Marlat

In my experience Sadowsky has a medium feel jazz neck (not as narrow as a 70's Fender) and Hotwire has quite a chunky (ie precision) style jazz neck.

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='503722' date='Jun 2 2009, 12:53 PM']Not even instruments that are built to meet a specific budget? Such as a Warwick Rockbass?[/quote] I'd imagine that Warwick makes a profit on those basses. They may be built to a certain price point, but the cost of production is not the "sole" element of the pricing, its merely one element; profit is another (as is distribution cost, marketing etc). [quote]So if the difference in on stage sound, looks, playability, workmanship and broad purchase cost between an AC, Celinder and Sadowsky is minimal then what else is there left for the consumer bassist to place value in, apart from brand that creates the demand in the first place?[/quote] Perhaps I was misunderstanding you when you said: [quote]Unfortunately there is that aspect to bass pricing these days with the higher brands. Pricing on the base of brand status rather than the production costs of actual instrument is not something I personally agree with ... It's a cunning pricing strategy for a luthier who doesn't want to end up like Chris Celinder or Jon Shuker with waiting lists years long[/quote] I took that to mean you were saying luthiers price based on what they want their brand status to be. My point was that lutheirs generally rpice based on the cost of production + demand and that its the demand that determines the brand status. I assume by brand status you are talking about desirability. I don't think price is what creates desirability, in fact, I'd go as far as saying that its one of the forces working against desirabilty (hence luthiers increase prices to reduce the wait times on their instruments). I'd say its desirability that influences the price. Perhaps you were saying the same thing, but that's not what I took from the words quoted above. I also think you'd be suprised at the low levels of profit on basses like ACs and Sadowskys. As a thought experiment, can you name me a single boutique luthier whos gotten rich because of their boutique bass output only? If you speak with guys like Roger about the actual profit, they make a solid living, but the cost of a Sadowsky isn't just the cost of the materials, its the cost of the rent for his Dumbo based workshop, the 4 staff in his shop etc etc.

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='503692' date='Jun 2 2009, 12:28 PM']Unfortunately there is that aspect to bass pricing these days with the higher brands. Pricing on the base of brand status rather than the production costs of actual instrument is not something I personally agree with because it sets a precedent for other manufacturers and just makes us all the more cynical as consumers. But, given AC are low volume instruments, then let the market decide. We're all free agents and spend our money as we please and someone can appear to be a mug for spending over the odds as much as they can appear to be of good taste. It's a cunning pricing strategy for a luthier who doesn't want to end up like Chris Celinder or Jon Shuker with waiting lists years long.[/quote] I don't believe any instrument is priced solely based on the production costs of the actual instrument. That would be a recipe for failure. FWIW I am not sure that instruments are priced on "brand status" either, but rather their pricing ends up reflecting the markets demand for the brand. Fodera should probably charge twice what they currently do because of their 2-3 year wait list. I think any maker with a waiting list of over 1 year is charging too little for their basses. That isn't pricing based on brand status (IMO), that is pricing based on demand. Otherwise you end up in the Fodera situation where the waiting list is unmanagably long and people end up selling "places" in the line for more than the cost of their actual bass when ordered.

[quote name='greyparrot' post='503676' date='Jun 2 2009, 12:19 PM']I think the way you answered that is pretty much how i feel, your paying to be in the club, but another bass will do it! Like you i have a sadowsky (metro), and the tone is better than any botique bass i have heard, and as you say the fender will always cut the gig. I guess really we are talking about ''i have an AC'' what you got?, rather than the bass itself in terms of a working bass. If you say you can get one from the states at under £2500 i think this makes this bass much more sence than to pay the £4000 plus. Having ordered direct from the USA myself last week, the speed at which the deal can be done, and delived, it is not an issue for me anymore to look beyond the uk for the best deal. if this bass was around £2000 i would look to buy it as i have played it. GP.[/quote] I think a lot of the time people forget that you can enjoy things on many different levels. If the only reason to want a car was to get from A to B, we'd all be driving Fiat Panda's or Daiwoos or something. People get emotional attachments to objects beyond merely its function. The reality is that in 75%+ of all the musical applications you are likely to find yourself in, a well setup MIA Fender Jazz 4 or 5 would do the job just fine. Thats great, but I enjoy basses more than just functionally. I like to see the work of amazing lutheirs, ones who are at the forefront of innovation or design. I like to see the subtle changes in tone that can be achieved by different wood or pickup combinations. Would the audience ever be able to notice this either live or recorded? Probably not (unless they were a fellow bass-head), but I don't care. Its for me to enjoy and for me to spend my money on. You don't have to be Michael Schumacher to be able to enjoy a Ferrari. Sure, you might not be able to get to 100% of its potential, but if you can enjoy it and it brings you happiness then its worth it to you. I generally don't get invovled in these "is XYZ worth it" discussions for this very reason. No one can tell you where a bass is worth it to you because no one will know the myriad of things that go into determining the value of a bass for you. AC lets you have a DN fingerboard that is the same species and age as on vintage Fenders, but it costs $1500 extra. Would I pay that? No. That sort of cache isn't what rocks my boat. However, on a bass that I will post pics of soon (after I get it), the cost of the finish alone is more than the cost of a Sadowsky. Some might feel that isn't worth it. That doesn't matter, it's not their money that bought it.

[quote name='greyparrot' post='503636' date='Jun 2 2009, 11:44 AM']HI all, I was reading the review of the AC LG5 in the latest bass mag (while lying in the sun on my hamock!!) And it really is a great review. All the parts are hand made, and the bass is made from old sourced wood. Basically its a modern hand made vintage bass. Priced at £4200 Do you think that this bass can be worth that vast amount of cash? Of course all hand made basses are expensive, but this is really expensive! im also aware that they can be alot more than this as well. I realise that whom ever buys this bass would be paying the maker for the time it took to build, and the build quaslity and woods, but all told, seperate the time from the bass, how much is it really worth?? Im not disputing the price or build quality what so ever, but £1500 would proberbly get you the same standard of bass in terms of sound feel and looks i would have thought? I mean a Sandberg or a sadowsky etc would be just as well made, and sound pretty good, if not as good. Where is all the rest of the cash on this bass? Would you pay it if you had £4300 spare funds? would you buy a real vintage bass for a third of the price over this knowing they will retain their value, and not half the moment you part with the cash? Do basses seem better and more desierable because of their huge price tag? Any boutique basses i have ever owened seem great at first, but after they are just like any other decent bass, and the ding factor seems to take over so it stays at home, and the player comes out to work. GP.[/quote] Its supply and demand. Jimmy Coppolo makes only a small number of highly desirable basses a year and charges what the market will bear. It may not be worth it to you, but it defintely is to Jimmy's customers because there is a 1 year wait for his basses. Sadowsky is the same, but at a marginaly lower price bracket (around $4000USD for Sadowsky vs about $4500 for a AC). £4200 is ridiculous because you can get it directly from the US for less than that. You can pick up a nice used AC on TB for between $3000-3800 that will be in pristine condition. With regard to whether another bass may do the same job? Sure, you can probably find another bass that sounds similar to an AC (or a Sadowsky, or an MTD or a Smith or a Fodera), but if you eally want an AC or [insert brand here], then no "poor man's [insert brand name here]" will do it for you. I have a Sadowsky and an MTD and I haven't found any other basses I could substitute for them in terms of play and feel. A US Fender Jazz is a nice bass and would probably work in 99% of situations 99% as well as my Sadowsky, but its not a Sadowsky and it won't feel the same to me. That is what is important. If its importnat enough to you to have a AC, then there is only one way to get one and that is to pay the market price. That applies for any brand. There is no point asking "where is the extra cost". The extra cost is simply the cost of entry to the club. If you don't see the value in it (however you want to justify that value), then its not the right "club" for you to join. That's cool. For me Alembic and Fodera are clubs I am not keen on joining for that very reason, but I have bought basses that cost just as much. Each to their own.

My babies:

£4000 is a lot to pay for a bass, but thats what a Nordy or Sadowsky or Coppollo is going to cost you if you have one shipped over from the US now with the exchange rate and taxes. I have a couple of Sadowskys (shameless plug - one is for sale in the classifieds) and in terms of the "super jazz", IMO there is nothing better out there, not even close. The only exception (and I say this based on sources I trust) is that if you want a new jazz that has a vintage vibe, go Coppolo. Sadowskys don't do uber vintage, they have their own sound, but its brilliant. If you want a super jazz, don't waste your time with anything else. However, there are plenty of amazing basses out there for that kind of money. My 535 is on my lap as I type this and you could get one for around £4k, but it doesn't do jazz bass at all. Its a completely different sound.

This one's my favourite:

[quote name='Josh' post='253781' date='Aug 3 2008, 04:55 PM']Did you get it imported by any chance man?[/quote] Yeah, I ordered it through The Groove Shoppe in the States and they sent it over.

Yeah, its an MTD 535-21 "Marilyn" model with a chambered alder body. Its also got a wenge neck and a birdseye maple fingerboard which is quite unusual for MTDs, but give you the midrange growl of wenge but without that ultra high end bite that the wenge fingerboard gives you. Awesome bass, there really is nothing out there that sounds as "full" as an MTD Marilyn model, the chambered body is something else.

Here's my baby.

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='249957' date='Jul 28 2008, 09:10 PM']I really like that spalted maple/walnut one (?) of Mark Latimour's, especially with the Norstrand pickups Are the Norstrands very different to the stock Sadowskys, Mark?[/quote] Neither of my Sadowsky bases have stock pickups. The PJ4 (alder/rosewood) has a Nordstrand NP4 and a NJ4SE in the bridge and the Standard 4 (Ash / Spalted maple) has Big Singles. The PJ4 is also strung with Sadowsky flats. The long and short is that the Nordstrand pickups are, IMO amazing and worth every cent. The Big Singles are a real winner if you want a beefed up J bass tone. They really work well with the Sadowsky 2 band preamp to give you that classic J growl, but with the modern active sound that Sadowsky's are known for. The tone is not massively different in the NJ4SE when solo'd, but the Big Singles defintely have more "bark" in the midrange (inherent to most singles), but are just "bigger" ( I guess hotter). I wouldn't hesitate to get them in a J bass. The Sadowsky modern with the big singles sound amazing (I played one in Roger's shop), but he does them in EMG DC45 covers so you can swap them out with the original Sadowsky soaps. Its also worth noting that tonally the two Sadowsky's are very different anyway because of the different configurations of wood and the flats vs rounds. So its hard to do an exact comparison. If I had to do a rock gig, the PJ4 would be my first choice, no doubt. But something requiring more "sizzle" would see the Standard 4 get played. Both of them hve no trouble cutting through - that's what they do best.

I'll play, can't decide between Big Singles or a PJ? Get both: