Fussiness. I Think I May Go Mad...

[Josh]

Apologies for the forthcoming rant.

I think I'm almost at the end of my tether in regards to basses. I have been through a plethora of high-end basses over the last 6 months or so, and I haven't been able to settle on one for more than a couple of months before I move it on again because of stupid little things that I'm so fussy with it is quickly becoming a problem.

I've only had my Smith for barely a week and I'm just about to ready to list it up for sale. While tonewise I can't fault it and love what I can get from it, but after constantly resetting the action over the last few days(Both the neck and bridge) I can not find my ideal and preferred set up. To clarify, my ideal set up is a stupidly low action, with minor buzz and the tension is usually quite low because I dig in a lot, and as such I compensate by playing a full step down. Ironically, my £200 Squier has this action and I achieved it with ease, yet on a £3000 boutique bass I can't seem to get anywhere near it without seriously choking a lot of the notes.

I'm definitely not alone in being exceedingly fussy over set ups but I feel that I'm now almost too fussy for my own good. I'm irritated mainly because I've wanted a Smith for long time now and now I have one and was brilliant for the first few days, and now I really can't get on with it already...it's ridiculous.

Again. I apologise for the rant but this is just getting silly now.

Edited August 7, 2009 by Josh

[ped]

I share your setup tastes - have you considered graphite?

[Dread Bass]

Why not get a pro to set it up like you want it they might be able to work a bit of magic.

[rslaing]

[quote name='Josh' post='562938' date='Aug 7 2009, 05:47 PM']Apologies for the forthcoming rant.

I think I'm almost at the end of my tether in regards to basses. I have been through a plethora of high-end basses over the last 6 months or so, and I haven't been able to settle on one for more than a couple of months before I move it on again because of stupid little things that I'm so fussy with it is quickly becoming a problem.

I've only had my Smith for barely a week and I'm just about to ready to list it up for sale. While tonewise I can't fault it and love what I can get from it, but after constantly resetting the action over the last few days(Both the neck and bridge) I can not find my ideal and preferred set up. To clarify, my ideal set up is a stupidly low action, with minor buzz and the tension is usually quite low because I dig in a lot, and as such I compensate by playing a full step down. Ironically, my £200 Squier has this action and I achieved it with ease, yet on a £3000 boutique bass I can't seem to get anywhere near it without seriously choking a lot of the notes.

I'm definitely not alone in being exceedingly fussy over set ups but I feel that I'm now almost too fussy for my own good. I'm irritated mainly because I've wanted a Smith for long time now and now I have one and was brilliant for the first few days, and now I really can't get on with it already...it's ridiculous.

Again. I apologise for the rant but this is just getting silly now.[/quote]


Is your new bass a neck through or bolt on?

[Shockwave]

I am the exact same as you with tastes to action. I use weakman strings as well!

My solution was to go fretless! They can go lower and no frets to worry about buzz!

[ped]

Hehe that's one way of doing it!

[Josh]

[quote name='ped' post='562948' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:03 PM']I share your setup tastes - have you considered graphite?[/quote]

It has crossed my mind, and having previously had a King-Bass I know the benefits, but I for the life of me couldn't see myself with an S2 or another KB.

[quote name='metaltime' post='562949' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:05 PM']Why not get a pro to set it up like you want it they might be able to work a bit of magic.[/quote]

I don't really want to be spending money on something which may potentially hurt the value of this bass.

[quote name='rslaing' post='562951' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:10 PM']Is your new bass a neck through or bolt on?[/quote]

Bolt on.

[quote name='Shockwave' post='562954' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:14 PM']I am the exact same as you with tastes to action. I use weakman strings as well!

My solution was to go fretless! Even lower then and no frets to worry about buzz![/quote]

That's crossed my mind as well, but I haven't really got the intonation skills to even risk it.

[ped]

Plenty of other Graphite makers out there Josh -I couldn't see myself with one of those either!

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Josh' post='562938' date='Aug 7 2009, 05:47 PM']I've only had my Smith for barely a week and I'm just about to ready to list it up for sale. While tonewise I can't fault it and love what I can get from it, but after constantly resetting the action over the last few days(Both the neck and bridge) I can not find my ideal and preferred set up. To clarify, my ideal set up is a stupidly low action, with minor buzz and the tension is usually quite low because I dig in a lot, and as such I compensate by playing a full step down. Ironically, my £200 Squier has this action and I achieved it with ease, yet on a £3000 boutique bass I can't seem to get anywhere near it without seriously choking a lot of the notes.[/quote]

Hang on. You dig in a lot, you have stupidly low action, tune down a full step and thus have very low tension, and you're complaining about notes choking off? You can't have it all!

One of the perils of expensive neck-thru basses is that they have more sustain in the low harmonics, which equals more string excursion for a given input, and as string excursion tends to rotate with sustain it's in the sustain phase that the strings start hitting the frets.

With a cheap bolt-on bass those lower harmonics last for much less time, hence the string doesn't have time to rotate and start hitting the frets.

Raise the action and persevere. You may find that you come to like having a marginally higher action, if not the bass will probably have appreciated if you bought it used.

Alex

P.S. I see your bass is a bolt on, in which case the fundamental sustain issue shouldn't be as extreme, so it should be easier to tweak in.

Edited August 7, 2009 by alexclaber

[Josh]

[quote name='ped' post='562959' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:22 PM']Plenty of other Graphite makers out there Josh -I couldn't see myself with one of those either![/quote]

I forgot to mention that I did notice a loss of tone compared to normal wood necks, my KB did sound quite cold at times and left me as such. I don't know why, but I don't think I could ever go custom without the fear that my fussiness would just get the better of me and I would no doubt end up moving that bass on.

[bubinga5]

Josh..i know this might be difficult..but have you considered actually raising the action and trying to get used to it...i realised i was choking the note when playing harder so i raised the action slightly..i got used to it and can play just as fast as used to with a the super low action..


Bass strings need some breathing space, thats just there nature..Do not sell the Smith..you will regret it...its not the bass..maybe your tastes need a little adjusting bro...

In my experience you really have to work with a good bass to achieve a comfortable medium...and you have one of best there is.

Hard as it is i think you need to change your habbits not the bass..

Edited August 7, 2009 by bubinga5

[Mr. Foxen]

Bad workman blaming his tools. Work on your technique. Learn to play upright. That will sort your finger strength and intonation.

[alexclaber]

If you were closer I'd lend you my bass for a couple of weeks. Some time on that and the Ken Smith will feel effortless!

Alex

[ped]

[quote name='Josh' post='562963' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:26 PM']I forgot to mention that I did notice a loss of tone compared to normal wood necks, my KB did sound quite cold at times and left me as such. I don't know why, but I don't think I could ever go custom without the fear that my fussiness would just get the better of me and I would no doubt end up moving that bass on.[/quote]

OK fair enough, but that's just one way of using graphite. I find them a bit cold, too. Lots of ways to kill a cat!

[Josh]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='562961' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:25 PM']Hang on. You dig in a lot, you have stupidly low action, tune down a full step and thus have very low tension, and you're complaining about notes choking off? You can't have it all!

One of the perils of expensive neck-thru basses is that they have more sustain in the low harmonics, which equals more string excursion for a given input, and as string excursion tends to rotate with sustain it's in the sustain phase that the strings start hitting the frets.

With a cheap bolt-on bass those lower harmonics last for much less time, hence the string doesn't have time to rotate and start hitting the frets.

Raise the action and persevere. You may find that you come to like having a marginally higher action, if not the bass will probably have appreciated if you bought it used.

Alex[/quote]

Ahh no no, my rule of thumb is that if it doesn't show up on a recording it's legal, the note may indeed choke but the note is there and it is perfectly audible.

And not meaning to come across as a cock Alex but I really do not like high actions, I really can't get on with them. A high action does not suit my style of playing at all, I'm exceedingly envious of guys who can play flawlessly yet on such an incredibly high action.

[Josh]

To clarify, I have raised the action on the Smith way beyond what I'm comfortable with, and I seriously don't like it, both tonewise and playability wise.

[Shockwave]

Hehe, Well my intonation sucked alot when i first started playing fretless, but grew into it.

It sounds to me you dont want to try and stick to new ways of playing.

[Josh]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='562966' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:27 PM']Josh..i know this might be difficult..but have you considered actually raising the action and trying to get used to it...i realised i was choking the note when playing harder so i raised the action slightly..i got used to it and can play just as fast as used to with a the super low action..


Bass strings need some breathing space, thats just there nature..Do not sell the Smith..you will regret it...its not the bass..maybe your tastes need a little adjusting bro...

In my experience you really have to work with a good bass to achieve a comfortable medium...and you have one of best there is.

Hard as it is i think you need to change your habbits not the bass..[/quote]

I really don't think I should have to, considering I have had a number of basses which pull of my preferred action with ease, it's just been the tone that has lead me to moving those basses on. Both my MTD's pulled my action of with ease, if anything they helped me find my ideal set up, it's just ultimately one was a 6 string and the 535 didn't have my ideal tone.


[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='562967' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:28 PM']Bad workman blaming his tools. Work on your technique. Learn to play upright. That will sort your finger strength and intonation.[/quote]

Cheers. The bass is not a fault, far from it, any other player could come along and pick it up and instantly be in love. I'm at fault because I'm so god damn fussy, I acknowledge that happily. And trust me when I say this, I pay very close attention to my technique and I know it needs work but for what I'm doing now I can't see any problem in my technique.

[RhysP]

Why do you think that paying someone who knows what they're doing to set your bass up would "potentially hurt the value of this bass"?

[bubinga5]

[quote name='Shockwave' post='562978' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:40 PM']Hehe, Well my intonation sucked alot when i first started playing fretless, but grew into it.

It sounds to me you dont want to try and stick to new ways of playing. [/quote]Tis difficult to play a high action if your used to playing low...can be done though...

[4000]

[quote name='Josh' post='562958' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:20 PM']I don't really want to be spending money on something which may potentially hurt the value of this bass.[/quote]

A bit obvious, but maybe the frets need tailoring a bit (you can do a lot more than just flatten 'em you know)? What about trying a Plek set-up or taking it to a bloody good luthier? There's no reason why it should hurt the value at all. It's not exactly a cheapie, so before you move it on I'm sure it's worth the risk.

FWIW, and despite the above, sometimes this sort of thing does happen. IME, every individual bass is different and will tolerate a different setup. It may be that another Smith wouldn't have the same problem. Weird things do happen; I could get the action on my old Ric 4000 (sadly no longer with me) playably lower than I can on my Sei 4, which I would never have imagined. I also sometimes wonder if more frets can potentially cause more problems; after all there's more neck to correct!

Edited August 7, 2009 by 4000

[rslaing]

It's a bolt on - the potential for setup is unlimited, unlike a neck through.

One other question, are you using the same brand and gauge of strings on both the Squier and the new one?

[Josh]

[quote name='Shockwave' post='562978' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:40 PM']Hehe, Well my intonation sucked alot when i first started playing fretless, but grew into it.

It sounds to me you dont want to try and stick to new ways of playing. [/quote]

Not in a negative way but I think your right. I like playing fretted and have grown accustomed to it and appreciate the fact that I'm more suited to fretted than fretless playing. Indeed I'd like to have another pop at fretless playing properly, but I'm just happy with where I am and with where I'm going .

[Josh]

[quote name='rslaing' post='562986' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:46 PM']It's a bolt on - the potential for setup is unlimited, unlike a neck through.

One other question, are you using the same brand and gauge of strings on both the Squier and the new one?[/quote]

2 different brands, both the same gauge though. But I have tried the Smith with a smaller set which I have lying around as well, but still no joy.

[Shockwave]

[quote name='Josh' post='562987' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:46 PM']Not in a negative way but I think your right. I like playing fretted and have grown accustomed to it and appreciate the fact that I'm more suited to fretted than fretless playing. Indeed I'd like to have another pop at fretless playing properly, but I'm just happy with where I am and with where I'm going .[/quote]

You sure your that happy where your going, according to the thread title, you aint!

Either way, i have a nice Pedulla Fretless 5 for you to play on in Bristol, if your ever in town, by all means come on over and play some poor intonated jazz.