clauster Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 The commercial studio my current band use does pretty much everything with plug-ins except compression/limiting. I'll ask my singer (total gear slut) whether he has kept the pics he took of their racks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted November 18, 2010 Author Share Posted November 18, 2010 [quote name='clauster' post='1027395' date='Nov 17 2010, 10:27 PM']The commercial studio my current band use does pretty much everything with plug-ins except compression/limiting. I'll ask my singer (total gear slut) whether he has kept the pics he took of their racks.[/quote] Thanks, that would be great. I jumped on a pretty cheap TL Audio stereo tube comp yesterday on ebay yesterday. I'm going to experiment with that after final mixes for the time being before looking at what I need in the long term. I'm increasingly not liking using plug-ins at all! C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 I really like plug ins, but when you're trying to do something very precise, it's nice to have a sturdy knob to grab hold of (hehe). Perhaps a midi controller of some sort to give you manual control of plug-in parameters would help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 I would take a moment to get realistic about your ability to master your own mixes right now. Really. 'Proper' mastering is a massive step up in terms of room treatment, monitoring, outboard gear from where you are now. But this doesnt mean I think you cant get some great results - just remain a bit realistic. However I would suggest doing it mainly with plugins. Thats not to say that that TL Audio compressor isnt a nice bit of kit (Ivory I would guess, we have one, good kit, can be a wee tad noisey, but thats usual with valve compressors). I would hesitate to use more than a dab of it on a mix buss, can sound really nice on the drum buss though... I would really recommend the Bootsy/'Variety of Sound' plugs for mastering:- BootEq - for general eq'ing, very musical eq this, not a scalpel though! Density II - is a blindingly good 2-buss compressor, really brilliant, and opens up options for M/S processing too Rescue AE - nice processor for manipulating stereo spread And dont forget his FerricTDS tape emulation, which is nothing if not subtle, but does a definite 'something' nice. As for a limiter, as long as you arent looking to go mad (why would you - it sounds rubbish) something like GMax is fine. Just use it to take the very top of the peaks off, just a couple or three dB. Alongside these I use ReaXComp (Reaper's mulitband compressor, excellent interface, as many bands as you want) and ReaComp (Reaper's compressor, very very very good, immensely configurable compressor). Oh, and the best bit, all the Variety of Sound plugs are free, as is GMax, and you already know about Reaper (best £25 I've ever spent on software). I've used the above and got really credible mastering results. However I have also compared my best efforts with those of a pro mastering studio, with all the real gear, and they win (naturally), they get a bit more level, and can achieve certain things that I cant, without going back to the original mix. Nevertheless the results I've got sound great to my ears, and well worth the cost, and have never disappointed anyone listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Wise words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldG Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Great post from 51m0n.... Reaper and plugs will get you a long way - room treatment even further... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Crikey, I'm on fire today aren't I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 (edited) Is it not everyday? You should have a thread containing all your recording tips! EDIT: Not kissing ass, it's just your advice has been very helpful Edited November 18, 2010 by cheddatom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShergoldSnickers Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 [quote name='51m0n' post='1027895' date='Nov 18 2010, 01:26 PM']Crikey, I'm on fire today aren't I [/quote] Oh well, while we are about it have another boost from me - it's got to the point where I'm starting to actually look out for your posts... always good value whether I agree or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted November 18, 2010 Author Share Posted November 18, 2010 [quote name='charic' post='1027801' date='Nov 18 2010, 11:56 AM']Wise words [/quote] [quote name='OldG' post='1027868' date='Nov 18 2010, 01:01 PM']Great post from 51m0n.... Reaper and plugs will get you a long way - room treatment even further...[/quote] I felt a little like I was slapped around the face with a large wet fish reading Simon's post, but yes, he's bang on. My philosophy on the build is to listen to the wisdom of others to narrow things down and then try for myself the narrowed down areas. With the exception of the desk, the software and the computer - the three things I can't afford to fail - everything I'm buying is used, that's on the basis that if it doesn't work out, I can move it on without substantial financial loss. However, each stage involves substantial experiential gain, I can at least say - even if only to myself - I gave it a try. This might sound stupid to some whilst resonating with others, but I find working with keyboards and mice bloody hard work compared to working with switches and dials. I also understand hardware in a way I don't quite get software (I'm getting there). I'm never going to make money out of this, it's only ever going to be a way for myself, my band, and some other local musicians to get tracks down cheaply and in what I hope will be a very friendly and cooperative environment, so to a certain extent, some of my decisions are based more on ego than on common sense (I have to admit I quite like being able to say that I have a tube comp to run mixes through rather than a plug-in, Call me an idiot and you won't be the first or the last I'm sure!). Interestingly, with one key exception, the guys I work with are also very anti software, which to a certain extent guides my thinking also. So I guess what I'm saying is, please keep the advice coming, and please be tolerant if I occasionally seem to ignore good advice for seemingly idiotic reasons! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted November 18, 2010 Author Share Posted November 18, 2010 [quote name='51m0n' post='1027895' date='Nov 18 2010, 01:26 PM']Crikey, I'm on fire today aren't I [/quote] You should have your own forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 I'd deffinitely have a look for some sort of controller so you get a bit of that "hands on feel" back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 [quote name='Beedster' post='1027905' date='Nov 18 2010, 01:32 PM']I felt a little like I was slapped around the face with a large wet fish reading Simon's post, but yes, he's bang on.[/quote] I read it the same to begin with but I don't believe that was the intention Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 (edited) Funny you should say that Chris, my partner in the studio is a full on ProTools nut. He loves it. I always want to be able to work OTB (out of the box) all the way. We have a compromise, in that we track to two HD24s, and transfer to the mac for mix down. Its slow but it means he can work his way and I can work mine when I''m there. In fact the desk is really just a big monitor mixer to be honest, hardly anything goes via the desk to the HD24s, its all seperate mic-pres and channels. Shorter signal path, better results you see! I love working off a desk, far more than a mouse and keyboard. However with the right DAW, a nice controller and the right key strokes set up (and macros if they are supported) not to mention track templates and so on, you can work faster in a DAW than with a desk (it takes some practice). Not to mention the use of instant recall of mixes and so on, the use of as many instances of any vst you need (with todays powerful machines), the nearly unlimited routing capabilites of Reaper. So why do I want to use a desk? EQ mainly, nothing beats a real physical paramteric eq, its way easer (for me) to find the sweet spot with a physical control than dicking around with a mouse. There is no lag at all either. I started on a desk (a 24:16:2 studiomaster IIRC) and tape (Fostex G16 I think), so my mind is there when I'm doing this stuff. Having said that my day job is all about software and user interfaces, so I am reasonably at home with computers and DAWS. I just dont have enough time to learn 300 keystrokes for Reaper (not without unlearning 500 for vi!), and set up every kind of track template I may need.... There is nothing wrong with trying that compressor on the 2-buss, that particular compressor has a valve preamp (running at a full150VDC I think) as well as a valve in the gain control element (so its a 'real' tube comp), which means even if the compressor is not actually running you are still going to be running signal through a tube, which will do its 'thing' to the audio anyway. I just wouldnt see this as a mastering step at all, its part of the mix process still. On another note - you're making me blush chaps, thanks for the kind words! Oh and it wasnt a wet fish facial slap, just a little reality check... Edited November 18, 2010 by 51m0n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 If you really do not want to go the software route for a kind of mastered feel, then I think you would be looking a t getting a TC Finaliser (secondhand) - they work to a point, and are quite old so a cheap 2nd hand one may be the way forward for you. It wont get the same result as doing it with plugsins, and you wont learn as much or have the same control, but it will get you some of the way there.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanOwens Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Hi Simon (sorry for the hijack). I've been developing my understanding of elitism in performance and subverting the supply/demand aspects of music recording. As such I'm employing a transient, dynamic process to the distance-listening experience that I see music recording as. I've developed a vocal-only system whereby the performance is only heard by one listener at a time and once the performance has been completed, it is destroyed (in truth, it was never truly recorded except by the listener's own consciousness). My signal path is this: Voice > cup > string > cup > ear. What is the best string to use in this setup? Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 [quote name='DanOwens' post='1027968' date='Nov 18 2010, 02:40 PM']Hi Simon (sorry for the hijack). I've been developing my understanding of elitism in performance and subverting the supply/demand aspects of music recording. As such I'm employing a transient, dynamic process to the distance-listening experience that I see music recording as. I've developed a vocal-only system whereby the performance is only heard by one listener at a time and once the performance has been completed, it is destroyed (in truth, it was never truly recorded except by the listener's own consciousness). My signal path is this: Voice > cup > string > cup > ear. What is the best string to use in this setup? Dan [/quote] Good question. In the early days of recording it was often the case that engineers would have to make do with any old string for this purpose, ordinary post office grade packing string was popular, but when this wasnt available ther were many case of normal garden twine being taken off the bean poles in the allotment, often with excellent results. Once the colonies got involved though, notable engineers over this side of the pond noticed the increased level of detail in their recordings, which it soon became apparent was attributable in large part to the use of a higher quality military GI Issue string. Techology has improved throughout the last two decades, with higher and higher fibre level strings becoming common, and a general shift towards fatter corded strings. All of this was surpassed in the late nineties with the instroduction of hosepipe, a massive improvement in quality, not to mention significantly less skin irritaion and general itchiness from the fibres of twine based medium. Hosepipe is also said to improve your chances of finding a partner apparently, but needs to be very long and with a particularly high bandwidth (girth in modern parlance) and needs to be kept in the 'trouser department' to do so. I hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Sorry, I'll get me coat.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 would you never use fishing line Si? Also I have some un-opened partners twine from the early 70s. Is this worth anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Errrrrr, never use fishing line, its too high an impedance (not thick enough). Old 70's string is usually OK as long as its not high in asbestos. It might be worth a bob or two even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShergoldSnickers Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 [quote name='DanOwens' post='1027968' date='Nov 18 2010, 02:40 PM']Hi Simon (sorry for the hijack). I've been developing my understanding of elitism in performance and subverting the supply/demand aspects of music recording. As such I'm employing a transient, dynamic process to the distance-listening experience that I see music recording as. I've developed a vocal-only system whereby the performance is only heard by one listener at a time and once the performance has been completed, it is destroyed (in truth, it was never truly recorded except by the listener's own consciousness). My signal path is this: Voice > cup > string > cup > ear. What is the best string to use in this setup? Dan [/quote] The gold thread removed from the turn-ups of a merchant banker's trousers. I just can't use anything else now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted November 18, 2010 Author Share Posted November 18, 2010 Gentlemen, stop this now before it gets silly! I've seen the page count on similar threads double in minutes. Great advice above guys, I'm in the middle of some work now, but will respond later. Can't thank you all enough though, Much food for thought (and I had looked at Finalizers also!) C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clauster Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Hi Chris, Singer bod doesn't know where he's stored the pics, but here's a link to the studio's kit-list page - [url="http://www.brightonelectric.co.uk/techrecording.html"]Brighton Electric Studios - Kit List[/url] I'm certain last time we were there they had even more comps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 [quote name='clauster' post='1028015' date='Nov 18 2010, 03:11 PM']Hi Chris, Singer bod doesn't know where he's stored the pics, but here's a link to the studio's kit-list page - [url="http://www.brightonelectric.co.uk/techrecording.html"]Brighton Electric Studios - Kit List[/url] I'm certain last time we were there they had even more comps![/quote] Its their mic list that makes me moist though.... (sorry) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 T-racks is a great quick-fix mastering plug in that might be a good place to start Chris, There is a lot of automation on it that will, generally speaking get you 60% of they way there. I found it useful for working out if I was heading in the right direction with my mastering techniques Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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