paul_c2

Playing (and reading music on) fretless is no harder than playing on double bass/cello/viola/violin/trombone/french horn etc, but obviously a step harder than fretted bass. So its worthwhile taking a logical approach to it, for example take a leaf out of double bassists study material and read up on what "1st position" and "2nd position" is, then find some music which is graded to only use (eg) 1st position, then slightly more difficult, then the half positions etc. Break it up too, approach "shifting" as a separate skill to learn. If you perceive yourself as slipping in intonation as a piece goes on, how are you determining this? If you're playing along with others then its simply down to listening to both yourself and the others while playing. If its based on seeing your hand move up and up, then don't be afraid to add tape to the neck, or dots, or whatever to help with getting a solid and consistently accurate hand/finger position.

Found one, took ages!!! In number 1 above, the note is tied apparently to thin air. Its double bass notation (or other bowed string instruments) when playing pizzicato, and means "let the note ring on, don't dampen it". The idea being that the pizzicato sound doesn't sustain in the same way as a bowed note, so it can be left to ring out - obviously on a violin, it doesn't ring much at all; on a double bass it will ring on a bit. So if/when interpreting it on bass guitar, DON'T let it sustain for ever! But be aware of it. (For info, example 2 above is snap pizzicato technique).

[quote name='Higgie' timestamp='1487368993' post='3239427'] I've always interpreted it as somewhere between staccato and full value. You can usually 'feel' where the note should end, to give the next note it's full attack. [/quote] [quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1487372714' post='3239453'] Oo, Priscilla, I've got that show in October, is it any good? Just had the roasting of legally blonde and want every show to be as much of a challenge! Slightly detached means there needs to be a fraction of silence inveteeen the notes. A slight lift of the fretting hand usually creates the desired effect. [/quote] [quote name='The Jaywalker' timestamp='1488108775' post='3245831'] Staccato means that the the note is played short/clipped; the general idea being that its rhythmic value is halved. Detached doesn't mean staccato - that confusion arises because "staccato" is Italian for "detached". HOWEVER, the English performance instruction "detached" simply means the notes sound separately. Imagine a bassine in quarter notes where the notes sustain into each other. Now think of slightly shorter notes where one note ends just before the next one begins. It's a feel thing. It's kind of in the cracks between shorter note value and a rest and playing the full note value. I guess it could be approximated by thinking about playing along with a rock drum pattern kick-snare-kick-kick-snare. Do you play staccato and only sound short notes along with the kick, legato by letting your notes sustain to the next or detached (kind of) by letting notes ring out but muting on the snare hit. [/quote] As above, basically. There's different "amounts" of detached-ness (if that's a word), and over time its been established in classical musical notation as different things. A basic starting point for interpretation is: stacatto (a dot over/under the note): play for 1/2 the time, silence the other half, to produce the detached effect. Detache (line and dot over/under note) play for 3/4 the time, silence for 1/4. Stacatissimo (I think...?), its like a little solid triangle (shaped like a guitar pick) over the note, is an even more detached interpretation eg play 1/4 the time, silence for 3/4 the time. Also worth mentioning is tenuto (line over the note) - play it full length, legato (a slur over different pitched notes), phrase mark (like a breath indication for wind instruments, its like an apostrophe). One weird one you might come across is a note tied to thin air - I'll try find an example.

Viola uses alto clef, which is similar but not the same. They are also expected to know/understand treble clef for the higher bits. Bassoon, trombone, cello and double bass (in an orchestra setting) would normally read bass clef but know tenor clef too. Cello also needs to know treble clef for very high stuff.

A few months ago I changed the strings, to 40-60-80-100. And they're great - in EADG tuning. However I'm finding that more and more of the pieces I'm being asked to play benefit from DADG tuning. And no, I don't want to buy a 5 string bass (well I do, but I don't want to spend money!!!) So I'm finding the .100 gauge 'E' string a bit floppy once its detuned down to D. So I'm thinking of swapping just that one for a slightly thicker - my question is, what's a decent gauge to use which won't be out of place when tuned EAGD, and will sound better in drop D tuning? I am thinking .105 or .110 but I don't want to buy both and then never use one of them (well....use it for 10 mins then find its not right etc) TIA

Sounds good....remember that unlike some other instruments, the bass guitar (and normal guitar) have no real issues playing in any key, because the fretboard is just a uniform bunch of notes....okay Eb and Bb are a little more awkward; and the ones with open strings are a bit easier. For example a pianist hates too many flats or sharps because of the black keys, and a clarinet doesn't like too many either due to needing to use keys instead of regular fingerholes. So, there only thing making playing in (for example) in D# minor more difficult, is your own brainpower. And....you get good at what you practice, so if you deliberately practice sight reading with many sharps or flats, it will eventually become just as approachable as C major.

You don't need a teacher, but it would help and might be quicker than battling to learn it yourself with forum help etc. Don't run before you can walk - try some pieces in the key of C to start with. Before you do so, familiarise yourself with the scale of C major, including the notes lower than C because they're bound to turn up!!) and find some music without accidentals in - you can worry about these later. www.sightreadingfactory.com is a good resource. Then find some stuff in the key of G; then F (ie 1 sharp, then 1 flat). Once again, start off by putting your hand in the position for that scale, then each note will already be underneath your fingers. Then progress to 2 sharps/flats, then 3 sharps/flats, etc etc Much later on, you can also do 4-7 sharps/flats, minor keys (which will probably use the harmonic or melodic minor scale - ie have accidentals) then pieces with other accidentals in chromatic runs or modulations or other notes not found in the original key etc. Also you'll come across pieces where its necessary to change position - there is a skill in itself in being able to sight read pieces where a positional change is needed, and knowing when to do it. There's normally at least 3 different ways a piece can be played, there's a skill in knowing/working out which one is better. But that's for much later on!!

You could write your entire example in tenor clef and it would be a bit neater, although you'd not be thanked for doing so because most people aren't that familiar with it. BUT if its for cello, then the better cello players WILL be familiar with it! "Nobody writes for tenor clef anymore" - is complete bollocks, by the way.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1482415099' post='3200343'] So how do you tell if a song is in C or A minor? And does it matter? [/quote] If you really are reading music, then it doesn't matter as you'll be playing what's written, irrespective of the key its in. Bass will (you'd hope) have a strong role in defining the harmony and be the lowest part, but its not universal. Plenty of other instruments would be playing other harmony parts and their notes would/could correspond with various middle notes of a chord, making it difficult to look at that part alone and suss out the underlying chord(s). Its handy to know the structure of a piece for page turns (ie if you miss it, you can keep going a bit) or for rests.

Where would you get the bridge from?

The key signature indicates which notes are sharp or flat, for example if the key sig is 1 sharp (which should be F#) then all notated Fs in the music, unless they have an accidental in front of them, should be played as F#. If you're reading bass lines then its perfectly possible that the bassline only uses a subset of the notes in the scale (so your question regarding "will the music use all the notes of the scale...." can't be answered yes).

Are the above solutions which cost money, doing anything better than you could do simply by adjusting the volume control knob on the louder bass?

You can learn how to be better at rhythm, so its not an issue (but at the same time you'd need to actually learn rhythm-related stuff, not just pass it by if you're self taught etc). I believe there's certain things which are much harder to learn than others. Playing in time is kinda middle-of-the-road. Perfect pitch, I believe is impossible to learn, if you don't have it naturally then you will never get completely there, although you can learn good relative pitch. Also (unrelated to bass guitar, but relevant in a wider sense) if you can't do the embrochure to certain wind instruments after a reasonable time trying, its possible that you're simply not physically able to play them properly, eg due to mouth shape, teeth, anatomy etc. All told, bass is pretty easy to get started on, although of course you can learn and improve to be a very good musician over time.

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1481379046' post='3191867'] Is that harder than the Pink Oboe? [/quote] Probably started on the pink oboe, but uses a stronger grip/different hand technique.

[quote name='chriswareham' timestamp='1481277328' post='3191106'] There are lots of listings on eBay selling new sousaphones made in India. They look great and are affordable ... but the intonation is almost invariably out and they're really nothing more than a display item rather than a usable instrument. Second hand sousaphones pop up occasionally, sometimes they're for very high fixed prices upwards of £800 but they don't end up selling. Then there are the few at affordable prices or auctions that sell in the £200 to £300 bracket. I missed out on one when was outbid with seconds to go :-( [/quote] [quote name='toneknob' timestamp='1481279495' post='3191116'] Good tip (to avoid that is). Free postage from India? Riiiiight. [/quote] There does seem to be a new trend to offer an even-lower-cost budget instrument such as brass instruments etc from India, which are basically copies of a well-established instrument design but done on a (very small corner-cutting) budget. Which is a shame in a way, but I guess it offers the chance for those who simply couldn't afford anything else, the chance. There's faults which become apparent pretty soon into playing/learning to play, which are probably going to be issues and don't encourage. Sousaphone is a bit of an american trend, it would be more sensible to probably take up something more normal in the UK, for example tuba, euphonium, baritone, trombone etc. This means that once a beginner has gained a little ability, they can join some kind of ensemble and get experience from that. But then it wouldn't be an unusual instrument!

[quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1481278485' post='3191114'] That's a shame, the American Old-Time band I play in doesn't have any guitars and is definitely acoustic, we frequently play gigs with no amplification or PA at all, even for vocals. I think the OP's instinct is right and that it's a bad idea from a marketing point of view to have 'Acoustic' in the name of the band. [/quote] What's the instrumentataion? "Band" could be interpreted in a wider context (like, a concert band or a big band) or a narrower context which assumes drums/bass/guitar(s) and maybe others like keys/piano, maybe extras like sax/trumpet/trombone etc etc I don't think you'd label a symphony orchestra as "acoustic band", for example (taking an extreme example). And I suspect many jazz ensembles don't use the label "acoustic band" even if they are all playing acoustic versions of their instruments.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1481206456' post='3190538'] Hmmmm. [i][b]Some[/b][/i] of them did... [/quote] Only the ones with ears like a gizmo didn't.

Acoustic guitar(s) --> Acoustic band. About 10 minutes after the first acoustic bass guitar prototype was manufactured and tried out, boffins in white coats conceded that it was perfectly allowable to have an electric bass in an otherwise acoustic band.

[quote name='Barking Spiders' timestamp='1481198297' post='3190399'] yes but it doesn't get as many visitors as here [/quote] I don't visit any forums, I use "View New Content" so anything new, shows up.

Is it insured?

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1481032494' post='3189125'] I'd love to be able to read music. I've had a few attempts at it but can't seem to grasp it. I just keep getting angry at the fact that there's 5 lines, 5 gaps, and a bunch of sharps and flats. Why not just have 6 lines and 6 gaps and forget the key signatures?! Wouldn't that be more logical? Anyway, I will have another go when I get some time off I've recently started a 6 piece funk band. Everyone else reads. We're doing some covers and some people bring their "dots". I'm just doing it all by ear as usual. We're all playing in the same key. There doesn't seem to be a problem communicating. I can't actually imagine where a problem would come up? [/quote] The boring fact is that the staff represents the diatonic scale, hence why there is no direct relationship with vertical position and note. [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1481062279' post='3189477'] There's your problem. There are only four gaps. That was easy. [/quote] To think of it as 5 lines and 4 gaps is somewhat incomplete, because there's plenty of notes above and below the staff. For example, every bass guitar can play a low E, which is on the ledger line below the staff. And of course, the bass guitar is a transposing instrument, albeit 1 octave, in most written parts. However there's plenty of situations where you'd be expected to read a part at concert pitch, where most of the notated notes will be below the staff. And of course, anything beyond B below middle C will either be on ledger lines, or if the arranger is feeling particularly thoughful/clever, might have written it on tenor or treble clef.

The advantage is you save approx £240 by not purchasing the Sansamp.

Surely the Boss LS2 operates as an either/or switch, ie it won't blend the two sounds? ETA oh yeah, just looked at one - yes it can mix A+B inputs, I'd imagine this is perfectly safe to then send into an amp or its FX return.

No worries, and I agree that its not the universal solution. Obviously I can only speak for my own personal experiences and situations.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1480879664' post='3187791'] It's not complicated, honestly. If you work in circles where reading is the the norm, I can completely understand why you might think any other approach is a terrible restriction. But it's important to be aware that there are circles where it's not the norm, usually where exactly replicating an existing part isn't the primary goal. That's not to mention folk and roots music, which has survived for years on a mouth-to-ear basis. [/quote] Surely its only "not complicated", if the basslines are not complicated? I freely admit I'm pro-standard notation, for two reasons basically: 1) The burden of remembering basslines/music in my head is lifted - I don't need to be so familiar with the line to have remembered it; but familiar enough to play it well, given the part (as standard notation). For me, the "gap" in standard between sight reading and playing is relatively small. Most musicians can play better than they can read, obviously, but for some the gap is larger than others. Since the typical stuff I play is a couple of steps easier than my ultimate ability, it means I can fairly quickly get "up to speed" and pass off a convincing rendition with minimal practice. More complex stuff, it starts becoming less about the reading and more about the practice/repetition. 2) Its a standard language of communication across (almost) all musicians, so ideas, music, etc can be easily shared amongst musicians who play different instruments. Obviously, reading music is only one part of music theory, but in itself it would help learning about other aspects of music theory.