Coilte

Hi again Grangur, You have a fairly good grasp of basic theory, but you seem to be getting some things confused. I'll go through them briefly in a minute. BTW, I am not a teacher. I have being playing for about six years, and my own knowledge of theory is fairly basic. All I can do is convey what I was taught and what has worked for me. IMO, the very first two words ("practicing scales") on your list could well be the root (pun intended ) of your problem with not being able to invent your own bass lines. Dont get me wrong, it is VERY important to know your scales, but [b]chord tones[/b] are what most bassists play 90% of the time. You are correct, chords are made by using every other note in a scale, i.e. 1,3,5,7 etc. Another way of putting it is "stacking thirds". Let me explain. We will take a major scale, write it out, and stack thirds, working from the bottom up. C Major scale is : CDEFGAB(C ) - Now we will put this at the bottom and work upwards, and begin each line with the third note of the line below it. BCDEFGA GABCDEF EFGABCD CDEFGAB Now.. if we read each line from left to right from the bottom up we have all the diatonic ( this means using only the notes from a given scale) chords from the C major scale. The first line on the left going up, is CEGB which spells the C major 7th chord. The second line from the left is DFAC which is Dm7. Why ? It is the third of a chord that determines whether it is Maj or minor In the Dm chord the interval from D to F is a minor third. An interval is the distance between two notes. Inversions are where the lowest sounding note of a chord is not the root. So C maj is CEG. This is the root inversion. Now if we start on the E, we get EGC which is the first inversion. It is still C maj, but sounds a bit different to the root inversion. I dont want to get you too bogged down in theory for now. I would [b]strongly recommend [/b]that you check out the web site below and spend some time going through the lessons. It explains everything above, as well as lots more, better than I can. Here the web site deals with the importance of chord tones over scales. [url="http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bass-chord-patterns/chord-tones-are-primary/"]http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bass-chord-patterns/chord-tones-are-primary/[/url] Here is the list of lessons, starting with the basics and building, step by step. [url="http://www.studybass.com/study-guide/"]http://www.studybass.com/study-guide/[/url] Perhaps you could give this site a try for a month or two before deciding on a teacher. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me and I will do my best to help you out. Best of luck with it.

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1368881473' post='2082598'] I agree. I know it's abstract, but what I'm aiming for is the stage where making up riffs to go with a band/rhythm all comes naturally to be entertaining... or is this a eutopia that we all dream of but only comes to the few? [/quote] Two points I'd like to make on this. 1. Three years is a comparatively short time to be playing the bass. It is generally accepted that in order to become really proficient on an instrument, it takes in the region of ten thousand hours of focused practice, which brings us onto my second point. 2. The practice itself, i.e. what you actually practice. Can you give us some general idea as to what your practice has consisted of ? For example, are you familar with scales and just as importantly, how chords are derived from them ? Do you know what inversions are ? Do you know why some chords are major, some minor and some diminished etc ? Do you know where all the notes on the fretboard are ? Are you familiar with intervals ? For example with of G major chord, would you know where the sixth of the chord is on the FB ? Apologies all round, if you know these things already. The reason I asked is because learning all of the above will provide the building blocks to be able to make up your own riffs and bass lines. You mentioned about wanting to learn some jazz. Great idea !! Learning basic walking bass lines is one of the best ways to incorporate all of the above points. They are useful not only for jazz but for putting your own lines to other types of music as well. Let me know if I can be of any more help.

[quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1368868231' post='2082375'] The answer is more practice. Predictable as that might be you will have very little progress if you don't put the hours in. [/quote] Absolutely no doubt about that. However there is so much information out there that often, people with the best intentions in the world, simply dont know where to start and how to proceed. This is where a teacher can be of major help, as explained in my post above.

IMO lessons will be of benefit to anyone who takes them and is prepared to put in the practice recommended by the teacher. Some of the main advantages of a teacher versus learning on your own is that a good teacher will assess where you are now and gradually build from there. The problem with learning from say the internet is that there is an overwhelming amount of information out there. So people are inclined to pick lessons that they fancy, at the same time leaving gaps in the learning process. They then find themselves back pedaling because they dont understand something that should have been covered before they got to that stage. The other obvious thing is that a teacher can point out what you are doing wrong. An often forgotten fact about a good teacher is that he/she can keep you motivated. Having said all the above, there are people who can learn quite well on their own, but I have no doubt that progress is faster with a teacher. The ideal thing is to take a set of lessons, maybe five or six. If practice time is scarce, then take them every fortnight to allow for practice in between. Then if you feel so inclined go it alone for a while, having asked the teacher's advice on how to proceed. If you find yourself in a rut or dead end, then get some more lessons to get you on the straight and narrow again. You may notice that I have prefaced the word "teacher" with the word "good" each time. Try to get a teacher whose first and main instrument is bass. IMO, with a teacher who only shows you how to play songs, you will not progress very much. One more thing I'd like to comment on is you remark... "would like to get there faster". "There".. is an abstract idea. Learning an instrument is a process. Be patient, take things in small steps and enjoy the learning process.

[quote name='Chiliwailer' timestamp='1368870129' post='2082416'] Brother, there is no such thing as cheap and good.Please value your ears and buy moulded ones with a decent db drop. [/quote] +1. It always amazes me how people dont mind dishing out lots of money on other "accessories", and neglect to buy, or scrimp on hearing protection.

For gigging I'd prefer to have a back up bass. If I was to cease with gigging then I'd be happy with just one.

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1368778549' post='2081291'] Is the oil on your nose different from the oil anywhere else on your body? Does that mean I gotta pick my nose and rub it on my strings? or is it the outside of ones nose that does the job. I dont have a very oily nose, so does that put me at a disatvantage when cleaning is called for? So many questions, so little time! [/quote] It is the oil on the outside of the nose that we are talking about. I dont think it is a good idea to get too obsessed about oiling and cleaning. Yes, wipe down the body of the bass and the strings after a practice, but IMO there are much more important and interesting things to be explored with regards to bass playing. [quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1368779065' post='2081296'] but... nose oil? Seriously? [/quote] Yes, it is true. It is mainly used as a lubricant. There was a similar type of thread over on TB a while back. Some one posted a video clip of a fairly famous bassist (cant remember his name at present) in action. He was playing very fast, and every so often his plucking fingers would rapidly touch his nose. Thankfully I have never felt the need for this "accessory".

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1368714979' post='2080584'] can i get a link for that goblin jizz please? [/quote] Be aware, it is only to be used on rosewood boards !

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1368710827' post='2080487'] Pretty much any of the proprietary 'guitar cleaners' will do the job, but there are some issues surrounding this whole fingerboard cleaning thing for us to obsess over, should the fancy take us. As it has me, for years. Thing is, we're often asking these products to clean [i]and[/i] (lubricate / finish / shine) at the same time, which is a bit ambitious. It goes without saying that finished maple boards do not require oiling, but you'd be amazed how many people, etc. The so-called lemon oils we buy from guitar outlets are usually 99% petroleum distillates with a tiny bit of scent in there to make us think 'Oooh, lemony fresh!". 'Real' lemon oil - the pure stuff boiled down from real lemons and sold in specialist food sections contains sufficient concentrations of limonene and other stuff as would affect glues, bindings etc, and is not recommended. It will stain unfinished lightwoods a weird yellow and it's also bastard expensive. Bearing this in mind, for myself I avoid anything with claims of lemony-ness. It's considerably cheaper and more effective (if slightly more dangerous) to use naptha (lighter fuel) to clean rosewood boards. Not too much or it soaks in and dries the board out over time. Then a smidge of an organic oil like teak oil, olive oil, almond oil just to give it a sheen. Thing about teak oil is (i) too much can seal the board, inhibiting moisture transfer and (ii) teak-oil soaked rags can spontaneously combust, yikes. Olive oil and almond oil contain a fair amount of water. Apply too much of these oils and the board beneath can get soggy while the oil will seal the top surface inhibiting moisture egress. Bad. Dan Erlewine likes raw linseed oil (not boiled - forms a hard surface) for rw boards. He also recommends spit to clean nitro bodies - ymmv. Personally I'd not want to handle someone else's spitty bass. My own spit, fine. Don't like fast-fret and similar string-lube products because they're usually silicone-based. If you want to get 'difficult to shift' fingerprints over everything it's considerably cheaper to buy a can of silicone lubricant from Halford's for £3.99 and very lightly spray a bit of kitchen roll to apply. Not WD40 because it contains petroleum distillates which dry the board over time. Best and cheapest string lube is the oils in the skin of your nose. Outside of a shark's liver, nose oil has the highest concentration of squalene (the base for watchmakers' oil). It's organic, it's free and you've always got a supply within reach. [/quote] Good post. It always amazes me how big is the diversion of opinions when it comes to oiling the fret board (how often, and what to use). IMO if it is to be one extreme or the other, I'd choose not oiling it at all, as over oiling can cause frets to loosen. The idea of oiling a FB, is a comparatively new phenomenon AFAIK. I am sure there are lots of original basses out there from the 60's and 70's whose fret boards never saw a drop of oil, because it was not the done thing back then. I am also sure that those same fret boards are none the worse off for it. Having said the above, I do oil my FB, but only once every two years or so, and even then, I go very sparingly with the oil.

Yes I wipe down the strings after each practice session. Every now and then I will use a cloth moistened with methylated spirits, making sure to protect the fretboard while doing this. I would like to think it helps to remove at least some build up of oils and dirt from the strings. Also, before I pick up the bass, I always wash my hands. This is just as important in helping to prolong string life.

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1368353477' post='2075918'] Only you can be the judge of that, who else is even caring? [/quote] This is a bit harsh IMO. Strictly speaking this could be the stock answer to every question ever asked by a beginner. The OP asked a genuine question. It does not matter who else cares. He obviously cares enough to ask. That's all that matters. As you went to the bother of posting, you could have been a little more constructive with your answer. I certainly hope that you dont teach.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1368204341' post='2074482'] I'd get out of that habit... sounds like getting the hands into all sorts of nasty positions. [/quote] I agree. Normally I would be of the... "if it works for you and wont cause injury, that's OK"... persuasion. However, the likes of CTS can take maybe years to manifest itself. So what might work for you [b]now,[/b] is going to give you grief further down the line. What the OP describes, does not seem to be the best technique with regard to the long term health of the hands. Better to err on the side of caution and use a tried and trusted technique that is generally accepted as being safe.

[quote name='Graham' timestamp='1368188081' post='2074223'] G&L L2000 is a good option, he can get a used one on here under-budget which will please his dad and it does a whole range of tones [/quote] +1 for the G&L L2000. These are one of the most versatile basses tone wise. The Tributes come with only one neck size (1.75" at the nut and 12" radius). These can be a bit chunky for some, but as he has being using a Squier P, he should be OK. Other G&L's worth considering would be the SB2. This is G&L's version of the precision, which has a jazz width neck. The final option is the G&L JB2, their jazz bass. They are all well made and great value.

[quote name='AntWPF' timestamp='1368129567' post='2073684'] I'm glad you picked up on that, it's something I'm trying to resolve. It's frustrates myself watching me play like that! [/quote] Here are some clips that might help : [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIYuqTsUlyM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIYuqTsUlyM[/url] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPVMBPmrblU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPVMBPmrblU[/url]

My only (intended as constructive ) comment would be to do with your R/H technique. Playing with such a bent wrist whilst resting your forearm on the body of the bass, is a recipe for physical problems further down the line, if not resolved .

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1368014969' post='2072015'] Am I reading this right that you're now wrapping your thumb over the top of the neck? If so, there's your cause I reckon! [/quote] Wrapping the thumb over the neck is very restrictive, but it wont cause pain or injury, as explained in the link I posted in post #2.

[quote name='Machines' timestamp='1367505061' post='2066092'] They are excellent. Very under rated and amazing value for money. [/quote] +1.

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1367403799' post='2065107'] I didn't mean the way he uses his hands - what I mean is the skill of contributing to the song rather then being the focal point of it. That's what I believe is the essence of good bass playing. I watch Jaco and he's usually fret w***ing - like the Vai's and the Satriani's of this world. I'd rather hear a good song well supported than a solo for the sake of showing how good you are. [/quote] I basically agree with your opinions on Jaco. I recognise his talent, but neither his music nor his playing does anything for me. I was addressing your idea of the "proper" role of the bass in music. Perhaps using the physical side of playing was not the best way to do this, though I'm sure you can see my point here also. Let me try another approach. Before Jamerson came along, the bass generally played a supportive role in music. We knew it was there, but it was as much implied or felt, as heard. Jamerson's style and interpretation of charts, changed all this. While the bass was still supporting the music, it was doing so in a much more dynamic way. This was not what was regarded as the "proper" way to play up to then. I am not comparing the two bassists, except to say that they both brought their own unique approach to playing the bass.

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1367392441' post='2064944'] I'm not so dumb that I can't recognise a bass player doing his job properly. [/quote] "Properly" is widely open to interpretation. When the bass guitar first came on the scene, it was fitted with what we call a thumb rest, but was situated below the strings. The idea behind this was that plucking with the thumb was considered the "proper" way to play the bass, and the "thumb rest" was an anchor for the fingers. I am sure that a lot of the techniques we take for granted today, would not have been considered to be "proper" back then. My main point being that the bass guitar is still a comparatively new instrument, and new ways of expressing yourself through it are constantly evolving.

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1367134447' post='2061486'] That's not my problem at all, if anything I'm flattered. My problem is what is a Blues, rock, jazz, folk band. As all of what info I've been provided with is of indie bands IMO of course. [/quote] Fair enough, I see your point now. In that case, all you can do is to ask for as many sample recordings of their material as they can give. If they are a covers band, ask for a set list and look up the songs on You Tube.

[quote name='bassatnight' timestamp='1367068552' post='2060877'] I was essentially trying to put him off as I realized he was a chancer, my point is really people randomly asking about your equipment then asking laughable prices and becoming aggressive when you clearly know what it is you have and it's worth [/quote] No better way to put people off than to ignore/delete the emails. I dont understand why you bother to reply in the first place.

[quote name='bassatnight' timestamp='1367068172' post='2060869'] Has anyone ever had someone mail you about one of your Basses and request a selling price, despite you stating not for sale they keep pressing so you state a price then they state that's far too much and you'll go elsewhere - why ask then I never stated it was for sale!!!! I keep getting mails about my Travis Bean Fretless from Mick Karn wannabees, it took me 10 years to track one down then I am expected to consider a few hundred for it....... Please tell me I am not the only one chaps and chapesses! This is doubley annoying as 1 offering peanuts for an instrument that is very rare and then becoming annoyed that I realise it's worth! [/quote] If you are being asked for a price on something that is not for sale....click the "delete email" button.............sorted !!

I cant see what the problem is. If you get a reply from an unsuitable band, simply reply by saying something like...."thanks, but not the type of music I am looking for". Takes all of ten seconds to type.

[quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1366978962' post='2059765'] It is slightly disturbing that everyone is assuming walking when you say Jazz., Its not necessary for all jazz [/quote] This is a fair point. As was mentioned earlier, the word "Jazz" is just an "umbrella" name for a fairly large selection of music. Generally, I find that unless it is stipulated what type is being discussed, people usually assume (rightly or wrongly) the walking type. Also, when someone is said to be delving into jazz for the first time, either to listen to or play, it is the walking type (again rightly or wrongly) that is generally recommended. To the uninitiated, jazz can be hard to listen to. As the walking standards are the most accessible, this could be the reason why they are the first port of call.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1366956436' post='2059341'] Not much [/quote] Ok, Ok.....you can have the last word on it !!!!