Ashdown Little Bastard and Spyder 550.

[voxpop]

Well the Little Bastard that I ordered to go with my Spyder 550 finally came into the shop this week. Its 45 out of the 100 Uk made ones.

I rushed home and fired up the cute one and was very pleasantly surprised by the sound coming from my two Ashdown Compact 115's. It has the same family sound as the 500 watt Spyder just with a softer bass from the valve power amp stage. All was good so I plugged in the Spyder to do a complete comparison. Things started to go down hill from now on.

I wanted the Little Bastard as an identical product as the Spyder so I could rehearse with it and bring out the 500 watt Spyder for gigs and louder rehearsals. The online manual states that the preamp works in EXACTLY the same way......

The most frustrating FAULTS are that the mute and mid switches are the wrong way round.
This means if you have a great sound on the Spyder and want to duplicate it on the little bastard you have to remember that not all the switches are in the same position.

The online manual clearly states that the operation should be the same for both amps.

I've emailed Ashdown yesterday for an update on what they are going to do about this switch mix up. Unfortunately the switches are soldered directly to the circuit board so a simple ' turn them upside down' will not work.

Apart from these stupid design / build problems its a great sounding low powered amp.

Does any other Little Bastard owner have the same problem or am I just getting my knickers in a twist over nothing......

Edited July 19, 2010 by voxpop

[sk8]

very interested in your comparisons on the Spyder and LB. Need the LB to be a touch louder and was considering the Spyder as a good compromise.

I'm sure the switches on my LB aren't the same way as the manual describes!!!

[cameltoe]

I can only hear a real difference when flipping the bass switch, (from a growl to a more mellow bottom) and yes, the mute is upside down.
I'd like a bit more versatility in the basic EQ too- turning the knobs really does do very little.

Could do with it being a touch louder- I can gig it, (and have, at a fairly packed pub) but have no headroom. Seemed to make quite a bit of difference using the 4ohm 2x12 cab as well, as opposed to my Hartke 4x10 8ohm. Noticably louder through 4ohm.

Sounds lovely- just a shame I can't use it at every gig. (50w would have been spot on)

[voxpop]

[quote name='cameltoe' post='897299' date='Jul 17 2010, 02:23 PM']I can only hear a real difference when flipping the bass switch, (from a growl to a more mellow bottom) and yes, the mute is upside down.
I'd like a bit more versatility in the basic EQ too- turning the knobs really does do very little.

Could do with it being a touch louder- I can gig it, (and have, at a fairly packed pub) but have no headroom. Seemed to make quite a bit of difference using the 4ohm 2x12 cab as well, as opposed to my Hartke 4x10 8ohm. Noticably louder through 4ohm.

Sounds lovely- just a shame I can't use it at every gig. (50w would have been spot on)[/quote]


I haven't gigged the LB yet but feel you are right in saying that its not quite powerful enough. Through two Compact 115's ( 4 ohms ) the sound is very smooth with plenty of punch.

The EQ has a very subtle effect on the sound. I found it very different with the two Sandberg basses I own.

On both the Spyder and the LB the mid has very little effect in one switch position and quite a powerful mid scoop in the other when using the knob in a counter clock wise setting.

Bass switch works great on the LB, one switch position give a growl and the other a mellow relaxed sound which is great for blues. BUT on the Spyder it only gives the growl sound as the switch does nothing in the mellow position....( another bad design ).

The treble both amps work a treat.

The BRIGHT switch on the LB works great BUT on the Spyder does nothing....I really mean NOTHING..( another crap design ).

I use very high quality cables and basses so can hear the differences, no matter how subtle...... I'm sure these switch problems need to addressed as I'm getting very frustrated and I am seriously thinking of sending BOTH back so that ASHDOWN can get the design right.


To finalize the two design / build problems.................

[u][b]The Spyder.....[/b][/u]

Both the BASS and MID switches have very little effect or may be nothing at all in one position. This is the DOWN position. In the UP position they work as described.

The BRIGHT switch has NO EFFECT when used..............NOTHING.????

No XLR DI out only a stereo jack plug....WHY????

[u][b]The Little Bastard....[/b][/u]

The HIGH and LOW inputs are the other way round from the Spyder..( bad design )

MID switch is the same as the Spyder but reversed.....Up is down and down is up ( bad design )

The MUTE switch is the same, up is down and down is up.

PLUS points.......

The Little Bastards BASS switch works a treat, from growl to mellow in one switch movement. WHY cant this design work on the Spyder.


Both of these amps a great in isolation but when put together they look like they have been designed and built by two very different people.
Both amps came with the WRONG manuals...I had to go online to find how the switches work. When I did I found out that they work in completely different ways on each unit.

I am going to have a rethink and maybe return BOTH as neither do as they are described. If ASHDOWN are reading this then please PM me as I have had enough.

[cameltoe]

My LB plus the LB cab never came with the correct manual. They came with Klystron manuals.

I'm happy enough to muck around with the settings- yes they do seem inconsistent, even on the same amp, I guess it must be a bit of a nightmare if you have the spyder too.

Not [i]quite[/i] loud enough, no, but I think you'll be surprised. I don't know what kind of band you're in, I guess a hard rock/ metal band with 2 guitarists and you'd be lost, but I play in a 5 piece folk/rock outfit and last Sat I tried the LB out and it held it's own. Medium-ish sized pub, packed out.

Like I said, I had no headroom, I was just on the cusp of breaking up (where if anything it gets quieter) but I could easily be heard.

It took me a few songs to get used to the sound of valves- at first I thought I couldn't hear myself at all- I'm so used to having that directional, focused sound from solid state that I didn't realise how loud I was. Then I stopped playing just for a second and realised just how layered and a part of the sound I was. More a bed of bass than just notes. Made us sound fatter.

But, yeah. Come on Ashdown sort it out!

I think every LB owner should be able to send their LB back to the factory and have Ashdown fix the problems, plus chuck in a couple extra valves and a few more watts as way of compensation!

[Musicman20]

[quote name='voxpop' post='897334' date='Jul 17 2010, 03:08 PM']I haven't gigged the LB yet but feel you are right in saying that its not quite powerful enough. Through two Compact 115's ( 4 ohms ) the sound is very smooth with plenty of punch.

The EQ has a very subtle effect on the sound. I found it very different with the two Sandberg basses I own.

On both the Spyder and the LB the mid has very little effect in one switch position and quite a powerful mid scoop in the other when using the knob in a counter clock wise setting.

Bass switch works great on the LB, one switch position give a growl and the other a mellow relaxed sound which is great for blues. BUT on the Spyder it only gives the growl sound as the switch does nothing in the mellow position....( another bad design ).

The treble both amps work a treat.

The BRIGHT switch on the LB works great BUT on the Spyder does nothing....I really mean NOTHING..( another crap design ).

I use very high quality cables and basses so can hear the differences, no matter how subtle...... I'm sure these switch problems need to addressed as I'm getting very frustrated and I am seriously thinking of sending BOTH back so that ASHDOWN can get the design right.


To finalize the two design / build problems.................

[u][b]The Spyder.....[/b][/u]

Both the BASS and MID switches have very little effect or may be nothing at all in one position. This is the DOWN position. In the UP position they work as described.

The BRIGHT switch has NO EFFECT when used..............NOTHING.????

No XLR DI out only a stereo jack plug....WHY????

[u][b]The Little Bastard....[/b][/u]

The HIGH and LOW inputs are the other way round from the Spyder..( bad design )

MID switch is the same as the Spyder but reversed.....Up is down and down is up ( bad design )

The MUTE switch is the same, up is down and down is up.

PLUS points.......

The Little Bastards BASS switch works a treat, from growl to mellow in one switch movement. WHY cant this design work on the Spyder.


Both of these amps a great in isolation but when put together they look like they have been designed and built by two very different people.
Both amps came with the WRONG manuals...I had to go online to find how the switches work. When I did I found out that they work in completely different ways on each unit.

I am going to have a rethink and maybe return BOTH as neither do as they are described. If ASHDOWN are reading this then please PM me as I have had enough.[/quote]

Thats pretty poor, I agree. I would expect them to rectify it or get your money back. Good luck with it all.

[andy67]

I ended up cancelling my Little Bastard because of the poor communications from both Sounds Live and Ashdown in-regards to delivery. I posted on their facebook site that they really ought to do better and got a rather snippy email from Dan Gooday. He removed my comments from the site because they were detrimental to the brand! My post was this exactly: Due to ambiguity of deliver I have canceled the Little Bastard I had on order...Must do better guys. I was really disappointed my post was removed mostly because feedback is priceless for people researching a brand but more so because he has now devalued the facebook page.. Had it been me I would have posted underneath something like - really sorry it's not worked out for you I'll have it all up-dated soon. But hey. no just removed the post.

So after this I will think very hard about buying another Ashdown product which is really quite a shame because I really like to support home produced equipment.

good luck.

andy

Edited July 17, 2010 by andy67

[sk8]

[quote name='cameltoe' post='897424' date='Jul 17 2010, 05:15 PM']My LB plus the LB cab never came with the correct manual. They came with Klystron manuals.

I'm happy enough to muck around with the settings- yes they do seem inconsistent, even on the same amp, I guess it must be a bit of a nightmare if you have the spyder too.

Not [i]quite[/i] loud enough, no, but I think you'll be surprised. I don't know what kind of band you're in, I guess a hard rock/ metal band with 2 guitarists and you'd be lost, but I play in a 5 piece folk/rock outfit and last Sat I tried the LB out and it held it's own. Medium-ish sized pub, packed out.

Like I said, I had no headroom, I was just on the cusp of breaking up (where if anything it gets quieter) but I could easily be heard.

It took me a few songs to get used to the sound of valves- at first I thought I couldn't hear myself at all- I'm so used to having that directional, focused sound from solid state that I didn't realise how loud I was. Then I stopped playing just for a second and realised just how layered and a part of the sound I was. More a bed of bass than just notes. Made us sound fatter.

But, yeah. Come on Ashdown sort it out!

I think every LB owner should be able to send their LB back to the factory and have Ashdown fix the problems, plus chuck in a couple extra valves and a few more watts as way of compensation![/quote]I didn't even get a manual with my LB

[voxpop]

[quote name='cameltoe' post='897424' date='Jul 17 2010, 05:15 PM']My LB plus the LB cab never came with the correct manual. They came with Klystron manuals.

I'm happy enough to muck around with the settings- yes they do seem inconsistent, even on the same amp, I guess it must be a bit of a nightmare if you have the spyder too.

Not [i]quite[/i] loud enough, no, but I think you'll be surprised. I don't know what kind of band you're in, I guess a hard rock/ metal band with 2 guitarists and you'd be lost, but I play in a 5 piece folk/rock outfit and last Sat I tried the LB out and it held it's own. Medium-ish sized pub, packed out.

Like I said, I had no headroom, I was just on the cusp of breaking up (where if anything it gets quieter) but I could easily be heard.

It took me a few songs to get used to the sound of valves- at first I thought I couldn't hear myself at all- I'm so used to having that directional, focused sound from solid state that I didn't realise how loud I was. Then I stopped playing just for a second and realised just how layered and a part of the sound I was. More a bed of bass than just notes. Made us sound fatter.

But, yeah. Come on Ashdown sort it out!

I think every LB owner should be able to send their LB back to the factory and have Ashdown fix the problems, plus chuck in a couple extra valves and a few more watts as way of compensation!
s[/quote]

I agree Ashdown need to sort this out. I have emailed them and await their reply on these crazy design issues .

Edited July 18, 2010 by voxpop

[LuvMusic]

[quote name='sk8' post='897497' date='Jul 17 2010, 01:00 PM']I didn't even get a manual with my LB [/quote]

FYI, Ashdown has posted the manual for the LB (and all the new valve heads) on-line within the product description page. Here is the link to the manual: [url="http://www.ashdownmusic.com/tech/manuals/VALVEOPS.pdf"]http://www.ashdownmusic.com/tech/manuals/VALVEOPS.pdf[/url]

You will also find in the manual that it states the LB is muted with the mute switch in the up position and as has been mentioned, this is not reality. The LB is actually muted in the down position.

What is proper, I don't know. Since this is my first valve head and Ashdown product, I don't know what the historical perspective is. From my user perspective (I own the LB prototype from Winter NAMM), the switch orientation seems logical. Down is "Off" (muted) and up is "On" (unmuted). Same as my light switches (down=off, up=on). Same with the bass shift toggle; down is bassy and up is bright. Maybe ignorance is bliss!?

The one item that goes against my intuition is how the tone controls are ordered; mid, bass, and, bright. I'm use to bass, mid and bright/high. No big deal, I just have to remember.

[voxpop]

[quote name='LuvMusic' post='897750' date='Jul 18 2010, 02:48 AM']FYI, Ashdown has posted the manual for the LB (and all the new valve heads) on-line within the product description page. Here is the link to the manual: [url="http://www.ashdownmusic.com/tech/manuals/VALVEOPS.pdf"]http://www.ashdownmusic.com/tech/manuals/VALVEOPS.pdf[/url]

You will also find in the manual that it states the LB is muted with the mute switch in the up position and as has been mentioned, this is not reality. The LB is actually muted in the down position.

What is proper, I don't know. Since this is my first valve head and Ashdown product, I don't know what the historical perspective is. From my user perspective (I own the LB prototype from Winter NAMM), the switch orientation seems logical. Down is "Off" (muted) and up is "On" (unmuted). Same as my light switches (down=off, up=on). Same with the bass shift toggle; down is bassy and up is bright. Maybe ignorance is bliss!?

The one item that goes against my intuition is how the tone controls are ordered; mid, bass, and, bright. I'm use to bass, mid and bright/high. No big deal, I just have to remember.[/quote]


You are right it seem logical to have the mute switch that position. This would be OK if..... a: it was written correctly in the manual and b: its the opposite to its 'sister' product the Spyder. If they where both the same the issue would not exists.
It really does look like two different people designed the two amps without talking to each other.

[KiOgon]

All I can say is that I had the first LB in the UK (end of March) & I told Ashdown about the switches etc. They've obviously not updated the online manual. No I didn't get a hard copy either!

The Up for On is (in my mind) the American way - must be why it seems right to Ben (LuvMusic), but I see it as wrong simply because it's upside down to the notation. I think the guy that designed the amp didn't talk to the guy doing the front panel layout!

It's the Bright & Mute that are wrong (to me) the Bass Shift & Mid Shift could be either way

Take any switch in the world - if you switch it toward the notation, be it On or OFF - O or I - Loud or Quiet - Mute Bright whatever, what do you expect?

It's a lovely little amp though does exactly what I want - beautifully & sounds great

Cheers,
John

[LuvMusic]

[quote name='KiOgon' post='898291' date='Jul 18 2010, 01:07 PM']The Up for On is (in my mind) the American way - must be why it seems right to Ben (LuvMusic), but I see it as wrong simply because it's upside down to the notation. I think the guy that designed the amp didn't talk to the guy doing the front panel layout!

Cheers,
John[/quote]

A "Chicago Yankee in King Arthur's court?"

Cheers back at you John!

[voxpop]

It's a lovely little amp though cool.gif does exactly what I want - beautifully laugh.gif & sounds great smile.gif



I total agree................its sounds wonderful. I have been playing mine for around 3 hours today. Just wish the switches matched the Spyder and the online manual.

[Ashdown Engineering]

[quote name='voxpop' post='897334' date='Jul 17 2010, 03:08 PM']I haven't gigged the LB yet but feel you are right in saying that its not quite powerful enough. Through two Compact 115's ( 4 ohms ) the sound is very smooth with plenty of punch.

The EQ has a very subtle effect on the sound. I found it very different with the two Sandberg basses I own.

On both the Spyder and the LB the mid has very little effect in one switch position and quite a powerful mid scoop in the other when using the knob in a counter clock wise setting.

Bass switch works great on the LB, one switch position give a growl and the other a mellow relaxed sound which is great for blues. BUT on the Spyder it only gives the growl sound as the switch does nothing in the mellow position....( another bad design ).

The treble both amps work a treat.

The BRIGHT switch on the LB works great BUT on the Spyder does nothing....I really mean NOTHING..( another crap design ).

I use very high quality cables and basses so can hear the differences, no matter how subtle...... I'm sure these switch problems need to addressed as I'm getting very frustrated and I am seriously thinking of sending BOTH back so that ASHDOWN can get the design right.


To finalize the two design / build problems.................

[u][b]The Spyder.....[/b][/u]

Both the BASS and MID switches have very little effect or may be nothing at all in one position. This is the DOWN position. In the UP position they work as described.

The BRIGHT switch has NO EFFECT when used..............NOTHING.????

No XLR DI out only a stereo jack plug....WHY????

[u][b]The Little Bastard....[/b][/u]

The HIGH and LOW inputs are the other way round from the Spyder..( bad design )

MID switch is the same as the Spyder but reversed.....Up is down and down is up ( bad design )

The MUTE switch is the same, up is down and down is up.

PLUS points.......

The Little Bastards BASS switch works a treat, from growl to mellow in one switch movement. WHY cant this design work on the Spyder.


Both of these amps a great in isolation but when put together they look like they have been designed and built by two very different people.
Both amps came with the WRONG manuals...I had to go online to find how the switches work. When I did I found out that they work in completely different ways on each unit.

I am going to have a rethink and maybe return BOTH as neither do as they are described. If ASHDOWN are reading this then please PM me as I have had enough.[/quote]


Hey Guys/Girls,

After reading this thread we felt that we should jump in and explain/clarify some of the points that you have been raising.

The first and most important point is that the Little Bastard and the Spyder amps are completely different amps. The Spyder is not a higher powered version of the LB and they are not designed to work in the same way or to sound the same and is also why the inputs are different and the toggles work differently. Sorry if there has been any confusion but apart from any styling similarities they are completely different in the way that they work and operate. Also it is important to note that whilst we know many people have had great success gigging with the LB but it is not primarily intended as a gigging amp, the idea behind the LB is an all valve amp that produces valve tones at manageable volumes for studio work/home recording, home practice etc and at a push small gigs, however you can always DI from the LB and run through a PA if necessary. The all valve sister product to the Spyder is actually the 427 Smallblock and these two amps do share the same preamp and features and hence the same front panel and controls.

A quick point regarding the EQ, please be aware that on both amps they have an interactive passive EQ and when any toggle switch is changed this will in turn affect all three rotary controls, so do experiment by changing one toggle at a time and playing around with the rotary's, it is a simple old school system but there are a lot of different tones to be found if you do this.

Concerning the DI, all Spyders now have an XLR DI as standard, if your Spyder was one of the first and doesn't then please contact our factory on 01621 856010 and we will be happy to get it changed for you free of charge.

The mute button on the LB works correctly it was actually the manual that was incorrect, we have taken the manual offline and this is being corrected today.

As regards the incorrect manuals being sent out with the products it was always intended that the manuals for these products would be downloadable and there would be no printed manual in a bid for us to be a bit more eco friendly. What you should have had is a sheet explaining this so apologies for those who received the an incorrect manual instead. By the end of play today all manuals for the Valve range should be back up on the site with errors corrected.

I hope this helps to explain some of the points you guys have been making and if there are any other queries then please do ask. We really do appreciate the feedback from you guys out there and will always work hard to put anything right that isn't. It's been heartening to see the great reaction to our new valve series and we're sorry about any inconvenience that may have been caused with the initial teething problems. Thanks again for supporting an independent English company and Made In England products and once again we're glad to hear that perhaps most importantly everyone loves how they sound.

Last but not least there will be further additions to the Valve Range for next year so watch this space...

Thanks,

Ashdown

[dannybuoy]

Dear Mr Ashdown,

Please bring out a 100W Medium-Sized Bastard.

[voxpop]

[quote name='dannybuoy' post='899019' date='Jul 19 2010, 03:00 PM']Dear Mr Ashdown,

Please bring out a 100W Medium-Sized Bastard.

[/quote]



Yes please..........

[voxpop]

[quote name='Ashdown Engineering' post='898934' date='Jul 19 2010, 01:49 PM']Hey Guys/Girls,

After reading this thread we felt that we should jump in and explain/clarify some of the points that you have been raising.

The first and most important point is that the Little Bastard and the Spyder amps are completely different amps. The Spyder is not a higher powered version of the LB and they are not designed to work in the same way or to sound the same and is also why the inputs are different and the toggles work differently. Sorry if there has been any confusion but apart from any styling similarities they are completely different in the way that they work and operate. Also it is important to note that whilst we know many people have had great success gigging with the LB but it is not primarily intended as a gigging amp, the idea behind the LB is an all valve amp that produces valve tones at manageable volumes for studio work/home recording, home practice etc and at a push small gigs, however you can always DI from the LB and run through a PA if necessary. The all valve sister product to the Spyder is actually the 427 Smallblock and these two amps do share the same preamp and features and hence the same front panel and controls.

A quick point regarding the EQ, please be aware that on both amps they have an interactive passive EQ and when any toggle switch is changed this will in turn affect all three rotary controls, so do experiment by changing one toggle at a time and playing around with the rotary's, it is a simple old school system but there are a lot of different tones to be found if you do this.

Concerning the DI, all Spyders now have an XLR DI as standard, if your Spyder was one of the first and doesn't then please contact our factory on 01621 856010 and we will be happy to get it changed for you free of charge.

The mute button on the LB works correctly it was actually the manual that was incorrect, we have taken the manual offline and this is being corrected today.

As regards the incorrect manuals being sent out with the products it was always intended that the manuals for these products would be downloadable and there would be no printed manual in a bid for us to be a bit more eco friendly. What you should have had is a sheet explaining this so apologies for those who received the an incorrect manual instead. By the end of play today all manuals for the Valve range should be back up on the site with errors corrected.

I hope this helps to explain some of the points you guys have been making and if there are any other queries then please do ask. We really do appreciate the feedback from you guys out there and will always work hard to put anything right that isn't. It's been heartening to see the great reaction to our new valve series and we're sorry about any inconvenience that may have been caused with the initial teething problems. Thanks again for supporting an independent English company and Made In England products and once again we're glad to hear that perhaps most importantly everyone loves how they sound.

Last but not least there will be further additions to the Valve Range for next year so watch this space...

Thanks,

Ashdown[/quote]

Thank you for the getting back to all of us who feel that they have had problems with the LB. I have taken on board all your points and can follow up by saying that even though I feel some of the design has not been thought out as well as it could be, the sound from both the LB and Spyder are fantastic.
I really look forward to a higher power (100 watt) version of the LB...............maybe called the BS ( Big sh*t )

[dannybuoy]

Would it be possible to add a switch to the higher powered versions to halve (or even quarter) the output like on the Orange Tiny Terror? That way you get the best of both worlds, an amp that can handle small gigs but also give low volume valve drive for recording or practice.

[Ashdown Engineering]

[quote name='voxpop' post='899026' date='Jul 19 2010, 03:04 PM']Yes please.......... [/quote]

Can't really talk about what we are working on as will be a way off yet but my guess is that you may like one of them

[Musicman20]

Great to see some feedback

[sk8]

[quote name='dannybuoy' post='899019' date='Jul 19 2010, 03:00 PM']Dear Mr Ashdown,

Please bring out a 100W Medium-Sized Bastard.

[/quote]+1000000000000000000

[andy67]

Glad to see feedback also and information flowing as it should. The whole Little B. situation has left me bitterly disappointed! But I'll get over it.

[dannybuoy]

I hope the new range have rude names too. Little Bastard, Medium M***erF***er and Massive C**t.

[voxpop]

Just want to say a BIG thank you Dave Green at Ashdown. I had a great chat with him today and he explained the thinking behind the two model ranges. He has restored my faith in Ashdown and I cant wait to see and hear the new models next year.

Thanks again all who took part and helped to calm my rantings.

Marc