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[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1400265401' post='2452495'] OK, perhaps I didn't put that right, so let me put things into perspective. The guitarist in Nancy Johnson plays with a tone at the very phat end of the frequency - so much so that live there appears (to my ears) to be significant crossover from both our instruments. I have tried to go the route of 'owning your frequency', but we always tend to be to differ...I've twiddled with the knobs on his amp (SG/Bugera head and 4x12), but there's s fine line between full on rawk \m/ and AM radio coming out of his set up. If anything, my desired tone (a kind of Geddy Lee/Jean Jacques Burnel grunt/fuzz hybrid), sits in a higher and wider range than the guitar. I can hear everything without issue, but find the guitar muddies a lot of the nuances of my technique/sounds. Incidentally, the official technical spec of the cabinets (Hartke Hydrive 1x15 and 4x10 enclosures) gives that the 4x10 potentially delivers 10Hz more low end than the 1x15, which i find a little unfathomable, but I suppose reflects why the 4x10 gets nights out and the 1x15 tends to stay home alone. P [/quote] My observations, I see 2 things here. 1- Your guitarist is playing through a 4x12. Why? A 1x12 should be more than ample for the majority of gigs unless he's playing outdoors with no PA support. 2- It appears like you want to sound like the guitarist & he wants to sound like the bassist. Have you thought about swapping instruments for a song? I hope that didn't come across as having a dig. It most certainly wasn't meant to & as it is, having your bass with a more mid to high tone & the guitar with a bassy tone may work really well & give your band it's sound. At the end of the day, it's how the whole band sounds that is important, & if the audience think you sound great, then that's a good thing. Edited to say, I prefer 10s. They have a nicer, more aesthetically pleasing curve to the diameter than all other sizes.

That's a nice set up. If I had the funds to get keys, I'd definitely have the Moog & the Gaia. I'm in an electronic band, but I play bass. The keys player has a Mininova, a Tetra & a Virus Snow (& a couple of controller keyboards). No pics for you though.

In my old acoustic band, the guitarist had one. It was called a "Logdrum" or something like that. Plug it in & it gives a low thud. Doesn't sound anything like a kick drum, but it fitted the style of stuff we did.

That's a very tidy wee board you have there.

[quote name='flunkie' timestamp='1399886890' post='2448535'] ... [b]An important point is that this venue has only just started having bands. There are only two power outlets, so we were daisy chaining extension cables. I've heard that LMiii amps have a self-protection cut-out for voltage variations, but I assume that would turn the amp off, rather than leaving the power light on?[/b] Luckily, the band was very understanding, but I don't want it happening again. I have a spare amp (LH500), but really like the LMiii sound and have it well set-up with a VT Character pedal. Does anyone have any ideas how to proceed? I'm not particularly knowledgeable on the technical side of gear and power supply etc. Thanks [/quote] You'll only get so many amps (as in amperes) from 2 power sockets. Your amp isn't getting fed enough power & will cut out. If the venue want to put on bands, they're gonna need some proper power supply before there's a fire due to the 2 supplies being overloaded.

Cheap ones are not very good. Hand muting a cymbal on most kits results in a double hit. My band use an e-kit & an acoustic kit, but as we're an electronica band the e-kit has more advantages than the acoustic one.

If your bass is going through the PA, then he should do the same. If you're using your own rig, he could get his own rig. It really depends on how the PA & backline is spread & how much you want to spend. The DM10 seems a rather good kit.

[quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1399843457' post='2448331'] I will never forget the time a mate of mine, a ridiculously naturally talented guitarist, picked up my Bass for the first time and had a go. A few minutes later he handed it back, shaking the pain out of his hands... "Not as easy as it looks, is it?". I had no idea he even thought it was easy in the first place. [/quote] I had a similar thing from a previous drummer (who played guitar & keys pretty well too). Had an instrument swap & said "How can you play that thing. The strings are like curtain rails & you have to push hard to get a note."

Bass is certainly an easier instrument to get started on, but I found that it progressively gets harder. It's easier to make a solo guitar sound good than it is a solo bass to the untrained ear. There's many can strum a few chords on the guitar & get folk singing along for an entire evening, but if you're not skilled on bass, you try doing that on bass & see how many folk still enjoy it after the 2nd song. I'd encourage your son to learn as many instruments as he can. Get him on keys, strings & brass too if you can, the more he learns, the more of a musician he becomes. I wouldn't discourage him from picking up the bass, he'd probably pick up the guitar again as he gets more comfortable. Alternatively, you could show him some Victor Wooten or Billy Sheehan & ask him if he still thinks is an easy instrument.

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1399807500' post='2447810'] Well the point I'm trying to make (possibly badly) is that if the amp is properly designed then the theoretical extra thermal degradation wont be of any practical consequence to the vast majority of users - they are simply sacrificing power output and getting nothing tangible in return. You also have to bear in mind that bass amps are reaping the advances in amp design which is mostly driven by the PA market where its common place to thrash the amps at rated minimum loads at or near maximum power for thousands of hours - most bass amps don't see anywhere near that level of abuse. [/quote] There's plenty of folk who have no trouble, but there's also a fair few who do have failures due to overheating. Look at the Ashdown Superfly or the Ampeg PF500 for 2 prime examples of amps not properly designed to deal with the extra heat.

My Ibby has a little shim in the pocket too. Mines came straight from the factory 20 odd years ago. I reckon it's to align the neck up with the body. They maybe thought it needed a little taken out & discovered that it needed more the other way. With a bass that age, it might be hard to find out if this was done at factory or by someone else. As for price, I've no idea. It's certainly tatty enough to warrant £2k.

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1399770361' post='2447542'] You could say the same about fender basses (which I personally consider to be expensive firewood). Should I be diving into every thread on them and making my views known in the interests of "balance" ? - no, it would merely antagonise happy fender owners, and at the end of the day its down to people to do their own research. [/quote] +1 Couldn't agree more.

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1399769426' post='2447536'] Any decently design amp will probably last many times longer driving its minimum impedance than most owners will ever subject them to so I can pretty much guarantee that being "gentle on amps" is not the engineering reason for designing a non standard impedance cab. The whole point of having standard impedance values is so that amp builders and cab builders can both design their respective components to work to their maximum potential together and in order to do that they both have to assume that the other can do their job properly when running right up to spec. Its no different to say computer components - intel make a chip that runs at x gigahertz and mainboard builders make boards that run the chip at that speed, it would be pointless and confusing for either side to start second guessing the amount of engineering headroom that the other component requires to run reliably. [/quote] I didn't say it was the design reason. I merely said one of the benefits of running 2 12 ohm cabs is that there's less heat going through the components. The Xbox 360 is a good example of heat causing failure. Not once have I said you shouldn't run your amp to the minimum ohms, just that doing so increases the heat.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1399664519' post='2446540'] I'm not a cheerleader in a club.[/quote] What a huge disappointment!

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1399659352' post='2446466'] And yes, you are right, I don't tend to read about the NCD threads if they are featured as they are all pretty samey in the content. My points in this thread have mainly been about the tech elements of impedence and config. [/quote] Isn't its good thing to discuss the tech elements? Though you may already know that info, it's good for those that don't know.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1399642954' post='2446227'] So do the amps. When they catch fire. [/quote]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1399642555' post='2446223'] All right then, you don't get this with Ashdown cabs, do you? Oh, wait... [/quote] See. There's nowt wrong with a good wooly Ashdown cab (keeps you warm in the winter), but people know how to pronounce Ashdown.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1399642280' post='2446216'] ...And vice-versa. I'm not an offended owner - I just don't get why this always happens with Barefaced products. When someone posts a NCD or other thread about Bergantino or Aguilar cabs you don't get this, do you? Why not? [/quote] Because they have silly names that no one knows how to properly pronounce!

I wasn't offended. I don't even own a BF cab (that's not to say that I wouldn't use one). I was merely offering some useful information. & I like the New Cab/Bass/Amp/FX Day threads. They let the OP spread their joy & we get an insight to their opinion of the item & to find out if it's something that we could be interested in.

[quote name='skychaserhigh' timestamp='1399635965' post='2446101'] I'm putting the kettle on again.....by the way , I like my Mondeo , it runs at 4 ohms all day long.... [/quote] I hoe you've bought a decent lead for your kettle! http://basschat.co.uk/topic/236062-theyre-havin-a-laff/

Have you thought about taking a non jazz song to jam? Something with a really simple structure & riff based is very easy to play about with. Bill Wither's "Use Me" is an example of a great song for doing in different styles. One of my old bands used to jam it in a different style every time we played it & every time we did, it was great fun.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1399631102' post='2446007'] I understand it may mean that your amp isn't running so 'hot', I just don't see why getting less from your amp would mean it is definitely louder than most 8 ohm 2x10s... [/quote] It doesn't, but how loud a thing is has more to do with the driver's parameters such as excursion & SPL & how the cab has been designed & less about the watts & ohms.

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1399630404' post='2445991'] I think you are missing the point. Running a Ferrari fast is not the same as trying to get the same performance out of a Berlingo. If you cripple the performance of the Berlingo, you are going to end up with something very crap. [/quote] Where did the Berlingo come from? Was it towing your Ferrari? Forget cars. Amps are designed to run down to their stated Ωs, but at a risk of increased heat. Yes they have fans, heatsinks & other protective measures, but the laws of physics still apply to it. If someone designs a cab that produces the same db as a good 8Ω cab running from the same amp, but reduces the heat on the amp, why is that a bad thing? Going back to cars. It's like your Ferrari having 5 gears & mine having 6. Going into 6th is going to put less strain on the engine.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1399629386' post='2445972'] That's not really what the amp was built for though, is it? Not running your amp at full tilt thus not straining it isn't something that would attract me into a sale. [/quote] [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1399629988' post='2445981'] Who said anything about redlining it? Shall we just tinker with it and put a sticker on the back saying that it's limited to 50mph instead? [/quote] Just like a Ferrari is built to go fast. The same logic applies... The harder you run something, more wear & tear you put on the parts. The lower the Ω the more current is going through the amp's components. Current = heat & heat reduces the life of the components. They might well last the full time that you have your amp, but if you can get a great sound with plenty of volume* and not have to run the amp as hot, why would that be a bad thing? * "Sound & Volume"... I've never heard one of these cabs, so I can only go on what I've read. For all I know, I might not like the sound.

If you run your Ferrari regularly to the red line, it's not going to last as long as what it would if you keep it below the red line.