Janek and Hadrien

[mcgraham]

Yes I've heard Billy sing on one of the G3 dvd's, not bad but I'd rather hear him play bass. Same can be said for a host of other virtuoso musicians: Satriani, Vai, Johnson, though I am mainly thinking of guitarists.

[Doddy]

[quote name='urb' post='889002' date='Jul 7 2010, 09:54 PM']I know he can get seriously cheesy sometimes but I'll forgive him as he is 'Victa'... [/quote]

But you can't forgive him for 'I saw God'.

[mcgraham]

Oteil does scat and I think he has a really nice tone when doing so, but I've never heard him sing an actual song.

[Faithless]

I do really like 'singing-over-improvising thing',as does Oteil Burbridge, Janek, Oli Rockberger, and other folks..

I think, singing, it's what helps to sound fresh and keep it interesting and not too 'w***y'..

J Gwizdala does it best for me in this case - just listen to him on 'Cinema Remix' - well, maybe the guy does sing a bit 'out', but, man it's just crazy how singing pushes the solo forward..



PS I would love to see Hadrien singing over soloing.. seriously.

[4000]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='888832' date='Jul 7 2010, 07:12 PM']Fair enough. Good post.

Good groove, bad groove...now there's a thread in the making. [/quote]

No hard feelings and my comment wasn't meant to inflame; it was just me thinking aloud. I should maybe have chosen my words more carefully; its easy to read the worst into something. I then took offence at the "laughable" comment and shouldn't have done.

As for that thread, I think I'll stay out of it this time!

[purpleblob]

Sorry guys, whilst I quite like Victor's singing especially love it on "Bass Tribute", but I really hate the scat stuff that Janek and others do. It's impressive that they can sing the notes they're playing (seemingly in perfect pitch) but so tedious (in my opinion ).

Give me a real singer any day

EDIT: Actually just thinking of it, I hate scat sung by a "real" singer also - so just stop the scat I say.

Edited July 7, 2010 by purpleblob

[velvetkevorkian]

I've not listened to a lot of Janek's work (mainly Youtube stuff) so correct me if I'm wrong, but is his scatting (is that a word? It is now) not part of his soloing process, and not really meant as part of the performance per se? Can you hear it on record when there's not a camera mic pointed at him?

I've tried it once or twice and it does genuinely make me sound a bit more melodic (not that that's difficult ) because your brain dictates the notes not your fingers. I'm too self conscious to do it in public though, as well as too rubbish at jazz.

[XB26354]

George Benson is the man for that (as in scat with soloing) - absolutely brilliant (esp early days) and very musical.

[purpleblob]

[quote name='XB26354' post='889067' date='Jul 7 2010, 10:46 PM']George Benson is the man for that (as in scat with soloing) - absolutely brilliant (esp early days) and very musical.[/quote]

Damn! The exception to my rule. Early George Benson stuff was good

[Doddy]

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='889059' date='Jul 7 2010, 10:38 PM']I've not listened to a lot of Janek's work (mainly Youtube stuff) so correct me if I'm wrong, but is his scatting (is that a word? It is now) not part of his soloing process, and not really meant as part of the performance per se? Can you hear it on record when there's not a camera mic pointed at him?

I've tried it once or twice and it does genuinely make me sound a bit more melodic (not that that's difficult ) because your brain dictates the notes not your fingers. I'm too self conscious to do it in public though, as well as too rubbish at jazz.[/quote]

The way players like Janek scat is indeed part of he process and not the performance. It's more about the phrasing on the instrument rather
than the actual scatting itself. It's just a way to get melodic ideas that your hands may not naturally play. I've seen Janek play scale exercises
and sing along with those.It's just something he does when he plays,and it's different from the way someone like George Benson or Oteil
Burbridge does,where the scat is as prominent as the instrument.
Generally I don't like scat singing (Benson excluded)-especially when singers(usually female) think that by going "Boo-Bop-ee-Do" badly
means that they can sing Jazz-but it really is a useful tool to help with your phrasing.

[mcgraham]

I particularly like Janek's tone and touch on his bass. Very clean, deep, round, crisp, even (like Good King Wenceslas?) without excessive top end and without being reduced to just reggae sounding bass. I also find that even his high strings sound very full and thick, while Matt G has a much more 'guitary' vibe to his higher strings.

[Faithless]

Singing was something I took from V Wooten - I firstly started singing along when practising scales, then I just try to solo, and use my voice as a guide.

Singing helps not to only invent some new ideas, but also prevents you from playing too many notes - your melodic ideas become much more clearer..
Also, as stupid it sounds, singing makes you breath, and stay relaxed - it's a very important thing.
I remember Janek saying, that he used to do 'relaxation' exercises - standing 'properly' on both legs, breathing steadily and trying to play some ex while trying to stay as cool and as relaxed as possible. Then you could add singing to what you playing (even a C major scale, lets say..) - and you got a cool exercise on staying relaxed when playing anything..

For those of you, who think that you 'ain't no singer', just try singing when playing to some scale, or playing a lil' solo - you may find yourself surprised..

[purpleblob]

[quote name='Faithless' post='889323' date='Jul 8 2010, 10:25 AM']For those of you, who think that you 'ain't no singer', just try singing when playing to some scale, or playing a lil' solo - you may find yourself surprised.. [/quote]

Unfortunately I tried this, the horrid noise coming out of my mouth distracted me from my playing it was that bad (so no surprise for me)

Not sure if he's been mentioned, but as this threads brought in a little Tony Grey, some Victor and Matt G, I have to say how much I like Adam Nitti's playing and his compositions. What a fantastic musician.

Edited July 8, 2010 by purpleblob

[mcgraham]

I should check out Adam Nitti again, checked him out a few years ago but didn't quite capture my attention then... maybe now I'll dig him a bit more.

[Rayman]

Adam's my favourite player, period.

[purpleblob]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='889358' date='Jul 8 2010, 11:10 AM']I should check out Adam Nitti again, checked him out a few years ago but didn't quite capture my attention then... maybe now I'll dig him a bit more.[/quote]

Sometimes the pyrotechnics get in the way of his music (his quick fire two handed tapping and amazing fast technique).

I don't personally find his playing as melodic as Janek or Tony Grey. He's a little more in yer face - but nevertheless I do like his playing a lot, particularily when playing in a band context.

EDIT: Hmm not sure that melodic comment seems right. I'll leave it, but I don't mean he doesn't play melodically, he's an exceptional musician and I tend to listen to his albums a lot. Anyway, you'll either get what I mean or I'll sound like I'm talking garbage (as I dig myself a hole)

Edited July 8, 2010 by purpleblob

[Rayman]

I did a masterclass with Adam @ Bassday last year. I started off just being totally blown away to be stting there watching him, but ended up totally lost in a big steaming pile of theory that just went right over my head.

Still love the guy though.

[mcgraham]

I've never managed to make it to a Bass day event. I've always had something going on that prevents me from attending.

[RhysP]

[quote name='Doddy' post='889168' date='Jul 8 2010, 01:01 AM']The way players like Janek scat is indeed part of he process and not the performance. It's more about the phrasing on the instrument rather than the actual scatting itself. It's just a way to get melodic ideas that your hands may not naturally play. I've seen Janek play scale exercises and sing along with those.It's just something he does when he plays,and it's different from the way someone like George Benson or Oteil[/quote]
I'm obviously missing something here, but why can't a player just "Think" it, rather than having to do it out loud?

It seems to me like the musical equivalent of moving your lips whilst reading.

[Rayman]

It apparently improves your knowledge of the notes on the fingerboard to be able to sing them as you play them.

I've heard plenty of jazz piano, guitar and bass players do it, but I must confess, it annoys me a bit. Never heard Steve Harris do it.

[Doddy]

[quote name='RhysP' post='889533' date='Jul 8 2010, 02:16 PM']I'm obviously missing something here, but why can't a player just "Think" it, rather than having to do it out loud?

It seems to me like the musical equivalent of moving your lips whilst reading.[/quote]

Because when you sing it,you have to breath so you will phrase it better,the way a horn player might. If you are just thinking it,it is easy to just play long continuous lines because you don't need to take a breath.

[purpleblob]

[quote name='Rayman' post='889540' date='Jul 8 2010, 02:22 PM']I've heard plenty of jazz piano, guitar and bass players do it, but I must confess, it annoys me a bit. Never heard Steve Harris do it.[/quote]

I humm along to the Blood Brothers bass line, is this the same thing ?

[mcgraham]

You could achieve the same result without singing along, but it helps to bring in beneficial elements from vocals and apply them to a non-vocal instrument. For example:
- you will be forced to slow down and think more about the notes,
- you will (as has been said above) have to breath to sing thus giving more space to your lines,
- vocal lines/melodies tend to consistently draw most people's attention more than just extremely fast playing or amazing technique so playing vocal-esque lines/melodies can help to think/play in a similar way... etc

[endorka]

[quote name='RhysP' post='889533' date='Jul 8 2010, 02:16 PM']I'm obviously missing something here, but why can't a player just "Think" it, rather than having to do it out loud?[/quote]

While I can certainly appreciate its utility as a practice technique, for the vast majority of players I think it is something that should stay in the practice room. Most musicians are not great singers in the way that, say, Ella Fitzgerald is, and in my opinion their "less than optimal" vocalisations detract from the performance on their main instrument.

Just say no.

Jennifer

[mcgraham]

[quote]Most musicians are not great singers in the way that, say, Ella Fitzgerald is, and in my opinion their "less than optimal" vocalisations detract from the performance on their main instrument[/quote]

I apologise in advance if you feel I'm putting words in your mouth here... do you think that (in general) musicians who are good, or even exceptional, on at least one instrument cannot develop/acquire similar levels of proficiency with their voice as an instrument?