thodrik Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 I love old Fenders, I have a 1978 Precision which plays great and I could never sell With that out of the way at this point in my life if I'm getting a bass it has to be one that I'm going to play and gig regularly. Owning a piece of history is great, but as I've found out, history can sometimes play and sound like a dog. I always thought I would pay £2000 plus for an old Fender J bass if it was 'the one', but knowing that a Sandberg, a new Fender Deluxe or a Sadowsky Metro are all cheaper than a lot of these vintage basses makes me wonder if it the 'Vintage' basses are worth the bother, from a general playing standpoint. Although lacking in 'mojo' these basses are finished to a very high standard, use good quality wood and have improved pickups and eq systems (to my ears anyway). I suppose its like wanting a Wal or Fodera though, if you really want an old beat up Fender then you need to pay the price. You can try out the 'relic' finishes, but it just never looks right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throwoff Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 (edited) I'm going to check my 2p into this one. I believe the current vintage market is slighty crazy to say the least. I'll concentrate on Fender as I think almost everyone will understand the terms of reference. I am pretty appaled by the asking prices for some of the old instruments, I have a sneaking suspicion more '70's' Fenders exist now than ever actually left the factory in the whole decade. I am lucky enough to have held a 57' precision and played it and do you know what? It felt like exactly what it was a 50 year old bass that might crap out any second. I also hate investment purchasing. To me a bass is a tool. It has a soul in the wood and its purpose is to be played. I hate to think of the 50's Fenders in climate controlled vaults just there waiting to be sold on again. I do accept that certain examples must be preserved in museums as a way to honor the traditions but not in a vault never being played. All instrument should be played and played and played and when it breaks you fix it again and again until eventually it breathes its last. That is the purpose of the thing. A ding should not upset you it should be a story, a broken bridge should be in the bin and a new one on not spending 500 quid for a original bridge from the same year. It should end up looking nothing like it did at birth and every change should be a story that makes you smile. Deep down I wonder if my 2007 Fender P will in 50 years be worth 10k if I put it under the bed in a case. But I won't! I will play it till it dies and If I dont finish the job hopefully I can pass it on to someone who will. Is it like really old guitars now? You can get a 70 year old acoustic with just as much provenance as a 50s fender for 200 quid becuase people have realised they are just old guitars. in 50 years will a 07 Fender be worth thousands and a 50's woth next to nothing? Edited March 19, 2010 by throwoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 [quote name='throwoff' post='779436' date='Mar 19 2010, 08:55 AM']I also hate investment purchasing. To me a bass is a tool. It has a soul in the wood and its purpose is to be played. I hate to think of the 50's Fenders in climate controlled vaults just there waiting to be sold on again. I do accept that certain examples must be preserved in museums as a way to honor the traditions but not in a vault never being played.[/quote] It's possible to purchase for investment and use it, too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throwoff Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 (edited) [quote name='wateroftyne' post='779440' date='Mar 19 2010, 09:58 AM']It's possible to purchase for investment and use it, too...[/quote] I agree however I refer to investors like you see in some vintage specialists, don't play, won't learn! But they just got a 50 grand bonus and shares are still too risky. EDIT: No offence intended to any vintage guitar store, everyone I have ever visited has been fantastic Edited March 19, 2010 by throwoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 There is a shame in the whole sought after thing, and that is that good instruments can become out of reach for young players. This is more true of the double bass market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 At the risk of stating the blindingly obvious.... things are worth what somebody is willing to pay for them. However mental it is or isn't, clearly someone is willing to pay the 'mad money' for vintage instruments. Or are they? Are people actually getting the sums they are asking for. I wouldn't pay 15-20K for a 1960s Jazz but I don't move in the sort of circles where I need that sort of "credibility". I get people going Oooooooh because I play a 2007 StingRay :-) (no one knows what the Overwater is) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throwoff Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 [quote name='thepurpleblob' post='779496' date='Mar 19 2010, 10:58 AM']I get people going Oooooooh because I play a 2007 StingRay :-) (no one knows what the Overwater is)[/quote] This could start a whole new thread! It is really wierd the way people respond to certain instruments, I have had more people lusting over my 57 CIJ fender than the bassist in the other bands GB spitfire! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 [quote name='throwoff' post='779505' date='Mar 19 2010, 10:05 AM']This could start a whole new thread! It is really wierd the way people respond to certain instruments, I have had more people lusting over my 57 CIJ fender than the bassist in the other bands GB spitfire![/quote] It's weird isn't it? People pay more notice if I go out with a Ricky. Go out with any other of my instruments, nobody cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 [quote name='throwoff' post='779505' date='Mar 19 2010, 10:05 AM']This could start a whole new thread! It is really wierd the way people respond to certain instruments, I have had more people lusting over my 57 CIJ fender than the bassist in the other bands GB spitfire![/quote] You've watched MTV yeh (back when they played music videos)? *Everybody* plays a Precision or a Jazz (a real Fender one, not some poncey custom job), everyone. Even in their subconscious, that's what people think a bass guitar should look like. So Fender's, MMs and the like just look the part - I think Now someone's gonna say, "even more so with 40 years of mojo" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Here's an interesting one... Has anybody been complimented on their sound due to the person seeing the instrument that you are playing? How about this - I play an old Fender and some bid in the audience says it's sounds fantastic. It may not do... but the visuals and the fact the instrument is what it is influences what they say...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 [quote name='thepurpleblob' post='779514' date='Mar 19 2010, 10:13 AM']Now someone's gonna say, "even more so with 40 years of mojo" [/quote] Or get a Nash.... or is that cheating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Perhaps we should all stick Fender decals on our basses for an immediate tone/credibility boost...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperbob 2002 Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 The vintage market, like the share market has more to do with fear and greed than anything else. Just when all looks lost and the blood is on the pavement is the best time to buy. Is it the best time to buy a 64 jazz?- no- because they are the basses people want. Therefore they are priced on a premium. Barclays shares are now £3.57- I put half our companies reserves in them when they were 46p- that was spring last year. If I bought a 64 jazz at say £10,000 would it be worth £78,125 next year? Doubt it- of course you dont get the same risk/return when comparing shares to vintage instruments- which really are depreciating assets in any event. Ity always makes me luagh when people talk about shares being too risky- it is like reverse psychology- the best time to buy is when everything is going wrong - like last year- the best time to sell is when everyone is happy with their performance- this is truly when I am most fearful. A vintage bass is an enjoyable investment I will agree but not the best investment- they are too specialist and illiquid for me- not that I wouldnt like one.................... Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throwoff Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 [quote name='thepurpleblob' post='779514' date='Mar 19 2010, 11:13 AM']You've watched MTV yeh (back when they played music videos)?[/quote] Yet another thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted March 19, 2010 Author Share Posted March 19, 2010 This is the thing, I don't consider my '73 Jazz to be an investment....I'm clearly never going to retire on it lol. BUT I have a bass which will never lose money (unless there is a MASSIVE shift in how people perceive vintage Fenders), unlike all of my other basses. Now, couple that with the fact that it gets taken out and used, plays fantastic, and sounds good (although not as great as I'm planning, but thats down to the Wizard pickups). I like the fact that a bass that I'm playing has been out at gigs and clubs for the past 37 years!!. I do agree that these things should be out being played. Unless a piece is MINT/Museum Grade (in which case it's probably a dog anyway ), the person clearly bought the bass for 'Mojo'.....so get out and use it!. Would I buy a £10,000 1964 Jazz simply because it was a 1964 Jazz?? No, not a chance. Would I buy a £10,000 1964 Jazz because it sounded and played awesome at gigs, looked the part....whilst at the same time appreciating in value?.......(with a big-ass bank loan)....YES. Remember that it turns into a Hobby too, it kinda comes back to the playing/verses gear discussion. I love playing, I love gigging with other musicians etc etc. At the same time, it's fun learning about the history of these Fender basses, the various time lines, transition periods and what-not. I don't go out drinking, doing drugs, snowboarding......I read about vintage Fenders lol.....sad? perhaps, but fun! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperbob 2002 Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 "BUT I have a bass which will never lose money" Never say never my friend. A bass worth 2-3K can [u][b]always[/b][/u] lose money, however unlikely you might think. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomEndian Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 [quote name='Sibob' post='779576' date='Mar 19 2010, 11:14 AM']I have a bass which will never lose money ([b]unless there is a MASSIVE shift in how people perceive vintage Fenders[/b])[/quote] This could certainly happen if the MIA Fenders carry on being as good as they are at the moment. (Do they play as well/better than vintage Fenders? I dunno.) It's [i]conceivable[/i] that 20/30/40 years from now, the 2009/10 models (for example) will be the must-have vintage Fenders. There are no guarantees in these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 [quote name='BottomEndian' post='779635' date='Mar 19 2010, 12:04 PM']This could certainly happen if the MIA Fenders carry on being as good as they are at the moment. (Do they play as well/better than vintage Fenders? I dunno.) It's [i]conceivable[/i] that 20/30/40 years from now, the 2009/10 models (for example) will be the must-have vintage Fenders. There are no guarantees in these things.[/quote] Hahah heres hoping mate. Ill be keeping mine at home then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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