drTStingray

@Dad3353 I sincerely hope you're wrong as I'm about to take delivery of a desk from........ you guessed it - Oak Furniture Warehouse 😳 Well it looked nice in the picture!

I played one at the Bass Gallery a few years back, when I was on a what used to be a periodic trawl around shops to see if I could find a Precision I liked. This one was, I think, a 76 bass - the grain was clearly visible through the finish though quite subtle and I'm not sure it would have actually shown up on a photo. It was one of the nicest I've played and looked great. Like you, I was a bit sceptical as I'd never seen one from that era before - I guess they were unpopular at that time (70s) against, for instance natural and sunburst. It was on consignment for a named bassist I recognised at the time - can't remember for the life of me which one! I think they are pretty rare in blonde, and as you've guessed I didn't buy it. Played a couple of Wals that day as well there!!

Yes me too when using a bass with a blend knob - the one I was referring to has coil selector, and I was referring to either all coils selected or the outer single coils (the latter similar to a Jazz, effectively)

I guess it depends on individual taste, but it's basically centred or very slight boost - I do realise the exact frequencies won't be replaced but I'm simply after the most usable sounds (for my taste and to fit the songs). I think I said before, I'm a bit inept in terms of the theory behind what I'm doing and the characteristics im countering!

Although I agree that the initial characteristic is not caused by EQ, the net result is a scooped sound, which may not be wholly appropriate dependent on what our band mates are doing at the same time. As far as I'm concerned a minor tweak of my mid range (on the bass) enhances those scooped out frequencies enough to assist, when and if that's required - and that scooped sound is killer as stated by @FDC484950 I used a 3EQ SR4HH as my main bass for over 10 yrs and got very used to this - it's now either an SR4 Special HH as main bass. To be honest the EQ gets minor tweaks also in the outer single coil setting as well (Fender Jazz area of tone). I guess if I was using a passive bass, I'd have to alter the setting on the amp. My bass is usually on full volume or just below - I've never noticed any variation based on volume - the same sound applies as far as I'm concerned in that setting and very minor EQ tweaks make for an incredibly versatile instrument.

Is that the one Flea uses on his bass instructional video, assisted by Chad Smith on drums. The green one? Is so that quacks like fe*k in his hands, using a 3 band Stingray (on the rest of the video as well)!! 👍 I'd forgotten about DOD. I tend to use the EBS in preference to the Bass Balls - you can see from how battered it is!!

Just to observe that my experience with active two pick up basses covers two types, both with humbuckers. In the example with a pick up blend knob, eg Musicman Bongo, both pick ups are never on full. In the example with a pick up coil selector switch they can both be on, all coils. I don't see the scooped sound that creates as a problem, particularly if you balance the mids slightly back into the sound - far from it, it's a great sound and for slap it's the Mark King type of sound. To my un-theoretical mind, having a pick up near the neck on full will add quite a bass heavy sound to the mix of the two so it seems obvious that would need some compensation with reduced bass EQ (by the user). I also seem to recall reading discussions about this subject and the term phase cancellation between the pick ups was a technical term for the interaction. I may have misremembered that.... Anyhow the main point is I don't view it as an issue and use both pick ups on full (as the OP described) as a general rule, but with a small amount of extra mid range dialled in to compensate for the scoop. I've never played an active Fender Jazz but presumably if it has a three band EQ you can similarly dial in mid range if you feel the need, with both pick ups on full?

I doubt it makes a massive difference - I can't see how Warwick would be building a licensed product not within the agreement of the owner of the name. Warwick is a highly respected name and maker - I presume the whole point for them is making an instrument of this type because they weren't covering that part of the market. As has been observed Warwick Masterbuilt is also highly respected - and so is Sadowski. There are no doubt Warwick fans around the world who would buy a Warwick Masterbuilt Sadowski licensed product (maybe they don't frequent bass forums) who wouldn't buy one of these otherwise, just like there are other people who would only buy an NYC Sadowski at that price. Im sure these guys have it sussed in terms of their business plans - as I said, the only potential issue is this initial QC, which I would be very surprised hasnt been sorted out. Also, do we know how Sadowski NYC prices have been affected by 'worldwide pressures', some of which we're not allowed to mention here?

Can I order a Wal please 👍 I prefer UK built boutique 😂

That's good to hear - I've never met him but have heard similar experiences from others - as I said before I'm pretty sure he will have sorted the issues out. However one thing does strike me with this talk of boat anchors (Warwick), and people being disappointed with the weight of Sadowski by Warwicks that people have got their hands on, I am by no means a Sadowski expert, far from in fact, but I do recall my drooling hours spent looking at the web site that at least some of the NYC basses are chambered, presumably to improve balance and weight whilst still giving the required tone. You are not going to find something similar in comparatively budget line versions. I know many of us on this forum aren't in the first flush of youth - indeed far away from that, but unless we have a medical condition that requires very light basses I do wonder whether we stress too much about this and calling say a 9 to 10 lb bass a boat anchor or similar is somewhat unfair - I would say that back in the late 60s and 70s, the weight of a bass would be the very last thing that would exercise my mind. My original Stingray bought new in the late 70s never occurred to me as heavy and never caused a problem - it just felt like a bass to me (similar in weight to Fenders, Antorias and others of the time) - I no longer have it so I can't tell you if it was 9lbs or 12 lbs!! As I say it didn't really matter.

For me, three high contenders are:- EH Bass Balls EBS Bass IQ Mutron I have two of those which I find fun to use (I've never felt inclined to spend the money on a vintage Mutron, or any effect for that matter) - however the EBS was quite expensive for the time, when I bought it. You can tell how long ago - it was from the Bass Centre when it was a shop!!

In a word, yes - well all of mine certainly do. As others have said a mid control helps to adjust this. On an HH Stingray I tend to run the bass with all EQ flat whereas with the bridge H soloed I would probably boost the bass and treble a little and cut the mid. The tone with the HH selected provides a great slap tone and the finger style sound is also excellent - a fuller sound than the traditional Stingray H sound (although that's selectable at the flick of a switch). I use the HH setting most of the time. I have a Sabre with 2 band EQ - I rarely run it with both Hs selected and usually have the bridge H and one coil of the neck selected - mellows the traditional H sound.

Interesting info in this thread (and those other threads covering the same subject). In terms of organisations gearing up for this IIRC the deal wasn't agreed between UK and EU until Christmas Eve. So until that time all organisations involved had to exert effort on covering both for the deal and no deal scenario and even so the full details of the deal were still not available to organisations required to operate it within 1 weeks time. So the fact it took the politicians nearly 4 yrs to sort out should be put down to brinksmanship on both sides and they should be held responsible for the fallout by the population. Recently it was announced trade between by far our largest trading partner and ourselves and vice versa had reduced by 68% since last year. However several days later it was announced the economy has shrunk the most since the 1700s, and attributed to Coronavirus. It seems the Brexit malarkey is now being shrouded behind the Covid issue. Politicians should be held responsible for their actions (not least that slippery fellow/ring leader who is setting up his own anti Covid restriction party) - these people should clearly not be trusted and ought to be held responsible for many problems. Lets hope the EU export/ import nonsense are sorted over time - and if any members are from N Ireland you seem to have it even worse. Hold the politicians responsible not HMRC and carriers. They've been given very low quality bats and balls to play with!!! 😐

Visually, roasted standard maple v birds eye/flame maple with aged varnish. I would say the maple board Sabre sounds more akin to a rosewood board or perhaps mid way between a rosewood and maple board - as both the Sabre and Stingray have 2 band EQ the only other significant differences are mahogany v ash body, and stainless v nickel frets - so not conclusive at all!!! We really need to hear from someone with a maple board Stingray Special!!

I think your second paragraph is the key here. Presuming they have sorted out the QC of the new range, I see no reason why the brand is devalued - they are great instruments, and make a specific sound which I personally like. Notwithstanding people's personal views of Hans, Roger and any other name you could think of (Sterling, John, etc etc) spring to mind, the brands Warwick and Sadowski remain at the upper echelon of quality instruments and always will be I would guess. One sometimes wonders if FMIC have got this right - faceless Corporation with no names to hurl insults at or take up QC issues - I've no idea how good or bad they are - I've never personally had any need to complain and found their products perfectly good but do remember one of our fellow Basschatters having a truss rod on a newish bass snap for no apparent reason and it took them (FMIC) nigh on twelve months to sort it out - but of course no individuals to bombard on Facebook and the like..... I can forsee some sort of Sadowski in my life at some point regardless 👍😀 I like Roger - as well as having developed an iconic EQ and high quality renditions of classic designs, another reason is, in the blurb which came new with my 1993 Stingray 3 band fretless is a pamphlet and one of the glowing recommendations/ reviews for Musicman basses is by none other than Roger Sadowski!!

I have these on three Musicman basses the oldest of which is from 2014. None exhibit any problems. They all have stainless steel frets so in terms of sound, I can't really tell whether the one of these with a maple board has a different sound resulting from the neck or not - the other two have ebony. However they all sound great. The difference between these and some of the necks mentioned earlier in the thread is they are not finished with poly - they are oil and wax. They all feel sublime to play and that is where the big difference is felt, even between standard maple with oil and wax finish. As mentioned earlier - if you get your nose close to the neck you can smell maple syrup!! Its very subjective but I think they look really good also!

I just wonder how long you would wait and how much you'd actually pay for a new NYC build ordered now, given the worldwide craziness (shipping, Covid etc etc). Warwick Custom Shop does make nice stuff but I'm not entirely sure what parts for these Sadowski by Warwick Custom Shop basses are actually made there - is it the hand assembly and fittings and finish which differ or are the basic parts from NYC stock? Does anyone else remember when the Metros first came out - I think they were £1500 - about the price of a concurrent Stingray - probably mid/late 2000s? I was very tempted but didn't take the plunge - I've played one or two and they're very nice. Yeah I wonder - however the cynic in me does wonder if Roger is gradually exiting from the business and they will eventually just be made by Warwick or from the Far East? I presume the initial quality issues with the Metrolines has now been resolved?

Haha excellent answer. I would have said which is your favourite wardrobe as we all know significant others have the ability to fill them at the same rate employees experience their employer's server space is filled with data causing periodic IT outages!!! But of course it may not have been a trick question - she may just have been interested - a good answer may have been 'I'm not sure which is your favourite' - I'd wager it would have been unlikely to be a sunburst or anything else resembling brown in colour (my experience is other halves have considered these boring - in fact the greatest volume of positive even gushing admiration from the fairer sex in general has been for a dark orange coloured MM Bongo or for a coral red (pink) MM Stingray Classic!!

Absolutely - their prices are more competitive than some as well. We are also 12 months into a global pandemic so people's experiences over the last two decades are interesting but really not an appropriate comparison!!

I presume you must have been threatened with tooth pulling or legal action resulting from extolling the virtue of aftermarket preamps, pick ups and other extraneous "improvement" to stock basses - on the manufacturer's forum - the word cult is also used by people in a derogatory context it seems as it usually means a bunch of people following what the mainstream might consider bizarre, illegal or distasteful principles. Musicman basses have been mainstream since the mid 70s - in fact many people migrated to them in the late 70s from Fender when they'd got bored with their 1950s inspired and somewhat average products - bass guitar had become a thing in its own right rather than a better amplified double bass (which frankly fretted Fender basses were always pretty hopeless at in the 60s say compared with the 60s Brit pop bass of choice EB2 and Rivoli - those using Fenders in the Uk early on did so to emulate US heroes like Buddy Holly or to match guitarists so doing). So this means it's a mainstream cult - hmmm very odd indeed. 🙄🤔 Many guitars are sold to retired blokes many of whom can't even play - however they're more likely to buy a Strat or Les Paul as that's what they saw heroes playing - basses are of a far lower order in comparison - I would doubt there is near the level of hero worship amongst retired people for any bass guitarist (maybe excepting Paul McC) to generate that (apart from actual fans of bass or bass players). That's interesting - thanks for getting that - as I say watch out - I think it highly unlikely this will be the last manufacturer to bump up prices. If I didn't already have my Stingray Specials I might pay slightly less (with discount) for one of the 2021 models - hell im thinking of buying a Wal for upwards of £7k!!! Musicman publicised reduced output a while ago caused by Covid when they explained what is happening with the Stingray Classic basses. The ratio of guitars to bass sold has also reversed over the years - the proportion is majorly in favour of guitars - thus further restricting bass supply - if want to see economically what happens to prices with reduced supply look at fuel - those of us who drive can see immediately what happens when supply (in that case often manipulated by producer organisations) varies. I also think retailers have an impact - it is the case Andertons are selling the exact same spec of high end special edition Musicman bass for 10% more than one of their competitors. At £3k that is a big difference. But ultimately it's supply shortage through Covid/ shipping issues that are driving this IMHO - not a tirade of profiteering against non US bass players by Musicman or anyone else in the supply chain - that would be a conspiracy theory in its own right 😏

This is the sort of stereotyping which gets bass forums like this a bad name amongst musicians. I referred to it earlier in the thread - it seems to something which afflicts some bass guitar forum members. I haven't a clue where people get these notions about who buys what or why - why do you feel the need to stereotype people who happen to like a certain make of instrument in a mocking, semi disrespectful way? In my case and quite a number of other people I know your suggestion is 100% inaccurate. But hey ho you now know so won't have to be inaccurate again! I think you'll find the reduced production has not been singled out purely for the UK, reduced supply (across much of the musical instrument and accessories industry) is a fact of life - it's a global thing. Prices will change accordingly - the Far East is not immune from Covid and other factors either. While you were talking to Lee it would have been interesting to know why his shop is charging £200 more for a BFR Stingray than another shop in the UK was..... raking in the profit would be my guess 😏

Even if prices don't increase (and I would guess they will) it looks like supply will be difficult anyway - I presume the Far East is also affected to some level by all the factors - I know I've seen stories of export difficulties (other industries) owing to shipping problems.

They're probably working part time, maybe with less staff also, and may also be experiencing supply problems - global pandemic as well as other broader issues (shipping etc).

I don't think you'll find this is going to be unique to EBMM - it might sound like I'm being patronising but it's so easy for us to forget there's a global pandemic. It is affecting production the world over. So it appears there are shortages of musical instruments in the US and everywhere else. Also it's not limited to that - my son is into buying guitar effects pedals and tells me he has bought one direct from a US manufacturer - not only is it cheaper even after the carriage/duties but he'll get it 5 months quicker than through someone like Andertons. It's not limited to effects - lots of stuff like parts (valves for instance), unless they're in stock are quoted in months rather than days. So look out folks - I suppose the fact we (or a lot of us) are sat at home either working or not and most certainly not performing music or playing other than at home should be a warning signal all is not well - and hasn't been for nearly a year. Is it not a bit presumptuous and unrealistic to expect the supply chain for this sort of thing (which could hardly be considered a key industry - especially when users can't actually use the stuff properly) not to be affected and possibly for the problem not to continue to deepen - like everything else I think it will be a long while before 'normal service' or anything approaching it will be resumed. This is not just an EBMM thing although that has manifested itself in prices and availability from the Andertons site (availability in the US will, of course, also be affected - in fact the general shortage of instruments in the US was being highlighted on You Tube channels many months ago - I think I saw an example of a Taylor guitar (for demo) given). It's an industry-wide issue (as you would expect in a long running global pandemic).

I'm not taking anything personally but was just a bit annoyed - I mean 328 replies - 7000 odd views on a thread that started by talking about new bass colours and soon morphed into a price increase matter in the UK. Lots of theories and lots and lots of replies from the same people (yes me included - I'm tarred with the same pot and kettle!!). Very nice bass @Eldon Tyrell - love the colour - congratulations. I personally can't get on with the pick ups on those G and L basses so prefer my MM Sabre. Btw FWIW I didn't say everything in this thread was BS by any means - but there appears to be a fundamental problem of some people understanding basic facts. Then we get the Basschat member's who have fixation key words and phrases - 'Sterling Ball', 'EBMM forum' - all we need now is 'John Hall', 'Stingray weak G string', 'Rickenbacker' - let's hope I haven't triggered any relapses here 🤔 And I do agree the prices are eye watering. Btw I'm a member of the Musicman bass forum - it's only a cult in so much any one brand forum is - ever tried one of the one model car forums? As you would expect, people tend to be focussed only on that brand or model otherwise why would they be there? And yes the car ones do round on people being very negative and unhelpful - same everywhere really.