OldGit

I've had pics from the vendor. Under the plate it's very clean. There is some colour fading. The worrying thing there is the wiring looks modern. There's no traditional fluffy wires. There's red and green wires, grey and white modern wires from the pup .... I've asked for more pics .. It still feels not exactly suspect but rather like a bass made up of collected bits. £2k is a tad high for that.

[quote name='urbanx' post='863054' date='Jun 10 2010, 11:01 AM']I guess a lot of this thread boils down to the magical balance of Risk vs Reward. (which is probably why this thread went on to pay-to-play) Risk vs Reward. If you risk lending your gear to someone, you could be rewarded with a great, smoothly run gig, and some new friends. You could also be rewarded with a massive repair bill. I’ve accepted the outlay of £30 for a crap amp, just so crap bands can support us, and we might get more gig’s off this ‘promoter’. My reward? When I jump off the tiny stage, and I’m dancing and rocking out with my a room full of my mates, drenched in sweat and beer. Is that worth a £30 risk? To me it’s priceless. ....(but I’m still not lending my full rig out!)[/quote] Sounds like you have sorted out what you want to do.

Fast approaching bump

[quote name='JTUK' post='862911' date='Jun 10 2010, 09:08 AM']argggggg !! who said anything about lending a bass...??? You do have to question what is in these gigs? As the post above said..if you don't have the kit and can't get it there, wtf is going on and wth are the band going to be/sound like..? Even the school bands round here turn up with ok gear and enough to do the gig. They might have to ask to borrow the P.A but that is about it.[/quote] Oh I think the "lend us yer bass mate" thing is beyond the pale however I think you missed the bit about the gig organiser telling bands not to bring gear as "backline is provided"

[quote name='Shambo' post='862819' date='Jun 10 2010, 12:53 AM']Abrupt as it does sound, OldGit has pretty much nailed the 'pay to play' situation IMV.[/quote] Thanks. I get a bit abrupt about this because sometimes that works to shake people out of Fairyland where promotors actually promote bands with poor entertainment value, and zero marketing effort, and those bands get paid a fair fee.

[quote name='D-L-B' post='862628' date='Jun 9 2010, 09:23 PM']Just noticed this Facebook group. [url="http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#!/group.php?gid=161910165438"]People AGAINST Pay to play & Bad Promoters[/url][/quote] Ha ha Oh dear .. See above.

[quote name='johnzgerman' post='862093' date='Jun 9 2010, 02:02 PM']so if you dont take any punters to the gig then you should pay to play to an empty room? that sort of defeats the object of playing live. if you are paying to play then IMO the promoter should be providing an audience for you to play to (which he/she will do if he has an established night that has a good rep for putting reasonable bands on)otherwise why not just have an extra practice that week in your rehersal rooms?[/quote] Moderator Rich has asked us not to go around the pay to play subject again on this thread which is about gear sharing However there's plenty of discussions on this board about it already (use the advanced search) Here's a few [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=80325&view=findpost&p=770227"]"Would you do a gigs for free ?, Why should yo be paid ?"[/url] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=57108&view=findpost&p=565729"]Another pay to play discussion[/url] We can do it all again on another thread specifically started for the purpose if you like. I'm happy to keep repeating the same thing 'til people work out that the pay to play system is really brilliant for a smart band who do a bit of the ol'promotion and improvement stuff.

[quote name='Doddy' post='862037' date='Jun 9 2010, 01:15 PM']I never said it was easy. On your first gigs in a new town,you will invariably play to virtually no one. But,if you do a good job you will get re-booked,and each time you will attract more people than the previous gig. It may take you a while,or it may happen quickly,but it will happen if you are a good band. I know it's do-able,because I've done it myself. I've argued with promoters who have complained that we haven't bought a crowd/sold tickets,but they have still rebooked us after the gig.[/quote] Exactly my point. You got a gig in a new geographical area. It is probably at a venue well known for its QC policy and good promotions. How you actually got that gig in the first place is probably a combination of how you appear in your marketing, communication and online stuff plus you may have a buzz in your own town which has preceded you or been checked by the promoter. If you have done well in good venues in your home town and other trips out the prospective promoter elsewhere will be interested and give you a first gig. Once he's been impressed, along with whomever you play to that time, he will be able to promote you better. The people who saw you will also be helping by asking him when that fabbo band is coming back, telling their mates, watching your gig list, taking a flyer home etc. If the promoter does his job right and you collect the emails etc and make sure the punters know who you are and how to get in touch then next time you'll have more people and so it goes. But ... if you aren't entertaining (and appropriate for the venue/night/crowd) all this is to no avail as, although you may even get paid for one gig you'll almost certainly not get re-booked.

Excellent news mate, have a great time and take loads of pictures and video! We want to see what it looks like from the stage [quote name='Fat Rich' post='862410' date='Jun 9 2010, 05:51 PM']Best post I've read in ages! [/quote] +1 lmao.. I even read extracts out to my long suffering wife

[quote name='Higgie' post='861929' date='Jun 9 2010, 11:25 AM']I use a program called the Amazing Slow Downer. You can slow down recordings keeping the same pitch, you can alter the pitch via semitones or +/- cents for those recordings which are just a few hz out, you can EQ it to try and remove vocals, or bass, or isolate the bass, loop segments over and over to work it out, etc. Really useful program. You get asked to learn a song in a different key? You just load it up, change the pitch up or down by however many semitones you need, and away you go [/quote] This it? [url="http://www.ronimusic.com/amsldowin.htm"]http://www.ronimusic.com/amsldowin.htm[/url]

[quote name='JTUK' post='861908' date='Jun 9 2010, 11:07 AM']I also agree it is relevant but also it is a busted record.[/quote] Sure but people are still being ripped off regularly because they haven't heard the broken record.

[quote name='urbanx' post='861895' date='Jun 9 2010, 10:59 AM']True. Surely the crowd count doen't matter? Or are you just re-iterating that bigger gig's just attract more professional bands with their own gear?[/quote] No. The crowd count is your single most powerful bargaining tool in getting gigs and getting paid, and, to keep the thread on track, not being the gear hire company for the night. No one will be knocking down your door for you to gig because your gear sounds great if you only have a following of 5. You are in this situation because you are afrid that if you say no to the promotor he will not give you any more gigs. Otherwise you'd just sa no and walk away. You are "gagging to gig" and he has the only venue in town. Thus he has power over you and you don't want to upset him because he'll not give you any more gigs. If you had a following of 3000 (or 300) the power would shift and he'd be begging you to come and play (and fill his coffers). Then you could set the agenda and control who uses your backline.

[quote name='Rich' post='861871' date='Jun 9 2010, 10:40 AM']Can we not do the pay-to-play thing here? It's a whole different can of worms to the original subject. It has been covered before so it might be worth searching for and/or resurrecting an old thread.[/quote] Sorry! However.. if you draw a big enough crowd you can then tell the promoter you won't be supplying the backline for everyone as the risk of him then saying "well that's no more gigs for you then sonny" is reduced as he'd be cutting of a decent revenue stream. Thus it is relevant to the OP in an tangential way

[quote name='cheddatom' post='861859' date='Jun 9 2010, 10:28 AM']If there is a "buzz" about a band, i'm sure they can pull the crowds easily, but for a "buzz" don't you need radio support or an army of geeks posting your band all over the web or some other such gimmick?[/quote] Yep. "Gimmicks" like telling people when you are on (by whatever means) and getting other people to tell people how good you are (by whatever means) Same ol' gimmicks that have been around since before the Beatles' grand dads were born.... only now it's a lot easier as we have t'internet, twitter , text, etc. What really helps, though, is being a band people want to come and see more than once. How do you do that? You become entertaining. then you make sure everyone knows when you are playing, well in advance, so they can get a bunch of new people along to see this great band they have found. [SET cracked record ON] It's still the same ol' two pronged attack used by everyone from Bach to Beck via the Beatles, Bowie and Bombay Bicycle Club: 1 be entertaining (whatever passes for that in your genre) 2 tell people when you are playing [ END cracked record]

[quote name='JTUK' post='861853' date='Jun 9 2010, 10:24 AM']A bit harsh ...or maybe not so diplomatic, but this has a ring of truth.[/quote] Sorry. I woke up grumpy .. and she wouldn't make the tea... Oh and I'm always happy to help, Urbanx. PM for a chat about how to change the situation if you like. Objective view and all that ...

Woo, That looks good. Shipping is just $25 too (as most of the shipping cost is included in the £564 BIN) Add about £90 for duty and stuff.

Windows Media Player It's free, it's on all Windows computers. Load your MP3, play it in Windows Media Player Right click on the dark grey bit at the bottom and a contextual menu pops up, choose play and speed. (or via the play menu at the top if it's visible) Bingo ... half speed basslines at the correct pitch. NB: It doesn't work if you just play the track from a CD. You have to rip it as an MP3 first. WMP will do that for you too.

[quote name='HMX' post='861700' date='Jun 9 2010, 12:31 AM']Hey, sorry I haven't responded - forgot to check this thread! Things are good, and I can look at more website work now. I've just finished my six exams so I'm having a bit of a rest then back to work [/quote] Anyone take you up on your kind offer?

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='861719' date='Jun 9 2010, 01:34 AM']In my opinion, and this is just my opinion, and bare in mind my art college background, I used to work for a promoter as a student (a big one, they put on T in the park) and so got paid to see a lot of bands. Now this promoter are big enough they can put on good bands as support acts. No having seen lots of support acts, and then lots of other acts outside this promoter's gigs I have come to the conclusion that a great deal of bands you come across are artistically worthless. Tallentless idiots trying to be something, or have a copied style or image or something. No sense of fun or art, fake rock star moves, a lack of good songs and ultimately not worth listening too, either on CD or live. There are however a great deal of great bands, ranging from kids doing thier first gig to seasoned pros. With a sense of art, of music and doingsomething interesting and then communicating that with their audience. There's too much dross, and too much dross that is prepared to play for free. I developed a number of ways (not foolproof) to spot the dross. - The band are all dressed the same, yet cant play in time together. - Shiney expensive and new gear in small venues. MAtching marshall guitar stacks without a scuff on them. Still half way through their how to play guitar book yet obviously want to show off their 4k PRS - any band with some logo on a bit of card or a banner. just no. - any band who tells you thier myspace address between every song -10 min tuning sessions bectween songs anyway, ive forgotten the point i was trying to make..... oh well oh yeah, if your band is NOT crap. Then other ppl will like you. and then with a bit of creativity, you can make things happen that are interesting. just work out why you are interesting in the first place. its all about the music and the art[/quote] Amen, Brother Luke.

[quote name='urbanx' post='861710' date='Jun 9 2010, 12:54 AM']Oi! I'm professional and entertaining! Well entertaining.... No, it's a good point. I actually think our whole band suffers from this gear problem because of our professionalism. We've all spent more on our gear than our cars, but yes we do play with bands that are young an spend most the eveening pissing about, and expecting gear for free. I'd like to say I was a wippersnaper, or that I don't know better, but I've done over 100 gigs with this band, I'm pushing 30... But seem to be put in this position at nearly EVERY gig! Argh!![/quote] Sorry, this is a bit of a soapbox subject for me. If you were well entertaining* you'd be attracting audiences big enough to play this gig on your own under your own control and making money. *and doing the marketing right. 100 gigs and you are still number three on a four band gig in a place that holds 50 people? .. Mate, you are doing [b]something[/b] seriously wrong.

[quote name='Chest Rockwell' post='861770' date='Jun 9 2010, 08:50 AM']what's a shoot out?? if it's a musical standoff, I just play the dots sounds interesting. Im the kind of pentatonic stoner-rock rambler never been one for overt musicianship but never had a problem picking up a melody/riff/beat, while my more expert guitar counterparts often seem to be the ones who forget when to change, keep time or take forever to learn simple riffs!! I dunno! /threadjack [/quote] Opps sorry thread. Nah, you, me, the amps, practice studio. If yours sounds better than mine I'll buy it

[quote name='mep' post='861547' date='Jun 8 2010, 09:53 PM']+1 on this. We do a lot of covers of covers in our band, especially punk covers. Build me up buttercup, Your'e so vain, 99 red ballons, kids in america, footloose & wonderful world are not the original versions. We have done our own version of Mama Mia (3 piece with no keys), although I had to keep to the original bassline to keep the feel and make sure the ladies dance along.[/quote] Love your version of You're So Vain

[quote name='Doddy' post='861358' date='Jun 8 2010, 07:15 PM']I've done gigs with original bands all over the country and beyond,and have never taken a load of mates with us and have never paid to get on a bill. The gigs are there without you having to supply your own audience, or without putting your hand in your pocket. You're first gig may be quiet,but if you do a good job you will begin to draw more people next time-if you do a good job,there will be a next time despite not drawing a large crowd.[/quote] I suspect you were entertaining and professional though. From previous rounds of this discussion that is a rarity. I doubt you'd be in the OP's situation.

[quote name='Chest Rockwell' post='861448' date='Jun 8 2010, 08:47 PM']er, Cardiff![/quote] ha ha I feel a shoot out may be needed

[quote name='Doddy' post='861335' date='Jun 8 2010, 06:47 PM']What if you are trying to break into a new area? If you are from,say,Manchester and doing a gig in London,why should you have to take a crowd with you? You shouldn't have to drag all of your mates halfway across the country to be able to get paid to do a gig. If it's promoted well,people will start to hear of you and come out.[/quote] Aw comon, Doddy You're a pro and you are not new round here. Do I really have to go over this again? No benefit to the promoter, (ie no draw), no pay. The end. If you drag yourself across the country out of your area to play a gig you are looking for some benefit. Maybe it's a prestigious venue to add to your CV. Maybe they have a good crowd and you hope to build your following from it and go back and do more gigs. Maybe even the A&R man from Tosspot rekkerds drinks there on a Friday or the promoter calls her up and says "hey I had this brilliant money spinning opportunity band in here last night, sign them up" or something. It's promotion for your band. You'd pay a bit for that would you not? If you take no one with you what is in it for the person who puts up the money to pay for you to grace their stage with your stunning presence? (not you personally but the band looking to build a following?) Sure the promoter should do some promotion but... You could do some kind of deal with a local band so they bring all their mates to your gig a long way away and then you take all your mates to their gig that you help promote when they come to you. Or you hire a coach and take a huge noisy bunch of people with you who convince everyone else in the venue that you are the New Gods of Rock and you do a Twitter, Myspace and facebook campaign with your street team or you just live with the fact that someone has to pay for you to play and if it isn't the crowd you draw, it's you. [quote]Urbanx ......So,you've been pressured into buying a new amp for other bands to use in a pay-to-play 'venue' that only holds 50 people?? I think someone is majorly taking the piss out of you. I know that you want to play,but I would get away from these kind of situations pretty sharpish.[/quote] +1