Apparently I'm to ask about Ashdown

[Ou7shined]

I think it actually refers to having thinner eyes and therefore however maliciously intended or not this expression used in an ethnic context comes under the heading of racisms. I'm sure that most of us could get off with talking like this privately with our our mates down the pub etc. (in fact in Scotland it is common to call a Chinese carry out a "chinky" but as this describes an establishment and not a person is not perceived as derogatory) but when you're chatting on the web you have to remember that the conversations aren't private and so consideration for others should be exercised. Shall we put this one to bed and talk about amps or what?

[john_the_bass]

my ashdown head is chinese made and I have never had a problem with it (I hope I don't now!)

the british built cabs - are they made my cabtex?

[OldGit]

[quote name='Beneath It All' post='102922' date='Dec 11 2007, 09:32 PM']......Something called Quality Control I suspect...Dunno about you,but when I'M doing a show,I like my gear to stay working until the tabs go down.Met very few people who haven't had problems with chinese ashdown stuff......[/quote]

That's not a generic Chinese QC thing, it's an Ashdown QC thing. Other people do perfectly well in Chinese production.
I am glad to see that offensive post has been removed.

Edited December 12, 2007 by OldGit

[David Nimrod]

My ABM combo is made in Essex, my 4 x 10 ABM cab is made in China.

There are several things about the Chinese cab that are definately worse than the UK combo.

It's really just cosmetic things, and not drastic, but there *are* differences.

As far as I'm concerned I wish very little was made in China.

But the Wests insatiable demand for cheap goods is to blame.

As my dear old mum says "that's capitalism!"

We'd better get used to it

Edited December 12, 2007 by David Nimrod

[Machines]

I've had 4 Chinese made Ashdown products (Five Fifteen Combo / Electric Blue 180-12 / MAG210T / ABM300 EVO II) and none of them have ever gone wrong.

It's as simple as this: if they were UK made the price would be higher.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='David Nimrod' post='103265' date='Dec 12 2007, 02:47 PM']As far as I'm concerned I wish very little was made in China.[/quote]

Why? Surely it doesn't matter where it's made? It matters how it was designed, and how it was put together. If ashdown can't sort out their own QC in China, then that's their fault, not China's!

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='David Nimrod' post='103265' date='Dec 12 2007, 02:47 PM']My ABM combo is made in Essex, my 4 x 10 ABM cab is made in China.

There are several things about the Chinese cab that are definately worse than the UK combo.

It's not drastic, but there *is* a difference.[/quote]

What's worse about them? Do you mean build quality or sound wise?


Both my combo and cab are english. The construction in both is identical but the combo has Sica and the cab has Celestion drivers. There is a slight perceptible difference between them with the (presumably later) Celestions producing a tad more girth.

Edited December 12, 2007 by Ou7shined

[David Nimrod]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='103303' date='Dec 12 2007, 03:34 PM']Why? Surely it doesn't matter where it's made? It matters how it was designed, and how it was put together. If ashdown can't sort out their own QC in China, then that's their fault, not China's![/quote]


Actually it very much *does* matter where stuff is made, for all sorts of reasons.

One of which is simply the gut level regret that this country now seems to be making bugger all

Good stuff *can* come from China, it's just sad that companies in the UK can't manufacture it here...

Thereby not needing the bloody stuff to be shipped halfway across the world, and all that that entails.

[David Nimrod]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='103306' date='Dec 12 2007, 03:41 PM']What's worse about them? Do you mean build quality or sound wise?[/quote]


No difference (that I can hear) in the sound - they're both Blueline drivers.

But the leathercloth covering isn't as well applied on the Chinese cab,

The badge is cheaper (what, me fussy?) and the wood seems to dent easier.

Like I say, not important things, but my point is that there is a difference.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='David Nimrod' post='103314' date='Dec 12 2007, 03:49 PM']No difference (that I can hear) in the sound - they're both Blueline drivers.

But the leathercloth covering isn't as well applied on the Chinese cab,

The badge is cheaper (what, me fussy?) and the wood seems to dent easier.

Like I say, not important things, but my point is that there is a difference.[/quote]

Gotcha.

Both mine are Blueline too but are of different makes. Might be interesting to whip off a handle and have a peek at what drivers you've got.

[David Nimrod]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='103326' date='Dec 12 2007, 03:59 PM']Might be interesting to whip off a handle and have a peek at what drivers you've got.[/quote]


Good idea

[cheddatom]

There's a difference because Ashdown decided to make changes, not because it's being made in China! Fair enough if you have your own views about the economic patriotism/loyalty of Ashdown, but where a product is made, doesn't have any direct bearing on the quality.

[David Nimrod]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='103335' date='Dec 12 2007, 04:02 PM']There's a difference because Ashdown decided to make changes, not because it's being made in China! Fair enough if you have your own views about the economic patriotism/loyalty of Ashdown, but where a product is made, doesn't have any direct bearing on the quality.[/quote]


Ashdown aren't to blame as such, they're just doing what almost everyone else is doing...

My point is that it's a shame it's now become necessary to go to China to make anything.

And of course something can be made well in China, or badly in (say) America or the UK.

It's just that most people (IMHO) don't have good experiences of Chinese manufacturing.

Either for 'real' reasons (like a product has failed) or for reasons that are less easy to define.

Again, this is very subjective, but given a choice of where something comes from I'd go:-

As regards Far Eastern countries... Japan, Korea, China...

And that may or may not change in the future - we'll see...

Edited December 12, 2007 by David Nimrod

[cheddatom]

Maybe it's a shame, if you have some kind of emotional attachment to british manufacturing. If Ashdown have made a change in their manufacturing process, and it is for the worse, then obviously this needs pointing out. However, that change could have been made anywhere in the world. Any generalisation of products based on where they come from is (basically racist ) seriously limiting your opinions without any rational justification.

[john_the_bass]

if you wanted to look at the environmental impact then I'd rather buy something from a UK manufacturer which has only had to be shipped a short distance - especially when you consider that China are supposed to be the world's biggest polluter - presumably less manufacturing in China would reduce their pollution and possibly world pollution, if different manufacturing processes were used (although why these can't be implemented in the far east, I don't know) - although, if you take into account a product can be sold for less (including shipping it halfway around the world for sale and presumably some form of import tax) by making it in China, than making it here, the Chinese made variant starts to look attractive


[i]edit: I've just read that back and it's a right cobbled together, unstructured load of words. I think i can understand what i'm trying to convey![/i]

Edited December 12, 2007 by john_the_bass

[David Nimrod]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='103378' date='Dec 12 2007, 04:48 PM'](basically racist )[/quote]

Hmmm... I wondered when that would come up...

[David Nimrod]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='103378' date='Dec 12 2007, 04:48 PM']Maybe it's a shame, if you have some kind of emotional attachment to british manufacturing.[/quote]


I guess I do... maybe because I can remember when... etc. etc. (Old fart rambles on...)

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='john_the_bass' post='103401' date='Dec 12 2007, 05:08 PM']if you wanted to look at the environmental impact then I'd rather buy something from a UK manufacturer which has only had to be shipped a short distance - especially when you consider that China are supposed to be the world's biggest polluter - presumably less manufacturing in China would reduce their pollution and possibly world pollution, if different manufacturing processes were used (although why these can't be implemented in the far east, I don't know) - although, if you take into account a product can be sold for less (including shipping it halfway around the world for sale and presumably some form of import tax) by making it in China, than making it here, the Chinese made variant starts to look attractive


[i]edit: I've just read that back and it's a right cobbled together, unstructured load of words. I think i can understand what i'm trying to convey![/i][/quote]
I think I get what you're saying and it's a good point.

[Count Bassy]

Perhaps, to avoid future disputes/upset, there should be a list of acceptable and unacceptable words somewhere.

Could someone start by indicating which of the following are acceptable or not (and why)?

Brit
Limey
Frog
Kraut
Aussie
Yank
Geordie
Chink
Jap
Taff
Scouser
Mex
Ruski
brummie
Mick
eytie
n******
whitey
paki
cockney
kiwi


That's all that spring to mind instantly: Please feel free to add to the list indicating acceptability or otherwise.


Clive

EDITED To add: I see that the famous N*gg*r word has been filtered out by the system, but none of the others have. Isn't that racist ?

Edited December 12, 2007 by Clive Thorne

[David Nimrod]

[quote name='Clive Thorne' post='103420' date='Dec 12 2007, 05:22 PM']Perhaps, to avoid future disputes/upset, there should be a list of acceptable and unacceptable words somewhere.

Could someone start by indicating which of the following are acceptable or not (and why)?

Brit
Limey
Frog
Kraut
Aussie
Yank
Geordie
Chink
Jap
Taff
Scouser
Mex
Ruski
brummie
Mick
eytie
n******
whitey
paki
cockney
kiwi


That's all that spring to mind instantly: Please feel free to add to the list indicating acceptability or otherwise.


Clive[/quote]


Interesting that one of these is starred out... I think you've (partially) answered your own question

[Jono Bolton]

I checked ashdown's site, the ABMs are all made in England, its just the MAG range and downwards that are made in China

[David Nimrod]

[quote name='Clive Thorne' post='103420' date='Dec 12 2007, 05:22 PM']EDITED To add: I see that the famous N*gg*r word has been filtered out by the system, but none of the others have. Isn't that racist ?[/quote]


Honestly, isn't this meant to be about the virtues of that truly wonderful bass amp, the Ashdown

[David Nimrod]

[quote name='jono b' post='103423' date='Dec 12 2007, 05:25 PM']I checked ashdown's site, the ABMs are all made in England, its just the MAG range and downwards that are made in China[/quote]


No, ABM's are now made in China, it's the Classic range that's UK made...

[outsider70]

[quote name='David Nimrod' post='103430' date='Dec 12 2007, 05:27 PM']No, ABM's are now made in China,[/quote]

And have been for a few years I think?

Heres a excerpt from an email received from Martin at Ashdown when I asked about reliability of the Chinese ABM's:-

Quote
Hi Tony
Thanks for your email. With regards the ABM500's since making in China we have not had any issues, I think it appears, some people have an issue with Chinese manufacture that's all..... We have spent years getting our production techniques right out there and I think the quality is easily equal to that of the UK production.

Good luck
Regards
martin

Unquote

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='Clive Thorne' post='103420' date='Dec 12 2007, 05:22 PM']Perhaps, to avoid future disputes/upset, there should be a list of acceptable and unacceptable words somewhere.

Could someone start by indicating which of the following are acceptable or not (and why)?

Brit
Limey
Frog
Kraut
Aussie
Yank
Geordie
Chink
Jap
Taff
Scouser
Mex
Ruski
brummie
Mick
eytie
n******
whitey
paki
cockney
kiwi


That's all that spring to mind instantly: Please feel free to add to the list indicating acceptability or otherwise.


Clive

EDITED To add: I see that the famous N*gg*r word has been filtered out by the system, but none of the others have. Isn't that racist ?[/quote]

I had assumed that references to bigoted, offensive remarks might have fizzled out of this thread by now. However, it appears to refuse to die so I'd like to add that surely as an educated person, the very thought that someone 'might' find a word offensive makes it by definition offensive.

Is it possible to leave this aspect of the thread well alone now?

Edited December 12, 2007 by warwickhunt