stingrayPete1977

To me even just recording your own album in the basement is performing, once it's being done to entertain someone else be it live or recorded it's a performance and has artistic merit, the worst dross you have ever heard might be a number 1 hit, the fantastic album might never get burnt to a cd. Tricky aint it?

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1472148276' post='3118911'] We don't call my situation living on the breadline over here in the States. There's no shame in being in a bar band or playing bars. I think people have predisposed notions about bar bands. Number 1, a bar band is not the same as a cover band, number 2 we don't only play bars. We get more than our share of the festival and fair business. Playing for a living is not for everyone. Back on topic, volume will always be an issue for those of us in rock bands,cI doubt anyone of us can escape it by quitting and joining another band. If there are guitars your going to have volume issues. Again, not a good reason to quit a band unless there are other issues. Blue [/quote] The bar band has NOTHING to do with it, it is only you mentioning bar bands again, lol,if you were earning ten times as much but had no choice in which gigs to accept because your outgoings were ten times as much too then the weekly situation of living hand to mouth would be the same. I don't want to do gigs with overly loud guitarists, not needing to take every gig, I dont. It is not because I have less passion about playing live it's just because I am lucky to have that option and still be offered enough gigs to keep me busy without doing many free ones, noisy ones, rubbish venues etc, a few slip through of course

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1472155175' post='3119011'] As a qualified musician(are my many music qualifications unquantifiable) and someone who can change a plug. I'd say whether someone enjoys your violin playing or not has no bearing on whether you are a musician or not. [/quote] You are missing my point, you can be a musician either by qualifications or as a recognised performer of music, there are many unqualified musicians who I think most of us would agree are still musicians, an electrician without qualifications is not an electrician even if they are good at it, at best they would be described as 'handy' or something. If you employed an electrician with certain grades and extra certificates for extra associated skills you should get what you pay for, jib rates even try and pin that down whereas a musician is an artist imo, my neighbour loves opera and classical music, I wouldn't enjoy his music collection and he wouldn't enjoy mine, the level of qualifications gained or albums sold have no bearing on the final unquantifiable product do they?

[quote name='Shambo' timestamp='1472151399' post='3118965'] I see lots of straw men in this thread. Doesn't the OP have the right to question what sort of person they are dealing with? Why wouldn't they be allowed to bring attention to the fact they had recently sold said instrument for a lot less than the new owner is asking for it? There's no moral ambiguity I can see in asking the cause of the new higher asking price, but there might be in justifying the new price. Speaking personally, if I noticed that a bass had [i]quickly [/i]returned to the [i]same [/i]marketplace at a [i]higher price[/i], I would be wondering what the new seller could have done to justify the higher asking price. If they'd spent money couriering it, or repairing it, or setting it up, new strings, train fares, flights, overheads, case, whatever, then I'd expect the new seller to mention it and take that into account. It they'd just given it a polish and taken some new photographs, then I'd think carefully whether or not that person would be an acceptable trading partner for me. Even if I really wanted the bass, I suspect I would be inclined not to buy. The new seller has bought nothing to the table. Their good fortune to spot the bargain early and have the cash to snap it up is not a good enough reason to try and leverage a higher price from the next purchaser. IMO, that person is behaving parasitically and wouldn't deserve my money. You might tell me to go live in communist Russia, compare me to a slow runner, win some lose some, deal with it, man up, back down or any other dodgy analogy to justify your greed, and perhaps you'd be right to think I was being too idealistic, but I think of it as not being a bit of a c**t. I don't want to do business like that and I'm happy to admit it. You can accept it as the way of the jungle if you like, especially if you have a vested interest, but I don't think you can seriously expect everyone not to mention that, "hang on, this a rip off". I don't recall anybody mentioning that they where expecting extra payment if they undervalued their bass, or that the forum should be 'mates rates', just that they're hoping not to jump in to a tank full of sharks. And remember folks, if your in the market for a pre-loved instrument without aggressive sales technique and dodgy valuations, come on down to 'Honest Shambo's Used Bass Emporium', just off junction 7, next door to the moral high ground. Where our motto is, "When you're happy, I'm happy!" [/quote] I totally respect your position, no one is being forced to buy or sell anything at any set prices, if you feel it's worth more ask for more, if a buyer feels that is overpriced they will either skip the advert or throw you an offer, if the price is too low and you get loads of offers over night ask yourself why. I have pm'd sellers before suggesting their price is too low, again they are free to investigate my opinion and see if they are losing out or ignor it totally.

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1472153834' post='3118991'] Stingray Pete's spot on. [/quote] It had to happen one day

Sorry you've lost me then.

[quote name='funkgod' timestamp='1472130277' post='3118744'] i have had this in the past, very annoying, about a 2 years ago i sold my wal 6 string to a guy who said he has always wanted one, dream bass, never get rid, loves it bla bla...... and the big one , " if ever i sell it i will contact you first" so, seems a nice bloke. 3 weeks later or so, i spotted it on ebay and he sold it for nearly 600 more then he paid for it, The Ba$!@£D SO.. now if i sell anything, i sell it for what its worth, market value, no money knocked off, no mates rates, nothing extra, that way everyone is happy [/quote] I can understand a little bass chat money off price and no eBay fees or pay pal fees passed onto the buyer to sweeten the deal but why did you sell it at £600 below the market value or did you not research the values before selling? Either way you can see where the decision to sell at the price falls can't you? Some people honestly think the next bass will be the one.....for a week.

Funny how no one complains if the market drops out the bottom for an item after they've sold it isn't it? Has anyone received some compensation from the seller after buying a used Warwick after they crashed years ago?

Imagine if he started a thread on Drum Chat "bass player is too loud, what size amp should he use?", I imagine the answer would be "one with a volume knob", with acoustic instruments the player is the volume knob.

[quote name='Trueno' timestamp='1472134856' post='3118797'] Actually I was trying to reply to Blue's point rather than disagreeing with you (which I don't). I should have quoted Blue, but it's a bit tedious to "spot quote" on an iPad. Next time I'll go upstairs and wake up Big Computer, although that requires an intensity of effort to which I am quite unused. [/quote]

I think you have done well there, at least they can't say "ohh what's up with him?!" if you do leave in future. Nice one and fingers crossed.

I think so yes, even a child's Mickey mouse kit would be loud if hit hard enough wouldn't it?

I didn't know the Jay Haide ones were Chinese? They are very nice.

That's why you MUST stand with your legs apart when playing one!

I've heard loud drummers with small kits,quiet drummers with large kits, loud drummers with large kits and quiet drummers with small kits.

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1472126145' post='3118711'] Our drummer , whilst not being on the bread line, has a pretty poorly paid job. He gigs as much as he can to help with cash. I can do without the playing money, but I enjoy playing and like getting extra beer money. I can't understand where the argument comes from [/quote] I think you are getting two threads mixed up? The problem is of the volume of the band is always too loud not the on going playing for nowt thread, if I played on a band that only played for free that was too loud I'd leave.

Buy an upright, within a week you will wonder why the 35" bass has been shrunk to a size suitable for small children to play!

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1472074018' post='3118355'] No, I don`t, I`ve tried many different string brands and only Rotosound Steel Rounds give me the tone I`m looking for. [/quote] And for me Rotosounds are one of very few brands I'd rather avoid,I had a free set with my jazz five and couldn't wait for them to die, being Rotos that was one gig

[quote name='acidbass' timestamp='1472076716' post='3118410'] Genz Benz - had one myself and never got on with the tone! [/quote] I don't think genz counts as they were still popular when fender pulled the plug on them, their bass chat demise was driven by outside forces

[quote name='Trueno' timestamp='1472111777' post='3118516'] Actually, I have known band members living on the breadline in the UK. One of the reasons I quit the band, because they would do any gig just to get some money, whereas I had a full time job and couldn't gig up to four times a week. They were also fiddling their benefits, which I was uneasy with. [/quote] Oh I know both situations exist, I was just pointing out that not every pro even at the lower levels are in blue's situation.

As an electrician and a musician (still open for debate) I'd say the difference there is that my qualifications as an electrician are quantifiable where art isn't, does a grade 8 on violin make you any more enjoyable to listen to if the person listening hates the sound of a violin?

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1472075798' post='3118395'] Pete, do you personally know any musicians living on the " breadline" whatever that is, playing bar gigs? I'm interested because I don't. I'm also slowly learning that the playing opportunities in the UK are quite different than in the States. I'm maintaining my position. Volume would not be a reason to quit a band. Bass players are always going to deal with volume issues in rock bands as long as there are still guitar players. No gigs, that would be a reason to quit. Most won't quit their job until they have another. That's the way it is in the States and for many different reasons. Remember most over here get their health insurance through their employer. Oh, by the way, I don't eat bread. And I know several musicians with no work that would love a book of good paying bar band business. I'm not sure bar and pub gigs are the same.Might be a good thread and discussion. Keep in mind there is no negative connotation to bar gigs over here. We have national headliners that play bars over here. We all can't sell out Wembley. Blue [/quote] You constantly tell us you have to gig to survive, we call that living on the bread line in the UK, it stops you having the luxury of being able to walk away from a job you hate until you have another. I know of lots of professional players that have earnt enough money that they have a financial buffer to not need to take any old gig, one is a member here who is on a retainer that gives him enough money for the whole year before he leaves his house (which is paid for) the function gigs, dep gigs and anything else is as you would say in the states, gravy. I'm not criticising your situation, just trying to make you understand there is more than one position you can be in financially, The type of profession is not important either, my wife works in a cafe,some people there will spend this week's wages on food and rent, missing a week will cause them money troubles, my wife could afford to walk out and wait for another job to come in as long as I'm working and still be able to live fairly comfortably.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1472065410' post='3118202'] If your not making your living from playing music you can quit anytime for any reason. If playing in any band is your only source of income,you don't quit until you find another band that can pay you at the same level. Blue [/quote] Not all musicians live on the breadline playing bar gigs, just like any job you can get to a point where carrying on isn't possible.

Ernie ball made strings before making basses, I don't know which part of their business is most profitable?