Janek and Hadrien

[Rich]

[quote name='Doddy' post='891309' date='Jul 10 2010, 02:43 PM']There was a reference to all these guys making the same kind of music over and over again. Maybe that is
kind of true to a point,but then again that's the same with any genre. The Blues has stayed mostly the same
for ever. Hip Hop has a large number of artists that sound exactly the same,as does pop. There are a million
bands that sound like Oasis or Arctic Monkeys or whoever. The modern Jazz scene is no different.[/quote]
Hear hear. Music doesn't have to be groundbreaking, leftfield, avantgarde, in order to be enjoyable.

[steve-soar]

[quote name='Doddy' post='891309' date='Jul 10 2010, 02:43 PM']Exactly the same way that other people feel when they hear The Beatles or Tom Waits or whoever it is
that they really like.Just because it is possibly more technical and predominantly instrumental doesn't
make any difference,it still has the same effect.
'Riffing over B major and F' does sound good,but then again so does playing over a more complex set
of changes.

There was a reference to all these guys making the same kind of music over and over again. Maybe that is
kind of true to a point,but then again that's the same with any genre. The Blues has stayed mostly the same
for ever.Hip Hop has a large number of artists that sound exactly the same,as does pop. There are a million
bands that sound like Oasis or Arctic Monkeys or whoever. The modern Jazz scene is no different. As with any
style,if you go back you can hear the roots and how it has evolved,but the 'groovy chops' thing is kind of where
things are at right now.[/quote]I like this reply.

[Spoombung]

I'm much more critical of the Trade Show Culture and it's [i]cool chops, jamming music[/i] than most people here.

I feel there's some laziness on the part of the promoters who pick the bass players - (who are usually the sponsored sales reps of the gear companies on these occasions, after all). They might as well be wearing suits. Every year we have the same faces; Wooten, Bailey, the two guys in the video we are discussing and all the others... and we end up with [i]groovy chops music[/i] all the time.

There's also a more persistent and wider problem with how the cultural role of the instrument is perceived. [i]Groovy chops, Jazzy, jamming music[/i] is seen as an area where the bassist can extend their technique and show their versatility and virtuosity to the full. Other genres do not invite the same attention (Punk, alternative rock, experimental music etc) despite all having having featured innovative and interesting players at some time or other. Yet players from these genres do not get invited to perform at these shows very often. I'm not suggesting a conspiracy - just laziness on behalf of the promoters and researchers.

Why not try something different? The band in this recent thread [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=94341"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=94341[/url] would suit the bill for a start. They have a dazzling virtuoso bassist but their influences are more diverse than usual. They have listened from elsewhere to get their inspiration.

I like to see music changing and people trying new hybrid forms and using influences from other genres - not the same thing every year.

[steve-soar]

[KevB]

Why do I keep expecting Graham Chapman in military uniform to come striding on telling us this is 'far too silly' ? ^_^ *


* Other than he's dead of course...

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='steve-soar' post='891498' date='Jul 10 2010, 06:39 PM'][/quote]

Er, is this an episode from the Mighty Boosh?

[steve-soar]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='891526' date='Jul 10 2010, 07:09 PM']Er, is this an episode from the Mighty Boosh? [/quote]Sounds like a bad acid trip to me.

[Rayman]

Agreed, that does nothing for me either. That's the kind of 'jazz improv' I don't like, and certainly not [i]my idea [/i]of bass playing. However, you can argue that stuff like that pushes a few boundries, and if that's what you like, brilliant.

[purpleblob]

Seriously guys, I don't think anyone should take a rehearsal/trade fair/bassday jam to be wholly and 100% representitive of any of these guys actual musical output. They're messing around and showing off, I'm sure we've all done it but usually don't find it recorded and placed on youtube.

EDIT: Oh and for the record I hate the vid of MG and Hadrian, but as I have albums by both of them I can state that their albums are nothing like this jam.

Edited July 11, 2010 by purpleblob

[grahamd]

Janeks podcasts or 'basscasts' are very good too. Free on iTunes if you like 'that kind of thing'

[Faithless]

I've just watched through that MG & Hadrien video. I've watched it [i]all[/i], from the very first to the last second of it, and I loved it. Maybe it's because it was so obvious to me, what they were doing - and, to me, it was a 'plain' conversation between two, with phrases, and reactions.

And, the stuff, they were playing.. I think you can't call it 'idea of bassplaying'.
I don't think, that, at that jam, any of those players were refering to any [i]idea[/i] of bassplaying, or such sh1t - they simply left the harmony, tonal music (I couldn't hear any actual harmony over it..) away from it, played somethin', and tried to saw, what happens [i]if[/i] one does this or that.

And I don't judge them, you can't judge people for trying to push the boundaries a bit.

Now, wattabout 'showing-off' thing. Do you really think that Hadrien, or MG wanted to show themselves off? Really?

I think, that none of those two are about 'showing off' - they do the very same thing each day - at the rehearsal, gig, or private practice - that's just their [i]thing[/i], and, if lots of people wouldn't appreciate their [i]thing[/i], we wouldn't know about any of these cats to this very day.



Dude, I'm so tired of defending this kinda music - is this stuff really so hard to appreciate, or, at least, to tolerate?

Edited July 11, 2010 by Faithless

[purpleblob]

[quote name='Faithless' post='891991' date='Jul 11 2010, 03:05 PM']I think, that none of those two are about 'showing off' - they do the very same thing each day - at the rehearsal, gig, or private practice - that's just their [i]thing[/i], and, if lots of people wouldn't appreciate their [i]thing[/i], we wouldn't know about any of these cats to this very day.

Dude, I'm so tired of defending this kinda music - is this stuff really so hard to appreciate, or, at least, to tolerate?[/quote]

@Faithless, I'm confused at who these comments are aimed at, but I have to assume they're aimed at my post because I used the phrase "showing off" and I'm afraid (if this is the case) you really did, 100%, miss the point of my post. If your comments are indeed aimed at me I repectively suggest you re-read my posts within this thread as I certainly do appreciate this type of playing and this type of musician - I just happen to think that this video is not representitive of these players recorded work.

As for the comment "Maybe it's because it was so obvious to me, what they were doing", well I think I'll leave that one well alone and hope it was simply lost in translation.

EDIT: Sorry just read my comment again, whilst I do like these guys as musicians and I do like the recorded works of theirs that I have, I do not like this video of them. My intention was to point out that this vid. is not representitive of their recorded works (well not the stuff I have).

Edited July 11, 2010 by purpleblob

[Rayman]

Maybe this thread has run its course

Or at least it [i]would have[/i], if I hadn't just replied to it.

[Pete Academy]

I agree. Will people stop replying to this thread and let it lie?

[mcgraham]

TBH, I sometimes wonder if musicians renowned for their technical and musical prowess think that their fan base will think they were playing expressively whether they were intentionally being expressive or intentionally widdly with their playing. In that video, for example, some of it sounded expressive to me, but sometimes it seemed to descend into fun but mindless shredding... which is fine (and fun!) in a jam context, but sometimes fans get very defensive of ALL their musical heroes playing even when those musical virtuosos have indeed been guilty of mindless widdling - e.g. 'it's jazz man, you wouldn't understand, you just don't get it man, can't you see? they're playing from their soul'....

FYI Faithless, this is not intended as a dig at you, your post just reminded me of some real life debates I've had with people who have used the above snide comments and online discussions that have turned into flame wars... and my own naivety in the past!

[urb]

I think it's time we all went and listened to some MUSIC instead for a bit...

[purpleblob]

[quote name='urb' post='892597' date='Jul 12 2010, 10:39 AM']I think it's time we all went and listened to some MUSIC instead for a bit... [/quote]

Way ahead of you, currently listening to a beautiful tune by MG called Family. Really tasteful & tasty playing

[mcgraham]

+1. Favourite track on the live album ... at least for now