Fussiness. I Think I May Go Mad...

[nobodysprefect]

Will this look like piling on Josh?

I think Patitucci - who's also my hero - said it very well. Of course, tone is a subjective thing. But if one wants that full tone, like, say Charlie Haden, Ray Brown, John Patitucci have, the strings need to have enough clearance. I love the lines and note choices of some of the greats of bass, but man does their low action choke their tone. But then again, a thinner, bottomless tone is great for clarity! (But couldn't they have played a cello?)

The electric bass allows for incredibly low action (compared to old doghouse) while retaining a full, round tone. Ken Smith said something like:'if you let the amp do the work and polish your technique, you can get the action quite low.' But he really emphasized that letting the amp do the work thing! And Ken's another upright player.

Playing the upright has generally been considered a great excercise for one's hands and ears - not to imply has Josh's ear isn't good, just that the challenges are different! And the benefit for electric technique from [i]PROPER classically trained upright teacher [/i] is generally thought to be enormous. I can certainly attest to that. I've never had trouble adjusting to whatever electric after I started considering the upright bass the real bass and the electric as the moped of bass family. (I'll readily admit to being on a stupid buying spree last year when attractive stuff became available and non-playing related, personal stuff really fusked with my mind)

[molan]

Not sure how many people have heard Josh play but I've had the pleasure of visiting him a few times and, most recently, playing along with him.

Personally I think he's a really talented musician (certainly a different league from me!).

When he really digs in and is playing funky gospel type stuff or soloing he has a very distinct sound that's very much his own.

Obviously a lot of this comes from his fingers and musical vision but his ultra low set up really adds something as well.

I sometimes struggle to get a good sound out of his basses and notes choke on me all over the place but in his hands the same bass just sounds great.

With this in mind I think it's totally valid for him to go for the sound he can hear in his head and the playability he knows is available from the 'right' bass.

I'm not arguing with other people's viewpoints here so apologies if that's what it sounds like - just trying to put my views forwards on what seems to have become quite a personal topic.

[4000]

[quote name='molan' post='566624' date='Aug 12 2009, 11:27 AM']Not sure how many people have heard Josh play but I've had the pleasure of visiting him a few times and, most recently, playing along with him.

Personally I think he's a really talented musician (certainly a different league from me!).

When he really digs in and is playing funky gospel type stuff or soloing he has a very distinct sound that's very much his own.

Obviously a lot of this comes from his fingers and musical vision but his ultra low set up really adds something as well.

I sometimes struggle to get a good sound out of his basses and notes choke on me all over the place but in his hands the same bass just sounds great.

With this in mind I think it's totally valid for him to go for the sound he can hear in his head and the playability he knows is available from the 'right' bass.

I'm not arguing with other people's viewpoints here so apologies if that's what it sounds like - just trying to put my views forwards on what seems to have become quite a personal topic.[/quote]

Absolutely. People have told me before my action is too low but it works for me; I don't really play like many other players I've met. Too often people generalize about these things; it's down to what works for the muso in question. Flea used to have an action of 1/16th at the 12th E and had no problems with it. I'm sure guys like Matt Garrison get along fine with very low action too, and Entwistle had notoriously low action. Also remember, not everyone is looking for a big, round tone; I know I'm not.

My only query would be why Josh doesn't seem to want to consider going further afield for a set-up, but I'm sure he has his reasons.

[nobodysprefect]

So I guess it looked like a total my penis is like a freight train cuz I play the Real (Men's) Bass.

I've found there's not much like buying an upright for taking your expectations to a reasonable level. You buy the not-completely-sh*te upright for about £3000, then you buy a £100 string set so you can have a passable arco sound, the £500 bow, and of course the fingerboard needs to be dressed and the bass given a decent lookover for another £200. Add a pickup for £100 and at £3900 you have a bass that has probably somewhat terrigible action, won't sound good for 3 to 5 years even if you really apply yourself to opening up the bass with daily arco playing and the bastard just won't stay in tune at gigs with any kind of ventilation systems and wtf is up with that intonation changing on you every time you pack it up and take it to another building? The strings love to hang on the nut, the bridge threatens to collapse every time to stufff in it a car (sic), the finish can't take any sort of bumps without damaging and the fat f***er feedbacks like there's no tomorrow. Soundmen don't know what to do with it, the pianist wants you to sound like Ray Brown and Gary Peacock while he tromps all over your slice of the sonic spectrum and every funking w***er needs to come over and comment on how your intonation was off in that song (remember that ventilation system? it pumps cold air (or hot air if it's winter) all over your bass, making the untalkative but spankable damsel's tuning go up or down like a 5-year old on a slide) that the vocalist has decided sounds better in Db. Your instrument projects like a wet box of cardboard while the smug flautist pulls that silver pipe of his from his coat pocket and drowns you out. The drummer complains that your attack isn't that hot today and the guitarist keeps on urging you to fill more space while he solos for the 13th chorus of Mr P.C. when your luthier has pulled a prank on you and the bass is suddenly set up for orchestra arco playing.

So if a £1k electric isn't a total genocidal war every time you pick it up, I'd say you're getting your money's worth.

[OldGit]

[quote name='Gwilym' post='566290' date='Aug 11 2009, 09:55 PM']ah, you had a hand in it too? Certainly would consider dropping off a bass with him for a set up next time I head down the M4.[/quote]

Yeah he built it with my help. That's what I do in real life ...

He really does have a magic touch, IMHO.

[mike257]

I'm probably wildly off the mark here, but, if you like the feel of your Squier so much, but the tone sucks, surely the cost of some new hardware and electronics would be money well spent.

It's easier to radically overhaul the sound of a bass that already feels great, than to change the feel of a bass that sounds great (without mucking up it's tone). It no doubt won't end your quest for the perfect bass, but with the right mods, it'll leave you with a perfectly good, giggable instrument you can feel at home with until you do find 'the one'.

[velvetkevorkian]

[quote name='nobody's prefect' post='567585' date='Aug 13 2009, 07:58 AM']So I guess it looked like a total my penis is like a freight train cuz I play the Real (Men's) Bass.

I've found there's not much like buying an upright for taking your expectations to a reasonable level. You buy the not-completely-sh*te upright for about £3000, then you buy a £100 string set so you can have a passable arco sound, the £500 bow, and of course the fingerboard needs to be dressed and the bass given a decent lookover for another £200. Add a pickup for £100 and at £3900 you have a bass that has probably somewhat terrigible action, won't sound good for 3 to 5 years even if you really apply yourself to opening up the bass with daily arco playing and the bastard just won't stay in tune at gigs with any kind of ventilation systems and wtf is up with that intonation changing on you every time you pack it up and take it to another building? The strings love to hang on the nut, the bridge threatens to collapse every time to stufff in it a car (sic), the finish can't take any sort of bumps without damaging and the fat f***er feedbacks like there's no tomorrow. Soundmen don't know what to do with it, the pianist wants you to sound like Ray Brown and Gary Peacock while he tromps all over your slice of the sonic spectrum and every funking w***er needs to come over and comment on how your intonation was off in that song (remember that ventilation system? it pumps cold air (or hot air if it's winter) all over your bass, making the untalkative but spankable damsel's tuning go up or down like a 5-year old on a slide) that the vocalist has decided sounds better in Db. Your instrument projects like a wet box of cardboard while the smug flautist pulls that silver pipe of his from his coat pocket and drowns you out. The drummer complains that your attack isn't that hot today and the guitarist keeps on urging you to fill more space while he solos for the 13th chorus of Mr P.C. when your luthier has pulled a prank on you and the bass is suddenly set up for orchestra arco playing.

So if a £1k electric isn't a total genocidal war every time you pick it up, I'd say you're getting your money's worth.[/quote]
This post= win.

[molan]

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='568339' date='Aug 13 2009, 07:55 PM']This post= win.[/quote]

Certainly convinced me that not playing an upright was a sensible decision

[nobodysprefect]

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='568339' date='Aug 13 2009, 09:55 PM']This post= win.[/quote]

Since win = nude...

I DID have a routine where I played pedal notes on open strings while mock-fornicating with the upright. That was always a favourite with female audience. Or maybe not, can't quite recall.

[robocorpse]

[quote name='Josh' post='566446' date='Aug 12 2009, 02:00 AM']Yes, you are wrong.
I like boutique basses, sue me.
Me having a preference over a Jazz bass makes you laugh? You telling me to get a Rickenbacker makes me laugh just as much.[/quote]

Don't take me out of context! You said:
[i]"I think maybe all I need is just one high end Jazz and that should be it[/i]
Agreed, I think the Jazz is a GREAT choice, the Rickenbacker comment was only to wind you up, lighten up!

What made me annoyed was:
[i]"Not necessarily boutique but still rather sought after"[/i]
Which I can only take to mean you don't want to be seen with anything that isn't going to make someone else jealous. Why don't you stick with this magical Squier you were banging on about? It sounds like a damn fine instrument, and you aren't giving it a chance. I have played some Squiers in the past that have absolutely sh*t all over the equivalent Fender instruments for feel, playability, tone, weight, everything and 1/5 the price. Put some gaffa tape over the logo if it makes you happy. I used to collect, I have owned many of the "greats" (Status, Pedulla, Lakland, Zon, Alembic, Jaydee etc) and still I keep coming back to this tatty Epi Thunderbird because it is an absolute demon of a bass. If I want high fidelity, I bring out the Steinberger, which is also a joy to play, it looks like crap and is bashed to pieces but its a KILLER instrument.

[funkypenguin]

[quote name='nobody's prefect' post='567585' date='Aug 13 2009, 07:58 AM']So I guess it looked like a total my penis is like a freight train cuz I play the Real (Men's) Bass.

I've found there's not much like buying an upright for taking your expectations to a reasonable level. You buy the not-completely-sh*te upright for about £3000, then you buy a £100 string set so you can have a passable arco sound, the £500 bow, and of course the fingerboard needs to be dressed and the bass given a decent lookover for another £200. Add a pickup for £100 and at £3900 you have a bass that has probably somewhat terrigible action, won't sound good for 3 to 5 years even if you really apply yourself to opening up the bass with daily arco playing and the bastard just won't stay in tune at gigs with any kind of ventilation systems and wtf is up with that intonation changing on you every time you pack it up and take it to another building? The strings love to hang on the nut, the bridge threatens to collapse every time to stufff in it a car (sic), the finish can't take any sort of bumps without damaging and the fat f***er feedbacks like there's no tomorrow. Soundmen don't know what to do with it, the pianist wants you to sound like Ray Brown and Gary Peacock while he tromps all over your slice of the sonic spectrum and every funking w***er needs to come over and comment on how your intonation was off in that song (remember that ventilation system? it pumps cold air (or hot air if it's winter) all over your bass, making the untalkative but spankable damsel's tuning go up or down like a 5-year old on a slide) that the vocalist has decided sounds better in Db. Your instrument projects like a wet box of cardboard while the smug flautist pulls that silver pipe of his from his coat pocket and drowns you out. The drummer complains that your attack isn't that hot today and the guitarist keeps on urging you to fill more space while he solos for the 13th chorus of Mr P.C. when your luthier has pulled a prank on you and the bass is suddenly set up for orchestra arco playing.

So if a £1k electric isn't a total genocidal war every time you pick it up, I'd say you're getting your money's worth.[/quote]

My teacher spent some time waxing lyrical about the benefits of upright playing last term......thats well and truly shot down now

[alexclaber]

[quote name='robocorpse' post='569011' date='Aug 14 2009, 01:45 PM']Why don't you stick with this magical Squier you were banging on about? It sounds like a damn fine instrument, and you aren't giving it a chance.[/quote]

Yep. Bear in mind that wood is just wood - what sets apart Sadowskys from Squiers is that they are much fussier about the quality of wood used. However as both will have maple necks and similar body woods if you get lucky you could end up with a Squier that sounds identical to a Sadowsky when unplugged. Put good electronics in and reliable hardware and you have an amazing bass at an amazingly low price. With Sadowsky you pay for their outstanding QC but I bet if you spent a day in the Squier distributor's warehouse you could find one which sounded like a Sadowsky.

Alex

[alexclaber]

Though I admit I'd want to take the Squier logo off so I didn't suffer from other musicians pre-judging my tone.

Alex

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='569912' date='Aug 15 2009, 01:50 PM']Though I admit I'd want to take the Squier logo off so I didn't suffer from other musicians pre-judging my tone.

Alex[/quote]

I get amdly angry when the first thing someone does when they hold my basses is turn it round to see the headstock logo. I meight make some up with either something rude or 'Better than Fender' on it. My two main basses both have Johnson necks, cheapy cheaps, still fine instruments.

[4000]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='569910' date='Aug 15 2009, 01:49 PM']Yep. Bear in mind that wood is just wood - what sets apart Sadowskys from Squiers is that they are much fussier about the quality of wood used. However as both will have maple necks and similar body woods if you get lucky you could end up with a Squier that sounds identical to a Sadowsky when unplugged. Put good electronics in and reliable hardware and you have an amazing bass at an amazingly low price. With Sadowsky you pay for their outstanding QC but I bet if you spent a day in the Squier distributor's warehouse you could find one which sounded like a Sadowsky.

Alex[/quote]

+1.