first and last frets. A capo makes it easier but its doable using the method stated above. A typical business card is .013 and relief is normally .007 - .015 depending on how hard you play so its in the right range.

Its a shame your not up north as I would of sorted it for you. Does the fret buzz appear on all frets and all strings. Or is it localised? If localised exactly where is the buzzing? Does the model have a truss rod? I know some status models didn't. What sort of action do you normally like on other basses as you should be able to get the same action on the bass regardless of neck material.

When I had a john east pre (uni) when in active mode and the eq was flat or slightly tweaked if you switched to passive the output was the same. Obviously if the eq was significantly boosted going into passive the output would drop. But nowhere near what you describe. The passive output will obviously be lower but it shouldn't be as weak as what your getting.

I don't think there's any reasonably priced alternative as such, unless of course you start talking about modification. If you like the bass and want to improve it then the supertone is worth it. I have one on a epi tbird classic and it is a improvement.

[quote name='thodrik' timestamp='1478357774' post='3168596'] The older I get the less fussy I am in terms of the action of a bass. Most of my basses now have about the same action, but I make allowances to fit each bass as I can't expect to get the same action on my Gibson EB3 as on my Sadowsky. I generally use heavier strings and a much higher action now than I did about ten years ago. I started using the bigger strings to fit the lower tunings, but it also had the knock on effect of making it harder for me to continue 'slapping and popping and double thumbing on really light strings' technique which I l had learned for the sake of learning rather for the sake of actually being interested in that type of playing. I usually have D'addario Balanced Tension 120-50 strings on the 'downtuned' basses and 105-45 D'addarios on the standard tuning ones. I'm not fussy in terms of strings though, I will swap the standard tuning D'addarios for Ernie Ball or Rotosound with no problems. [/quote] An eb3 if long scale should get just the same action as a sadowsky or any other higher end instrument. Any good luthier should be able to get any bass to play excellently given the time. If its the shortscale version then not as applicable as the string tension is different on a shorty.

[quote name='Fisheth' timestamp='1478364256' post='3168664'] It is indeed Merton, you'll find I'm the top comment on it. I'm probably going to do it! [/quote] Its 90 quid so even if not ply then no big deal. Go for it.

[quote name='Fisheth' timestamp='1478363332' post='3168650'] The only thing it says on it is "Made in the UK" Does that mean it is a UK made one? I'm assuming so, but I don't want to be wrong on this. [/quote] Yes

[quote name='Merton' timestamp='1478363104' post='3168646'] My first cab was an old MAG410 with celestion drivers and a ply cab, it was brilliant and I regret selling it because the Trace cabs which took its place weren't nearly as good IMO. If it's an early UK made I think you'll find it IS ply, they were made from 12mm ply before moving out to a China I believe [/quote] The very early UK ones were "better" than the latter blueline equipped ones. If it has the blue cones (sica) drivers its particle board. If its the very early celestion ones it could be ply I suppose. But they did start distinguishing mag from abm cabs with particle or ply as they use or used the same drivers.

[quote name='Fisheth' timestamp='1478358657' post='3168608'] Think I'll pass on this then and continue on to save for the ABM then! [/quote] Well they still are a decent enough cab just they weigh slightly more and probably ain't as durable. But if looked after then not an issue.

[quote name='Fisheth' timestamp='1478357798' post='3168598'] Wait, so these aren't Plywood? [/quote] Not the last time I looked. The abm series gets the ply. The mag doesn't.