paul_c2

[quote name='Funky Dunky' timestamp='1476754381' post='3156981'] This has got me thinking - I always thought that, if you use it correctly and tastefully, the volume manipulation technique known as violining (on guitar, a la Yngwie Malmsteen) can be quite cool. I wonder if there's a way to make it sound good on bass? Kinda doubt it, but it's got to be worth experimenting with. [/quote] I used to be able to do it - albeit with a foot pedal. However its not as easy as it looks. The foot coordination is the easy bit, the "rememering to play a note just before its needed" isn't - you effectively have to learn how to play slightly out of time. If you're late playing the note, your foot has increased the volume and you get to hear the attack which you didn't want. I've tried it (on a guitar with one volume, not my bass with two) and just can't do it, I can't pick the note and use my little finger, despite the volume control being ideally positioned right next to the strings. Maybe others can successfully do it, or I could sit down and learn how to do it (with guitar volume control, not a pedal).

"They say" (as in, the guideline for ABRSM and I think Trinity too) is to be able to sightread two grades below the stuff you're playing. I'd advise caution though, since none of the bass guitar grades ask for sightreading so all you can compare it to is double bass (bass guitar is a bit easier due to physical aspects etc). So with that in mind, at least you have an idea of the kind of stuff to seek out for sightreading practice. I know they also like to throw in the tenor and treble clef but I've never seen it on actual music (for bass) I've had put in front of me, mainly because the bass never solos so is never required to go high enough to justify switching clefs. Its different for cello though, it has a bigger range so is likely to encounter tenor clef in real life situations. In fact, if you can't find double bass examples, cello examples make good reading since the parts are often more melodic. I don't think there's much more to it than mainly lots of practice, but also a good knowledge of the likely things you'll encounter such as runs down scales (so....know your scales), apreggios of various kinds and riff style/repeated patterns. This website is useful for music: https://www.sightreadingfactory.com/app?instrument=Bass%20Guitar%20-%20Low%20E%20String although I think its computer-generated, so the tunes can be unmelodic which can prove a bit of a distraction. It also allows customisation of the features encountered, so you can focus on eg rhythm while not worrying about eg distant key signatures.

[quote name='AdamWoodBass' timestamp='1476716876' post='3156587'] I guess good enough so that I could go on a gig and not break into a cold sweat when I have a pad put in-front of me. I'm not looking to be able to read a John Patitucci line off the bat but would be nice to be able to not freak out when I have some Stevie Wonder put in front of me. Not saying that James Jamerson or Nathan Watts bass lines are simple but I guess that's the level or reading I'm looking to get to. [/quote] I'm not familiar with those (well, I know who Stevie Wonder is but he did a lot of different songs.....) do you have examples? I have a bunch of concert band stuff ranging from blindingly simple to about grade 6/7 stuff.

My bass has 2 pickups, each with their own volume control (ie Fender Jazz style). This means that its possible to infinitely mix the two pickups for a variety of sounds, but also means that its not easily possible to "mute" the bass by turning the volume right down. I also have 2 guitars, one of them the tone and volume controls are very useable to alter the tone produced (it has humbuckers), while the other has single coils and there's very little scope for usefully altering the tone using the knobs, although its semi-useful in the 8-10 range of the volume control, below that its not much use. However because they have a single volume control, I'm able to turn them down to 0 as a "mute" control.

What level of music do you want to be able to read/sightread at? I am unsure if its really basic or really advanced stuff. I can help out with a bunch of music to sightread though.

[quote name='AdamWoodBass' timestamp='1476660595' post='3156152'] I guess the general consensus then is that transcribing stuff is a big help in learning to read? [/quote] Its going to be indirectly-related, but I can't really see how its going to be super useful. To learn to read, you want to practice lots. By transcribing, the process of writing out the music would be quite slow. I'm scratching my head why someone with a music degree would struggle with reading music. After all, the main value of standard notation is its a standard, independent of any instrument so the rhythm and pitches aspect should be a non-issue, its just putting the pitches onto the bass guitar which would be the main skill. I know its bass clef (I guess mainly you read treble clef before?) but the adaption isn't that onerous. Did you approach learning bass in a semi-logical way, ie do you know scales, arpeggios, etc?

Also worth mentioning, I believe (sight) reading music to play on bass guitar is a bit of a separate topic. I can never remember the acronym for the lines but the spaces are "All Cows Eat Grass". I started a thread about it because I wanted to improve too, I put a more complex example but the general guidelines and hints are universal, so would apply to simpler stuff.

I have to admit, I'm a bit lazy here. I do it in tab, even though I can fluently read (and write) music, since it 1) indicates what position its played in, which makes a big difference to the sound sometimes and 2) saves time worrying about key signatures, accidentals etc etc. I do make sure I notate the rhythm properly too, sometimes it takes a little working out to convert the rhythm in my head/fingers into notation though. Also I am lazy in that I haven't downloaded/bought any music score yet, I draw lines on a plain sheet of paper. And...worse still....I can't find/haven't bought a ruler, so the lines are all wobbly! So it looks a mess, but its how I do it. My excuse is its "creative" rather than a neat presentation for others. If others were to read it, I'd do it much better. I believe you can download free music staff paper off the internet somewhere and print it out, I should research that and print a few sheets out really.

I'd not do a drop tuning on a "standard" E string down below D, even then you're going to have lower ultimate volume from the E string detuned to D, as you would with the E string at its normal pitch. There's something physically preventing it, I'm not 100% sure but I think the thicker the string, the more space it physically needs to move around to produce an equivalent volume. Also, I bet that although of course all the strings produce overtones etc, your pickups and amp are possibly rolling off the really low frequencies so won't help the situation either. If its just that one string causing issues, then a thicker gauge would help but the problem is you're commiting yourself down a one-way street once you start altering the nut to cope with the thicker string (well, you could replace the nut...etc). If its low notes in general, then a multi-band graphic EQ or parametric EQ pedal could be very useful. May I ask why you specifically need to go down that far? It sounds like you ideally need a 5 string bass. I play a bunch of orchestral stuff, the other guy playing bass (a double bass) doesn't have the facility to detune to low C but plenty of orchestras have some/all double basses which can go down to C (either with an extension or a 5 string double bass). On one piece I'm using drop-D tuning and on any others, I'd simply adapt the bass line to not play below E (or use drop D tuning again if its worth it and fits in with the rest of the piece etc). Also bear in mind that basses (moreso than guitars) have a lot of tension created by the strings and alterations to string tension, tuning, string gauge etc may need a truss rod adjustment (just a tweak).

PS forgot too add, it looks nice and is a good spec (no idea of value - its not met its reserve yet etc) but I prefer the more traditional look of a Jazz bass with a scratchplate etc.

Its traditionally neither, but of course there's tons of variations of both Precision and Jazz out there including Precisions with PJ two pickup configuration, and both without scratchplate etc. For me personally, the offset body shape and the neck profile would define a Jazz (and I think it would need 2 pickups too) and a Precision would need a thicker neck profile and a split single coil pickup at the front, otherwise its a hybrid of some kind or only possesses part of the features of that bass.

Its definitely worth learning the 5 "patterns" you'd play the notes in, during a diatonic scale (ie major scale, natural minor or any of the other modes for that matter). There's a few different variations of how to approach it but the CAGED system is worth looking at and getting to grips with. The other main thing is the "3 notes per string" system. In theory it all transfers to bass too but obviously with the bass having 4 strings, is more simplified/limited, and also for this reason (I feel) scales on the bass guitar don't transfer onto 6 string electric guitar nearly as usefully. CAGED can also be used for pentatonic scales, arpeggios, different chord voicings, etc.

I tried again today and we had a new piece - as in, new for the entire orchestra. It was in Eb with plenty of "dusty end" stuff (high Eb, F etc (ok not quite the really high stuff)) so it made sense to tackle most of the passages in a much higher position than the "normal" frets 1-5 or so. It worked out really well.

You get round it by remembering to go up one fret when you go from the G string to the B string. I guess you could put it into a different tuning, so long as you'll NEVER play chords on it - the reason that EAGDBE tuning is used is a compromise betweeen being able to play a number of different chords, and being able to play lead lines/melodies.

[quote name='deepbass5' timestamp='1476399246' post='3154063'] I play in two big bands now and would advise you to read regular, as it will come easier but sounds as though you may be. My main problem was knowing the bast place to start the piece - where to put my left hand. I had lessons and took along the most troublesome numbers. This was because i tended to leap about the neck and make mistakes always returning below the fifth fret for comfort. Then i realised if i position my hand as if to play the scale of the key i was in most of the notes were falling under my fingers, sounds obvious but it wasn't at the time. so Db start with index finger on Db was the best bet. I play five strings, so no real excuse it has made me play and grow more confident in the middle of the neck. [/quote] I know exactly how you feel, regarding left hand position. One becomes very familiar with putting the hand around frets 1-5 and its echoed in a lot of the music which will have low G, Ab etc which needs that position (on a 4 string) anyway. So, D (above middle C) on the page is a bit of an occasion, and anything higher is "interesting"!! I've sight read - a lot - but a long time ago, its getting back into it which is really providing my brain with a good workout, but its stil enjoyable. And its other aspects such as keeping in time with a conductor especially when the music passage might be a slow or slowly moving one with no well defined beat (no drummer/percussion there), keeping count of many bars of rest or repetitive sections, doing all the repeats right, DC al Coda, DS al Coda, etc etc. Also, I've been used to playing in (effectively) 4/4 at a fairly restricted range of tempos, so different ones like 3/4, 2/4 and very slow (or fast) stuff is new to me too. Regarding scales, I've never really sat down and practiced them on the bass. There's only really been one scale (well, two if you start on the E string or A string) but recently taking up electric guitar has broadened my knowledge of the scales and there's actually (at least) 5 patterns, which can all transfer/be adapted to the bass. And while I've probably been inadvertently playing some of the other patterns anyway, now I'm learning more about them I can fit it all together to make things easier for myself. A couple of the pieces demand low D, a quick flick through shows that low C is sometimes demanded too. The double bass player that sat next to me on Saturday doesn't have an extension so can't do these notes; I am thinking I can do at least one of them with a detune (to DADG) then retune to EADG in a rest (with a decent tuner). But maybe buying a 5 string bass would make a lot of sense, especially if it has other advantages like being able to play some complex runs without needing to shift positions. However I'm still kinda in the mindset that a 4 string can/should be able to do it. And of course....it would mean spending more money on yet another instrument etc!!!

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1476390276' post='3153969'] If there's a key change you'll have a double bar line, then the new key sig. [/quote] Look at the example provided, it goes into G harmonic minor, then later Bb minor. Yes there is no key signature change so its not a notated "key change", instead its written with no key signature (when its clearly not in C major/A minor) and uses accidentals to show the modulation. This is normal, if that modulation/chord/whatever only lasts a few bars - as chords do in this kind of music. It deliberately uses non-diatonic and sometimes distantly-related changes for dramatic effect.

Great, thanks for the tips. I guess its down to 1) Recognising the accidentals quickly enough to see if its just a passing note, or a modulation into another key which could help out with reading it 2) a SOLID knowledge of scales, ie knowing all the positions and all the patterns so you know without thinking too hard, where to place your hand and what notes fall under what fingers, quickly. For example here: [attachment=229816:star wars music extract.jpg] bar 76 is G harmonic minor and bars 126-128 is Bb natural minor, but best done at the 8th fret and shift for the final Bb onto 6th fret E string (or a bit earlier if you want to). The rest is pretty easy.

Basically, another way of saying the above is to remember: don't look at theory as rigid walls that you must stay within. But remember where music theory originated from: people were creating music before understanding music theory. Through trial and error, they created music which sounded "nice". Later, analysts analysed this and created rules, which formed the science of music theory. And potential composers were taught these rules, since observing them provided a shortcut to creating music that sounded "nice". Yes its definitely worth learning some music theory, to 1) save time and 2) give a greater understanding of what's going on, but don't worry too much, if you didn't then you will find out stuff through your own trial and error and that "stuff" is all good knowledge!!

[quote name='danonearth' timestamp='1476309716' post='3153315'] If I am playing in C Major… [/quote] Firstly, there is no right or wrong. But there is nothing stopping you from playing a "wrong" note, or to put it another way, a note not in the diatonic scale. Certain "wrong" notes sound okay, and certain ones sound wrong! [quote name='ambient' timestamp='1476310339' post='3153320'] If you're harmonising a scale [/quote] As above, really. Of course, sometimes it is good to stick to the diatonic scale. [quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1476351245' post='3153477'] But if you want to play a "black" note in a Cmaj progression you can use it as a passing note or as a dissonant harmony note. [/quote] Exactly! Basically, yes you're in a major scale, but don't forget that what [b]defines[/b] a scale as being major, is whether the 3rd is major (ie not minor, not Eb in the scale of C). So, Bb can be present, the scale is still major, but that Bb can be used to make a C7 chord. In fact since it is a tone away from C, instead of a semitone, it can sound quite pleasant compared to a dissonant Cmaj7 chord, and/or B natural. Sometimes the dissonance can be good though, for example it will create tension which can then be resolved to reinforce a cadence, etc etc For those who know their modes, effectively you can use the mixolydian mode instead of the ionian mode. This is what a popular guitar online lesson provider says about 7ths: [quote][b]7th[/b] Adding in the 7th note of the scale ( B natural is pretty nice sounding, and this is the note that will make the chord Cmaj7 - if you were to play a b7 (Bb) it would then make the overall sounds a dominant chord! PLay and listen and you'll hear that it pulls to the root, it's not 'stable' and wants to resolve - meaning it created tension which needs to be released! The major 7th note adds some jazz flavour, where the b7 tends to sound kinda bluesey.[/quote] From: [url="http://www.justinguitar.com/en/SC-160-ChordScalesRelationships.php"]http://www.justingui...lationships.php[/url]

Any tips? I know its a broad subject!!! Also of interest.........how many bassists can confidently read music? If not reading normal (western standard notation) score, what are you doing/reading/writing to communicate how to play things etc? And of those who can read, is it a bit ropey and needs a bit of working out, or confidently? Obviously everyone can play better once they practice a piece and go through it a number of times, but accepting that sight reading is about 2 steps lower than the highest ability one can play at, is it confident? I am finding I'm having music put in front of me now which is harder than I've ever played before, and definitely needs an amount of "working out" to play it properly, although you can have a stab at it running through first time etc. In an ideal non-stressful non-live situation, I could spend a little time and go "oh yeah, that's a run down the G harmonic minor scale, I shall start here and end here" or "looks like Db with all them flats, 5th position shall serve me well" or something like that (I am not 100% sure how the 'positions' are numbered anyway!!!!)

Effectively yes - to convert Eb treble clef to concert pitch bass clef, add 3 flats (or remove 3 sharps etc) to the key signature and then read the treble as if it were bass. Just be aware of accidentals!

[quote name='Earbrass' timestamp='1470740474' post='3108028'] The problem is that checked-in baggage is very often mistreated and not infrequently lost or misdirected, while many instruments are fragile, very valuable and, in the case of professional touring musicians, the tools they use to earn a living. [/quote] Mental note for future: don't allow my playing or "tone" or whatever to rely on a fragile/valuable instrument; rather, develop a technique which works on middle-priced, easily replaceable equipment.

I hate trying things out in guitar shops, but accept its a necessary evil. I'd rather spend hours and hours researching reviews online, then go into a music shop and try it out as a "final check" before buying it.

I'll sign it if someone can show me a double bass or trombone walking itself off the airplane and going down the slide during an emergency evacuation.

I don't understand why someone would order a custom instrument then play it for 2 hours, then sell it? Putting to one side the daftness of the customisations, surely they're personal to the one who ordered it thus you'd order what you want - then use it - and the value/worth would be much less for anyone else.