drTStingray

I just wonder how long you would wait and how much you'd actually pay for a new NYC build ordered now, given the worldwide craziness (shipping, Covid etc etc). Warwick Custom Shop does make nice stuff but I'm not entirely sure what parts for these Sadowski by Warwick Custom Shop basses are actually made there - is it the hand assembly and fittings and finish which differ or are the basic parts from NYC stock? Does anyone else remember when the Metros first came out - I think they were £1500 - about the price of a concurrent Stingray - probably mid/late 2000s? I was very tempted but didn't take the plunge - I've played one or two and they're very nice. Yeah I wonder - however the cynic in me does wonder if Roger is gradually exiting from the business and they will eventually just be made by Warwick or from the Far East? I presume the initial quality issues with the Metrolines has now been resolved?

Haha excellent answer. I would have said which is your favourite wardrobe as we all know significant others have the ability to fill them at the same rate employees experience their employer's server space is filled with data causing periodic IT outages!!! But of course it may not have been a trick question - she may just have been interested - a good answer may have been 'I'm not sure which is your favourite' - I'd wager it would have been unlikely to be a sunburst or anything else resembling brown in colour (my experience is other halves have considered these boring - in fact the greatest volume of positive even gushing admiration from the fairer sex in general has been for a dark orange coloured MM Bongo or for a coral red (pink) MM Stingray Classic!!

Absolutely - their prices are more competitive than some as well. We are also 12 months into a global pandemic so people's experiences over the last two decades are interesting but really not an appropriate comparison!!

I presume you must have been threatened with tooth pulling or legal action resulting from extolling the virtue of aftermarket preamps, pick ups and other extraneous "improvement" to stock basses - on the manufacturer's forum - the word cult is also used by people in a derogatory context it seems as it usually means a bunch of people following what the mainstream might consider bizarre, illegal or distasteful principles. Musicman basses have been mainstream since the mid 70s - in fact many people migrated to them in the late 70s from Fender when they'd got bored with their 1950s inspired and somewhat average products - bass guitar had become a thing in its own right rather than a better amplified double bass (which frankly fretted Fender basses were always pretty hopeless at in the 60s say compared with the 60s Brit pop bass of choice EB2 and Rivoli - those using Fenders in the Uk early on did so to emulate US heroes like Buddy Holly or to match guitarists so doing). So this means it's a mainstream cult - hmmm very odd indeed. 🙄🤔 Many guitars are sold to retired blokes many of whom can't even play - however they're more likely to buy a Strat or Les Paul as that's what they saw heroes playing - basses are of a far lower order in comparison - I would doubt there is near the level of hero worship amongst retired people for any bass guitarist (maybe excepting Paul McC) to generate that (apart from actual fans of bass or bass players). That's interesting - thanks for getting that - as I say watch out - I think it highly unlikely this will be the last manufacturer to bump up prices. If I didn't already have my Stingray Specials I might pay slightly less (with discount) for one of the 2021 models - hell im thinking of buying a Wal for upwards of £7k!!! Musicman publicised reduced output a while ago caused by Covid when they explained what is happening with the Stingray Classic basses. The ratio of guitars to bass sold has also reversed over the years - the proportion is majorly in favour of guitars - thus further restricting bass supply - if want to see economically what happens to prices with reduced supply look at fuel - those of us who drive can see immediately what happens when supply (in that case often manipulated by producer organisations) varies. I also think retailers have an impact - it is the case Andertons are selling the exact same spec of high end special edition Musicman bass for 10% more than one of their competitors. At £3k that is a big difference. But ultimately it's supply shortage through Covid/ shipping issues that are driving this IMHO - not a tirade of profiteering against non US bass players by Musicman or anyone else in the supply chain - that would be a conspiracy theory in its own right 😏

This is the sort of stereotyping which gets bass forums like this a bad name amongst musicians. I referred to it earlier in the thread - it seems to something which afflicts some bass guitar forum members. I haven't a clue where people get these notions about who buys what or why - why do you feel the need to stereotype people who happen to like a certain make of instrument in a mocking, semi disrespectful way? In my case and quite a number of other people I know your suggestion is 100% inaccurate. But hey ho you now know so won't have to be inaccurate again! I think you'll find the reduced production has not been singled out purely for the UK, reduced supply (across much of the musical instrument and accessories industry) is a fact of life - it's a global thing. Prices will change accordingly - the Far East is not immune from Covid and other factors either. While you were talking to Lee it would have been interesting to know why his shop is charging £200 more for a BFR Stingray than another shop in the UK was..... raking in the profit would be my guess 😏

Even if prices don't increase (and I would guess they will) it looks like supply will be difficult anyway - I presume the Far East is also affected to some level by all the factors - I know I've seen stories of export difficulties (other industries) owing to shipping problems.

They're probably working part time, maybe with less staff also, and may also be experiencing supply problems - global pandemic as well as other broader issues (shipping etc).

I don't think you'll find this is going to be unique to EBMM - it might sound like I'm being patronising but it's so easy for us to forget there's a global pandemic. It is affecting production the world over. So it appears there are shortages of musical instruments in the US and everywhere else. Also it's not limited to that - my son is into buying guitar effects pedals and tells me he has bought one direct from a US manufacturer - not only is it cheaper even after the carriage/duties but he'll get it 5 months quicker than through someone like Andertons. It's not limited to effects - lots of stuff like parts (valves for instance), unless they're in stock are quoted in months rather than days. So look out folks - I suppose the fact we (or a lot of us) are sat at home either working or not and most certainly not performing music or playing other than at home should be a warning signal all is not well - and hasn't been for nearly a year. Is it not a bit presumptuous and unrealistic to expect the supply chain for this sort of thing (which could hardly be considered a key industry - especially when users can't actually use the stuff properly) not to be affected and possibly for the problem not to continue to deepen - like everything else I think it will be a long while before 'normal service' or anything approaching it will be resumed. This is not just an EBMM thing although that has manifested itself in prices and availability from the Andertons site (availability in the US will, of course, also be affected - in fact the general shortage of instruments in the US was being highlighted on You Tube channels many months ago - I think I saw an example of a Taylor guitar (for demo) given). It's an industry-wide issue (as you would expect in a long running global pandemic).

I'm not taking anything personally but was just a bit annoyed - I mean 328 replies - 7000 odd views on a thread that started by talking about new bass colours and soon morphed into a price increase matter in the UK. Lots of theories and lots and lots of replies from the same people (yes me included - I'm tarred with the same pot and kettle!!). Very nice bass @Eldon Tyrell - love the colour - congratulations. I personally can't get on with the pick ups on those G and L basses so prefer my MM Sabre. Btw FWIW I didn't say everything in this thread was BS by any means - but there appears to be a fundamental problem of some people understanding basic facts. Then we get the Basschat member's who have fixation key words and phrases - 'Sterling Ball', 'EBMM forum' - all we need now is 'John Hall', 'Stingray weak G string', 'Rickenbacker' - let's hope I haven't triggered any relapses here 🤔 And I do agree the prices are eye watering. Btw I'm a member of the Musicman bass forum - it's only a cult in so much any one brand forum is - ever tried one of the one model car forums? As you would expect, people tend to be focussed only on that brand or model otherwise why would they be there? And yes the car ones do round on people being very negative and unhelpful - same everywhere really.

Thank goodness someone talks some sense on this forum - there is so much disinformation and frankly bull*hit in this thread that it's knee deep. For instance what sort of idiot thinks EBMM just bolt machine made bodies and necks together with no human or even craftsman input? A tiny bit of research on the internet would show you how wrong that is. It greatly pisses me off that this forum seems to totally get off on dissing manufacturers like EBMM and Rickenbacker in a big way - what's the more irritating is a great quantity of the input is verging on disinformation. Why haven't the perpetrators of this thread not fu**ed off days ago and bought something that takes their fancy for a price that suits their pocket? It seems the forum is partially stocked with serial moaners and negative people. Yes you do heartily pi*s me off folks - as you probably know I really like these basses and actually sympathise with the price issue - but it doesn't deserve some of the frankly idiotic posts above. Do the moderators not worry about serial disinformation and moaning? It seems not as they permitted a for sale thread entitled toilet seat bass - whoa surely not - Musicman dissing again 🙄🤔 Surprised if the advertising standards authority would respond positively to complaints they might receive about that.....

Agreed - some fascinating stuff in there - I didn't realise the bass has so much flange effect and the Fripp parts are crazy (isolated)!! Excellent.

My SR5sHH was listed as £2450 in April 2018 (when I ordered it). So that's £750 up in just under 3 yrs. There'll be a mark up if the new one is a burst/sparkle and a further one for a matching headstock. You may be better trying to find a used one - @Old Horse Murphy has an SR5s for sale on this site. I too am astonished at the Bongo prices which have been quoted but suggest that people will be hard pressed to find them in stock for sale!!

They're not though are they - you're using clearance sale prices as a comparison which is clearly wrong. Compare the 2021 price with the 2020 retail price - that would be a reasonable comparison - it'll obviously still be a fair jump but not as much as on the distorted basis you've quoted. Those Andertons clearance prices are less than the price some of us paid for the same basses in 2018!! The point about sizes of the relative companies is important. The bigger companies can probably weather some of the more global issues affecting these things for a time better than a smaller company - just look at coffee shops or cafes on High Streets - clearly the like of Starbucks, Costa and McDonald's can survive for a time better than smaller operations. Each company has to set its business model accordingly and change and adapt.

Me too - I also looked a couple of days ago and it has been sold. Andertons still have one but they've always been asking £200-300 more for their's. The sparkle basses seem to have been quite popular judging by the number of them people on forums and elsewhere seem to have. I too like these sparkle colours - already having several basses in natural, sunburst or white (we can't all be the same but I'd never ever consider buying a black bass in a million years - well maybe a pre EB Ray), these are colours my ex wife considers are 'boring' - it has been somewhat spoiling us for Musicman to have offered their Stingray Specials in such a range of colours including sparkles and bright yellow etc etc. People have consistently requested this sort of thing since a group of sparkle colours were produced in the early 2000s (and dropped quite quickly). Anyway, regarding prices, back when I was but a youth (before a number of you were born i would guess) a brand new US Precision in natural (the ONLY valid colour for one in the early 70s) would have set me back £252 - whilst my annual salary was £936 (0.27 of it). If I was a youth now on minimum wage that would equate to £3.5-4.5k dependent on your age and thus minimum wage (40 hrs per week). No wonder the only people playing real Fenders (and Gibsons, and occasionally Rickenbackers) back then were either famous pros or people with very deep pockets - mere mortals played copies of the real thing - in my case an Antoria. So I do wonder whether we are all moaning a little too much here..... or at the very least, unrealistic expectations and in reality higher end US made basses are just moving back to being the luxury items they always were 😀

Ive had TI flats on my strings through body bridge Stingray for a few years - absolutely no problem whatsoever. I wouldn't have thought the Cobalt flats would present a problem - I have them on a fretless Stingray but that is top strung through the bridge. The strings through body bridge on the Stingray increases sustain significantly (with roundwounds) - not sure with flats as they, by their nature are more thumpy and tend to sustain less. Im not surprised Rotos don't advise stringing through the body - I once put some on a Stingray 5 - they had far too high tension for my liking - felt like you needed to be a champion arm wrestler to play the bass - they were soon replaced - a relatively expensive experiment that didn't work....

If it's the one I think you're talking about, they make, well a gazillion more than almost anyone else, and seem to work on a business model that has a vast inventory made in advance and either in stock or in the supply chain - so it takes many months to 'catch up' with reality. Look back at the availability of ash issue - months if not a year before Fender changed what they were doing - they also seem to carry a vast amount of debt as an organisation - perhaps they're subsidising musicians - I somehow doubt it!!! In terms of EBMM it's like trying to compare Ford with Aston Martin or pick your name for a smaller niche manufacturer. EBMM is more on a par with PRS. It seems to me like a hike in all instrument prices is very likely across the board as all catch up with the reality of shipping crises, the B word and most of all Covid. It's certainly happened with cars over the last two years. Getting the thread back on subject, I'm not taken with most of the new colours - one or two appeal to me. However the prices......... maybe I'll place the order for a Wal after all these years 😬

It's worth asking them if they can get one for you (there may be others in the system in the UK). Whilst not an answer for the price of the latest basses I do know that several UK shops had one each of the Champagne sparkle BFR models - there was a range of around £300 in the prices dependent on which shop you bought from - so maybe the retail mark up chosen is a factor as well? As I said before, it will be interesting to see Thomann's prices.

I think the starry nights were pre Stingray Special? The specials are quoted to be at least 1lb lighter than the earlier design, as a result of lightweight tuners and other hardware as well as lightweight swamp ash bodies (until about a year ago for the ash). I don't think I was particularly lucky but my SR4HH and SR5HH specials are around 8lb or slightly under. Whilst sub 8lb earlier Stingrays certainly exist they're more likely to be around 9.5 lbs or slightly more.

You could argue in a similar vein that Fender Team Built CS are not worth the amount they are also, or PRS and any number of other manufacturers - CS is more expensive than this and is really just selected mass built parts with human finishing to an extent. Ive been interested in a Wal build for ages - but I'd be paying over £6500 for that - yes it would be constructed from better materials than a Stingray Special but arguably, the sound is in a similar ball park. Im certainly not a supporter of these high prices but equally I'm trying to be a little more open minded than some people seem to be in this. I also think quite a few people give EBMM a hard time for several diverse reasons. You may wish to see this You Tube covering the supply issue amongst manufacturers. Not sure if the Fender ocean going oil tanker has been affected by this storm yet or if there's still plenty of old stock on the system still to be sold. https://youtu.be/FPCf9t4B98A

These were for US Sub instruments IIRC so would have been given the textured finish (2003-6 period), and would be poplar. Poplar was used for solid colours on Musicman basses in the 90s going over more or less competely to ash in the 2000s. The Steve Morse guitar in blueburst has a poplar body but no doubt with blanks containing more closely matched wood grain (although alder, poplar and basswood don't have as much grain as ash).

They were all lightweight swamp ash until that commodity became relatively unobtanium - they use it on the Joe Dart bass still but that is relatively low volume. This started a year or so back when they dropped the natural ash and one or two other colours on Stingrays - I think they're now using poplar and basswood but there's no reason why that shouldn't still be light.

The reason they stopped using lightweight swamp ash, some time ago, along with other builders is that it's become incredibly scarce. It's nothing to do with increasing profits. The suggestion weights of EBMM basses has generally increased has obviously not been based on any scientific study so some of the conclusions being drawn in this thread are frankly wrong and are disinformation (very popular in the US apparently until recently - it was reported a particular world leader was carrying a 15ft long nose in front of him - preventing him from wearing a Covid mask!!) Something that hasn't been covered in this thread is the supply shortage of instruments and the huge backlog of orders caused by Covid. There's plenty of info about this on You Tube but basically suppliers are having difficulty in obtaining stock in many instances. Those with even a basic knowledge of economics will realise the relationships between supply, demand and price. So before people run off with the ideas that EBMM is a profiteering company providing worse quality products (including a weight increase) look at the broader picture. And as EBMM is a relatively low volume manufacturer which doesn't stock vast inventory, they will clearly be subject to worldwide economic factors earlier than some other manufacturers (whose business model is more volume led). This was true of the ash problem (Fender followed about six months later). The other thing, I'm just curious why, given Andertons seem to be selling older stock of discontinued colours at prices lower than some of us paid 2+ years ago, some of the people moaning about profiteering and the like (in my opinion completely ignoring a raft of facts) haven't rushed out to snap up these relative bargains? Very curious 🤔😬

@Kev I don't know but I suspect that dropped copper Stingray may be from 2018 - when I bought mine (special order) they had a huge stock of new Stingray Specials and although they'd sold about 10 when I bought mine, there were clearly quite a lot of others there. I was hoping they'd reduce the BFR Stingray Special fretlesses as I had my eye on one - last time I looked they'd been taken off sale.... @Eldon Tyrell let's see what Thomann have to say - that will be useful - however bear in mind the shipping crisis is also very much a UK one (as well as worldwide) - people are shipping to Europe to avoid delays and then trucking across (if they can be bothered to trade owing to the Brexit paperwork - and costs).

This is a conclusion you'd reach if you ignore all the other factors referred to in this thread - eg shipping costs increasing by a factor exceeding 500% in some instances - VAT on those increases - people quoting reduced sale price of instruments and even those 20 yrs ago - some accurate prices from 2 yrs ago (and more) are shown in this thread. I suspect that as this has been raised on the EBMM forum and a moderator responded, the company is aware of the issue so hopefully will be considering how to reduce the price of these standard instruments to lower than the BFR specials issued in 2020 (Andertons appear to have them priced higher in some instances) 😕 Theyll need to lower the prices for me to partake - having said that I already have two Stingray Specials so don't really need another, nice though some of those colours are (I don't get the moan a couple of posts up about the colours - I for one was heartily pleased to see such a good colour range 2 yrs ago when EBMM updated the Stingray - fantastic basses by the way 👍).