Coilte

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1382366840' post='2251250'] Maybe Coilte your experience of playing in an orchestra is very different to mine ! Form my experience as a keen jazzer and orchestral player, I can tell you theres is no "place to hide" in an orchestra. The deal is often like this ...you arrive at rehearsal , are given music score of a piece by a composer you may have never heard of (let alone the piece), you sit down and play every note and direction perfectly with precision as written. You have to get your fingerings correct, your bow articulation and changes correct and be one quality player so you don't stand out as the 'muppet' who cant play. You cant get away with Miles Davis concept that you are only half a note away from being in tune ! I love playing Jazz - but its a very different form of musicianship where you are in control of the decisions you make , what you play and how it feels. I couldnt begin to suggest that Jazzers have better musicianship than classical players ...or visa versa. [/quote] Fair enough. I accept your points, as my opinions are not based on experience of playing in an orchestra, but from similar discussions I have had with friends who do, and who readily admit to being genuinely at a loss when it comes to playing jazz. Perhaps I was being too rash in jumping to definitive conclusions, in that there can be no "one size fits all" rules.

[quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1382365224' post='2251214'] This. We really oughtn't underestimate the skill set of orchestral players, they perform to an astonishingly high level day in day out. [/quote] I am in no way trying to underestimate the skills of the classical player. I fully realise that each type of music has it's own particular required skills. I just think that when it comes to all round musicianship, the jazzer has the slightly upper hand.

[quote name='Bolo' timestamp='1382364545' post='2251199'] Jazz appears to be a field where highly skilled musicians prove to be very poor songwriters. [/quote] They are at different ends of the music spectrum, and set out to express themselves in completely different ways.

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1382362354' post='2251161'] I'm not confident that I understand this text, but whatever you may mean, IME: - most classical players stink at jazz, and are mostly very aware of this. - most jazz players stink at playing classical, whilst thinking they do a good job. No time to go into detail right now. [/quote] Basically what I am saying is that while a jazz player might not feel particularly comfortable playing classical music, IMO he would have the musical wherewithall to perform it to a much higher standard than would a classical player trying to perform jazz.

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1382360790' post='2251127'] While the minimum skill and knowledge level to be a useful player is undoubtedly higher, I don't agree that all the best players are jazz players. [/quote] In fairness this is not what he said. "Best" is always a personal matter. I agree with MiltyG in that of all genres, a jazz musician can hold down most other music forms. I doubt that many classical (or other music types) musicians would be efficient at playing say....Mingus, but doubt that a jazz player would have any major problems playing other music forms.

[quote name='tinyd' timestamp='1382359580' post='2251089'] .The other thing that puts people off is the impression of elitism [/quote] I have come across this idea of elitism on a few occasions, but never really understood why people would be put off listening to jazz because of it. If you are interested in listening to a genre, I assume it is not because you want to belong to some elite club, but because you want to explore the music itself, regardless of anything else. If you have a genuine interest and curiosity, then nothing should put you off.

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1382356869' post='2251038'] No, guys, you're still wrong. What I meant when I said it was musical masturbation was that it's all cool and exciting to start with, but then you lose enthusiasm half way through and you start to make mistakes. No? Just me? [/quote] Well, as I mentioned earlier....it takes time to get the hang of it and for it to..... [i]sink in !!! [/i]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1382356078' post='2251010'] Aye, where has he slinked off to anyway? [/quote] He' in a huff because "Moondance" was mentioned in a thread about jazz. Dont we just love MD's smooth flowing walking bass lines ....?

[quote name='mtroun' timestamp='1382355727' post='2250999'] Jazz can be a little confusing to the initiate because it covers such a huge remit of different music. [/quote] Agreed, but everyone has to start somewhere and sometime. Generally the music does not hit you on the first listen, but it can take a while to "get it". After that, you have a lifetime of rewarding listening ahead. Granted, some never "get it"......so be it.

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1382355416' post='2250983'] It's still musical masturbation though [/quote] Yeah, it gives pleasure and gets you all excited !!

[quote name='BurritoBass' timestamp='1382352079' post='2250893'] My Dad reliably informs me this is "the wrong sort of Jazz" though. [/quote] Yeah, some have their own favourite era of jazz and generally regard that as the definitive. Again, it just goes to show how illogical it is to pigeon hole everything under "jazz".

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1382346427' post='2250776'] So 'disliking jazz' must be just to annoy Bilbo . . . [/quote] .....as is the remark made below !!! [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1382301337' post='2250466'] I like Jazz. Moondance is one of my favourite numbers. [/quote]

[quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1382337506' post='2250662'] It's the old problem, "define jazz". Lumping a whole pile of music together as "jazz" and hating it all seems a bit shallow to me, like lumping music from anywhere that isn't the UK together as "World" and tarring it all with the same brush. The fun is in picking through the diversity and finding the bits that you enjoy. Steve [/quote] Excellent points. Using the term "jazz" in a general way is pointless as it covers such a huge spectrum of music. I'm sure if people were asked did they like the music from certain eras in jazz's evolution, they may come to a different opinion then "jazz is widely disliked".

[quote name='Jellyfish' timestamp='1382194976' post='2249155'] You don't really get much from learning theory. [/quote] ..or along the same lines....theory stifles creativity.

Yes. I think lessons are great for keeping you on the straight and narrow and also for motivation. Granted, the more regular, the more beneficial. However, taking one from time to time is money well spent. Have you considered lessons via skype ? If time is precious, then you save by not having to travel.

The electric bass is still a comparatively young instrument and is still evolving. If people accepted the "norm" then we would never move from a given point. While the whole "bass as lead" thing does nothing for me personally, I dont see why people should be getting upset about others experimenting. After all, did not Jaco experiment by ripping the frets off of his bass. What did that bring us ?

Everyone change to flats..........thread closed !!

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1381323276' post='2237542'] . My point is that [u]I[/u] think a lot of people think it's a complex skill best left to professionals and it's really rather simple. [/quote] Yes, [i]you[/i] think so. Even if people realised how simple it was, they may still prefer to get it done professionaly.

I fail to see the point of this thread. OP, you have the confidence and wherewithal to do a bass set up. Others may be lacking in one or both of the above, so prefer to get their set ups done by someone else. Everyone approaches things in different ways. What's the problem ?????

....and what about the G&L's ?

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1381058223' post='2233758'] Easy! The reason the bass player has his hood up is so you can't see the headphones he's got on that are feeding him a more conventional drum part... [/quote] I was wondering why the heavy coat plus hood up, while the sweat is lashing off of him. Yes, the band itself is good, but I'd much prefer "Aka Moon", who have the same line up of instruments. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjhe365fBFY

I'm an "old school" kind of guy in that I dont like ring tones. I prefer the old, ordinary, boring... "ring ! ring!" If I want to listen to my favourite bassists/music, I have my hi fi, ipod etc.

[quote name='tinyd' timestamp='1380891327' post='2231991'] I like the album a lot, but I have to say that I much prefer Miles' last acoustic stuff that preceded it - the "second great quintet" albums like Miles Smiles have never been bettered by anyone IMO. [/quote] Yes, his early acoustic material was great too, but BB is obviously a completely different animal altogether. Miles' electric period divided his fans and critics alike, but he was never one to stay in the same place for very long...always had to be experimenting. I always used to look forward to a new Miles album coming out, because you'd never really know what to expect. Sometimes you'd be disappointed (maybe one or two albums in my case), but most times not.

[quote name='miles'tone' timestamp='1380869428' post='2231627'] Some of it I like, some of it makes my teeth sweat to be honest. [/quote] Yep !! There is no doubt that BB leaves an impression on everyone who listens to it.......what type of impression, is another thing. I'd see a dentist if I were you !!!