Coilte

[quote name='fumps' timestamp='1371133451' post='2110249'] A bit disappointed I always pictured Bilbo To have a big white beard & travelled around on clouds [/quote] No......that was "Gandalf".

Here are two sites that I have found very useful : [url="http://www.billygreen.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Music%20Theory%20-%20Basic,%20Intermediate,%20Advanced.pdf"]http://www.billygreen.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Music%20Theory%20-%20Basic,%20Intermediate,%20Advanced.pdf[/url] [url="http://www.studybass.com/"]http://www.studybass.com/[/url]

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1371043938' post='2109025'] Bass chords are horrible and should be banned or kept in Spinal Tap tribute acts! [/quote] I think that in this thread, when we say "chords" it is generally accepted that we are talking about arpeggios. At least this is my interpretation. To Hector : I agree entirely.

[quote name='Hector' timestamp='1371031045' post='2108758'] Coilte, both posts make excellent points but are based on the (false) assumption that learning scales somehow stops you learning your chord tones?! [/quote] My knowledge of theory is fairly basic, so I am not really in a position to argue the point either way. All I know is what works for me. Carol Kaye's views on scales are well known, and are not always agreed with. In fairness, the "Study Bass" site does not say that learning scales stops you learning chord tones. It is geared towards beginners and emphasises the fact that while scales are very important to learn ( it would be silly to argue otherwise IMO), chord tones are equally important. Often, beginners claim to "know" their scales. This usually consists of being able to play them backwards, forwards, up, down, around and all over the neck, and this is good. However, ask them how chords are derived from scales, why some chords are major, some minor etc., or can they harmonise the major scale, and their eyes glaze over. IMO, this is the point being made on the "Study Bass" site.

Here is another link on the scales/chords topic : [url="http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bass-chord-patterns/chord-tones-are-primary/"]http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bass-chord-patterns/chord-tones-are-primary/[/url]

Taken from the Carol Kaye web site : [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=2][color=#804000]"Why I teach chordal tones instead of unpractical scales is easy to understand: all music song forms are formed around CHORDS, and the bass player has to know how to funtion in chordal progressions, know what chordal notes to play and how to move them. For decades, I've had so many so-called "scale-trained" students come to me for lessons -- they can play a god-zillion amount of scales yet cannot play a simple chordal song at all. They don't even know a simple jazz blues, can't follow chords with their ears, and have NO IDEA of where their basic chordal notes are, cannot play a simple R35 arpeggio across the neck in *one* position. This belies how terrible those scale-teachers are! Some have even been taking lessons for 2-3 years and could never play ONE TUNE! Astounding and disgusting! I get them to playing a tune first lesson and many are walking good lines in the jazz chords on the blues....in one lesson! How? Simple, I teach them the basics of chordal notes, chordal scales (never note-scales). How chords move and function....and they are both angry and thrilled (angry at their past waste of time and money and thrilled to find out it was NOT THEM! That they did have talent, that they CAN learn!). Most of your bass lines are made up from chordal notes, for all styles, altho' the jazz styles require a more complete line of theory, it's still thinking in *chords*! Jazz improv (and walking lines) use mainly chordal notes with some lead-in chromatics, some b5s on the cyclic chords, and yes, even an occasional scale (rarely tho'!) for connecting the chordal notes. Pianists and trumpet players seem to overdo their jazz improv with a few scales, but if you really listen to the jazz patterns, they are formed from chordal notes, stacked triads, and the pivotal b5 chord substitutes: G7b5b9 (with the b9 replacing G), IS Db7. Db7b5b9 (with the b9 replacing the root) IS G7. No two other chords are like this. Slonimsky wrote a WHOLE BOOK based on this pivot b5 pattern use (and mistakenly named "Thesaurus of Scales"), no, it's not a "scale" book but a book of b5 patterns which even composers like John Williams, etc. Quincy Jones get some of their film screen compositional patterns from. Chordal tones of the pivotal b5 chords![/color][/size][/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=2][color=#804000]Carol"[/color][/size][/font]

[quote name='witterth' timestamp='1370815335' post='2106018'] Playing the Bass isn't that hard but we'll keep that to ourselves just here eh? [/quote] The "Theory and Technique" forum can be scrapped so....

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1370597254' post='2103142'] Best excercise for learning the fretboard I've found is to pick a note, say E then play it on every string (up or down the strings), then pick another and repeat. Start with just one or two notes and add more as you get fluent in the existing ones. Cycle of 5ths ( F C G D A E B F# C# Ab Eb Bb) works well as the note sequence because 1) they are nicely spaced out so you cant use the previous one a reference easily, and 2) its single most important construct in music. When youve mastered this then play the entire cycle on each single string in turn. Forget about stickers / flash cards / software etc [/quote] I agree with this. The only thing I would add, is to say or sing the notes out loud as you play them. It is the ears that need to learn, not the eyes.

I have always been a big Tull fan. However, for me, their first four or five were their best. I was not overly fond of their out put after that. Glenn Cornick has always been one of my favourite bassists. I am surprised that so far, no mention has been made about their very first album...."This Was.." It is the only one that features Mick Abrahms. It is very jazz/blues influenced compared to their later albums. As usual, Cornick is amazing through out. One of my favourite tracks from this album features his lovely walking bass lines on "Serenade to a Cuckoo". [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VRKNKGMXh0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VRKNKGMXh0[/url]

[quote name='louisthebass' timestamp='1370382419' post='2100205'] the most important thing is do what's most comfortable for [b]you[/b] without hurting yourself. [/quote] Strictly speaking, this is good advice. Unfortunately, with the likes of carpel tunnel syndrome, it can take years to manifest itself. So while it may not be hurting you [b]now,[/b] it has the potential to to be a major problem at a later time. Same goes for RSI. It is not called [b]Repetitive [/b]strain injury for nothing. With this, you dont notice pain at the start.

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1370378994' post='2100123'] There are probably no absolutes as we are all different shapes and sizes . [/quote] Fair enough. I was merely try to refute your comment about it being a "no brain-er" to always play with the thumb behind the middle finger, and that playing with the "hitch hiker's" thumb will cause injury.

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1370373815' post='2099996'] ...dont know if you have read [url="http://www.drkertz.com/bassistguide.html"]The bassist's Guide to Injury Management , Prevention and Better Health[/url] - it not, its well worth the investment . The book is by Dr Randall Kertz D.C. a chiropractic physician and also a bassist. Chapter 2 deals with Carpal Tunnel Syndrome amongst other bassist related injuries and problems . It then goes on to explain what you need to do to avoid injury . At Chapter 3 - page 38 to be precise you'll see a photo almost identical to 2 and an explanation as to why the thumb behind the middle finger is the best way to avoid injury!! Its what I have always been taught as a trained classical guitarist and double bassist ( and electric bassist ) and so squares comfortably with personal experience. With authoritative testimonials from Victor Wooten, Steve Bailey, Lemmy , Pino Palladino, Esperanza Spalding ( to name but a few - Dr Kertz has treated them all ) - its an essential read. [b]"How injury occurs and how to minimise it is always an interesting subject to me. Thats why I love the idea of this book and am honoured to be part of it. Thank you Dr Kertz" [/b]- Victor Wooten [/quote] No, I have not read the book, so have no idea of the explanation given as to why he endorses this technique. On the subject of famous bassists and where they place (and dont..) their thumb. Here is one who could be considered famous, and who was playing bass when the likes of Wooten was still in nappies. Take a look at his fretting hand thumb. Decades of playing this way does not seem to have done him any harm. Another famous bassist, a certain Mr Jack Bruce also has a similar technique. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obFcsEtFIKA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obFcsEtFIKA[/url]

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1370351080' post='2099491'] 110% no brainer - no 2 !! ( 1 is going to limit your ability to play fast, clear notes, and is a guaranteed way to get a strain injury ! ) [/quote] IMO it is the other way around. I agree completely that #1 is going to limit your playing ability. However (again IMO) it will not cause injury. In picture #2, the thumb is behind the middle finger. This causes a narrowing of the carpel tunnel, through which the tendons pass. With the tunnel being narrowed like this, the tendons will rub against it, rather than gliding smoothly through it. Over time this can lead to injury problems. The best thing is to simply let the thumb naturally go where it needs or wants to. This clip explains things very well : [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM-rkoy2H8I"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM-rkoy2H8I[/url]

[quote name='kulabula' timestamp='1370107643' post='2096563'] the ibanez has the comfort [/quote] This would be a strong deciding factor to me. A bass that feels comfortable to play, will always trump tone in my book. Besides, there is always the possibility of dialing in the tone you want. I agree that it's a tough dilemma to be in though.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1370090064' post='2096344'] For certain styles of music and certain styles of musicians , flats are very much in vogue at the moment . I've been thinking about getting some myself , and I am very much of the generation that believed the virtual extinction of flatwound bass strings was a mark of social progress . For thirty years they were the bass playing equivalent of flared trousers ( i.e most right - thinking folks thought they would never make a comeback ) but they have achieved the seemingly impossible and become trendy again . [/quote] First time I have ever heard the words "in vogue", "social progress" and "trendy" being used in association with flats.

Thanks for the heads up !!

I cant say that I look intently at either hand.

[quote name='gafbass02' timestamp='1369471655' post='2089516'] I've been playing constantly for over twenty years and am pretty happy with my technique on the whole. [/quote] Fair enough.

I hope you dont mind my giving some unasked for suggestions/comments. They are meant as constructive advice. IMO you need to work on your general R/H technique. Your hand does not seem to be relaxed. It is very jerky and all over the place. Furthermore, the wrist is bent which can be a recipe for physical problems at a later time, if not corrected. There are lots of videos on You Tube about this, IMO the best of which are by Scott Devine. You could try a search.

IMO he should try playing along to songs he likes to get a feel for how the bass "fits into" the song. Even if he does not care too much for blues, it is great music for getting the "feel" and "groove". It is hard to actually teach this. A person has to learn to feel the groove themselves. There are lots of songs on You Tube he could play along to. It is possible to find songs with isolated bass. He can play along to the full instrument version, then try to find the same song without the bass and try his hand at that. Some basic work with a metronome is a good idea to. For example, set the 'nome at a medium tempo, play a note on each click. Then play a note on every second click, then on every third etc. If you search You Tube for "metronome exercises for bass" it should throw up some useful exercises. Here is a great one to start with. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvlI43J72Xc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvlI43J72Xc[/url]

[quote name='tonyquipment' timestamp='1369223509' post='2086459'] Smiley face. I like smiley face. [/quote] To each their own, but with the smiley face the mids are not boosted and the bass is boosted maybe too much, resulting in a muddy tone. A general rule of thumb for a fairly balanced tone is the opposite to a smiley face, i.e. a "frowney" face.

It is showing here in Dublin at present. Went to see it last evening. It is an interesting insight into the legend of the drums. I always knew he was a bad tempered ol' git, but until I saw the film I never realised just how much so. Has anyone else seen the film ?

[quote name='Fozza' timestamp='1369036121' post='2084043'] I can't help with the tab [/quote] Nor can I, but hopefully these chords from "Chordify" will help a little OP. [url="http://chordify.net/chords/suede-animal-nitrate-suedevideo"]http://chordify.net/chords/suede-animal-nitrate-suedevideo[/url]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1368950656' post='2083228'] Just another thought... something else i practice is Root, 3rd, 5th, octave of various chords and playing around the circle of 5ths, taking note of the notes I'm playing, not just playing "the box". Thanks again Rich [/quote] An excellent exercise !!! When you learn about inversions you can do this exercise starting on the 3rd and then the 5th. You can also include the 7th. That You Tube link I posted has you doing this later on in the lessons.

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1368946789' post='2083199'] I'll go back and study the studybass site some more. [/quote] I genuinely think that "Study Bass" is the way to go. Start at the beginning and make sure you understand each lesson before moving on. Perhaps later on, when you have a handle on what we talked about previously, you could check out this (link below) book on walking bass lines. It explains things very simply and comes with a play along CD on which the bass can be isolated if required. It has bass clef too, so you'd be also keeping your reading skills sharpened. However, I'd recommend getting the basics down first with Study Bass, before working on the book. Speaking of walking bass lines, I have also linked another set of lessons from You Tube. I think there are ten in all, and again the good thing is that they start with the basics and build gradually. Best of luck...and happy practicing !! Walking Bass Book : [url="http://www.amazon.com/dp/0786659963"]http://www.amazon.com/dp/0786659963[/url] You Tube Lessons : [url="http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dave+marks+walking+bass+lesson+01&oq=dave+marks&gs_l=youtube.1.0.0l5.6370.10959.0.14033.10.10.0.0.0.0.157.1205.0j10.10.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.VECdhPnZKcM"]http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dave+marks+walking+bass+lesson+01&oq=dave+marks&gs_l=youtube.1.0.0l5.6370.10959.0.14033.10.10.0.0.0.0.157.1205.0j10.10.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.VECdhPnZKcM[/url]