General Recording Help

[Tait]

hi,

i've dabbled in recording a bit before, but never taken it really seriously. anyway, atm, basically when i record i plug my bass/guitar into my amp and whatever pedals i plan on using, then straight into my laptop which has reaper installed on it. for drums, my brother will use a line out from his electric drum kit straight into the laptop. for vocals, we plug the mic straight into the laptop.

we record drums first with a click track. then bass, either with or without a click track depending on what i feel like doing and what i'm better with. then we record guitars, then any other instrument we may use, then finally vocals.

after that, we cover up any mistakes, either record over them or copy that bar in another verse or whatever and drop it in in stead of the bar with a mistake.

then we use the effects on reaper to get it sounding better, usally we just use the one calls ReaEQ which is just an EQ screen to get the sound we like. this part is usually the quickest and easiest, because we've gone through amps when recording the track, so we're already close to what we want.

finally i mix the seperate tracks to what sounds good with me, and i show it to the others and they decide if thats ok or if they think anything else needs changing.

i'm just wondering what else you think is necessary, my bass teacher does a lot of recording and he has these huge desks and stuff, and obviously i can't afford them (i'm a 16 year old with a lot of free time and very little money ), but do i need anything like that to get it sounding better? are they necessary? is there anything else that would really make a difference to the quality of my recordings, even if its just a piece of advice, rather than equipment? if it is equipment, i'm seriously low on cash so how much of a difference will it make, and are there any cheap but decent ones out there? basically i'm just looking for general recording advice.

here's a song me and my brother wrote and recorded a while ago, like i said i've never taken recording too seriously before, so i probably didn't spend long editing and stuff with this, and sorry about the rubbish guitar solo, i'm a good rythm guitarist but soloing isn't my forte but it gives you a sort of idea of what our recordings sound like and the quality atm.

[attachment=29905:01_9_Till_5_Bore.mp3]

thanks!

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

You have a computer,so you can have those instruments(virtually)
if you had a mac,Garageband would be for you.(probably)
There are free things such as 'Audacity'
Also consider Cubase/Logic/ Line6 etc.

I've yet to use Logic which was given to me as a present . So much stuff, so little time

[Tait]

i use reaper, that does basically the same job as audacity and garageband doesn't it?

[butlerk02]

Hi Bud,

If you haven't got any spare money, why don't you see if there are any local colleges that offer part time music production courses, or contact a few local studios and ask if you can do some work experience. This way you get to learn new recording techniques on better equipment. It will also give you an idea of how you want to record and what equipment you might want to buy in the future.

One website that I really enjoy is [url="http://www.recordingreview.com"]http://www.recordingreview.com[/url] - It has a really good forum, and it explains all of the basics really well.

Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions about anything.

Cheers
Keith

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Tait' post='555538' date='Jul 29 2009, 08:22 PM']i use reaper, that does basically the same job as audacity and garageband doesn't it?[/quote]

yeh.

I would say the next step is to get some decent mics, which means a decent pre-amp or two, and then probably a decent audio interface. This is because working with mics and acoustic recording is far more difficult than recording DIs.

I was in the same position as you when I was 16. In retrospect, I should have gone to college and done a Btech in recording.

[ped]

Good tune - it feels a bit 'rushed' in terms of tempo, would like to hear it kicked back a tad. Nicely sums up my feelings about my ex though, so well done.

Great effort, keep it coming.

ped

[Tait]

[quote name='butlerk02' post='555670' date='Jul 29 2009, 10:18 PM']If you haven't got any spare money, why don't you see if there are any local colleges that offer part time music production courses, or contact a few local studios and ask if you can do some work experience. This way you get to learn new recording techniques on better equipment. It will also give you an idea of how you want to record and what equipment you might want to buy in the future.[/quote]
[quote name='cheddatom' post='555899' date='Jul 30 2009, 09:50 AM']I was in the same position as you when I was 16. In retrospect, I should have gone to college and done a Btech in recording.[/quote]

i'm going to college next year and part of me was considering taking music tech, they've got a massive studio with loads of great equipment. sadly i can't see myself ever doing a job involving music tech, so i'm taking more acedemic subjects.

[quote name='ped' post='556075' date='Jul 30 2009, 12:33 PM']Good tune - it feels a bit 'rushed' in terms of tempo, would like to hear it kicked back a tad. Nicely sums up my feelings about my ex though, so well done.

Great effort, keep it coming.

ped[/quote]

i can't really take credit for the song, my brother wrote the lyrics and sat down at a piano and wrote the main chords. i swapped a few chords to ones that sounded better, and just sort of added my own suggestions, but its his song really

anyway, thanks for the input guys, i realise acoustic recording is quite hard, tbh whenever we record we put the mic wherever, we don't really think about its placement at all. i'll have a loo into that.

cheddatom said something about an audio interface, i've heard of these but have no idea what they are. can anyone explain please?

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Tait' post='556700' date='Jul 30 2009, 11:44 PM']cheddatom said something about an audio interface, i've heard of these but have no idea what they are. can anyone explain please?[/quote]

Crudely speaking, it's a box you plug your mic or bass into. It's got stuff inside that converts your sound to digital, then shoves the digital up either a USB or a firewire cable into your PC / Mac. Quality's generally much better than the mic-in socket on your PC. Some are USB powered, some run off a wall-wart.

Usually has one, two or more inputs that accept a line, standard instrument cable or an xlr from your mic. Some have 48v switches which let you run a condenser mic - better quality for vocals, acoustic guitar etc than a dynamic mic.

Usually have a couple of line outs so you can run it into a monitoring amp / speakers, plus headphone out. Some also have midi in / out, which means you can shove a keyboard controller into it and run software synths, etc - useful if your bro plays keys. If his electronic kit has a midi out, you could also control software drum sounds.

If you're going to get some decent mics, etc, you might as well get one of these interfaces. Basic ones start at £50-60, better ones at £100+. I got a nice emu 0404 usb for £130.

The other thing to do is look at your room acoustics. There are some cheap and simple things that can help improve the sound of stuff coming through mics.

Check out Sound on Sound magazine's site and forum. Also tweakheadz.com - Lots of good stuff about all of this.

As for Reaper - IMHO, much better spec'd than garageband and even some of the big boys, (but more of a brainf**k to learn and can be processor intensive if you're running lots of plug-ins). If you've got this far with it, I'd personally stick with it.

[lateralus462]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='555899' date='Jul 30 2009, 09:50 AM']I was in the same position as you when I was 16. In retrospect, I should have gone to college and done a Btech in recording.[/quote]

Which is exactly what I did - twice!! (although the first couse I did was 50% performance as well)

[51m0n]

First of all - considering your level of knowledge and kit thats a great effort - and a really nice song, well done!!

Reaper is a fantastically powerful tool, you wont need more software for a very long time!

Listening to this you need the following kit:-

Decent audio interface
Decent mic for vox/general
Decent preamp (good idea if it takes line level as well as mic)

Decent need not cost the earth!!!!

Read a lot of reviews and check back with us first before buying.

OK in terms of the mix, you need to look at the Reacomp effect. Its a fantastic compressor that used properly will really control those dips in the vocal volume etc Sound on SOund have an online review/guide to it, but read up on how to use compressors first, they are tricky to get your head round, but vital pieces of kit.

You also could learn a bit more about using EQand frequency mixing to be honest.

Another must have is reverbate, which is a good reverb.

Finally did you know that Reaper has a superb inbuilt auto tuner? Look up Reatune in the manual. I'm not saying you need it or not, but its nice to know its there!

Also look downloading other good free vsts - there are huge numbers out there! (my favourite soft filters are free for instance)

If you send me the wavs/mp3s I'll do a Reaper mix for you and send it back. That way you can see what I've done with the effects to make it sound like it does. Hopefully I'll be able to give you some pointers. PM me if you want....

Track 1 on my myspace was recorded in Reaper with a drum kit VSTi called mydrumset which (used to be) free (might not be now).

[cheddatom]

Well I ended up doing a music tech degree at staffs. They have some great equipment and some allright studios, but you basically record 1 band in your 2nd year, and then you can do recording in your 3rd year if it's to do with your final year project. I went to learn about recording and basically just learned how to drug yourself into a whopping overdraft.

I've since gained experience recording independently and am making an album with my own gear, but just learning what I now consider the basics of recording and mixing was a tough struggle after 3 whole f*cking years at uni.

[lateralus462]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='557202' date='Jul 31 2009, 03:57 PM']Well I ended up doing a music tech degree at staffs. They have some great equipment and some allright studios, but you basically record 1 band in your 2nd year, and then you can do recording in your 3rd year if it's to do with your final year project. I went to learn about recording and basically just learned how to drug yourself into a whopping overdraft.

I've since gained experience recording independently and am making an album with my own gear, but just learning what I now consider the basics of recording and mixing was a tough struggle after 3 whole f*cking years at uni.[/quote]

That's actually one of the places I was looking at going after I finished my BTEC - unfortunately I got my girlfriend pregnant and had to go get a proper job!!

Edited July 31, 2009 by lateralus462

[51m0n]

Yeah I studied for 2 years at college, and new far more on recording when I went than they could teach. in fact they asked if I wanted to teach the course at one point

A few years before college I had paid a couple of local studios for private tuition (they were running what turned out to be superb courses) and then just got all the real experience I could sitting in, running whatever they needed. This is the days of 16 track reel to reel studios with a couple of rack uints being pretty nifty!

Then as computers have come along and made this stuff accessible I've realised how much a really good grounding in the theory behind eq, fx, mixing, compression etc is a huge bonus and a true differentiator between how I work and some other people I have worked with.

The results usully work out better quicker for me as a result.

[Tait]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='556745' date='Jul 31 2009, 01:58 AM']Crudely speaking, it's a box you plug your mic or bass into. It's got stuff inside that converts your sound to digital, then shoves the digital up either a USB or a firewire cable into your PC / Mac. Quality's generally much better than the mic-in socket on your PC. Some are USB powered, some run off a wall-wart.

Usually has one, two or more inputs that accept a line, standard instrument cable or an xlr from your mic. Some have 48v switches which let you run a condenser mic - better quality for vocals, acoustic guitar etc than a dynamic mic.

Usually have a couple of line outs so you can run it into a monitoring amp / speakers, plus headphone out. Some also have midi in / out, which means you can shove a keyboard controller into it and run software synths, etc - useful if your bro plays keys. If his electronic kit has a midi out, you could also control software drum sounds.

If you're going to get some decent mics, etc, you might as well get one of these interfaces. Basic ones start at £50-60, better ones at £100+. I got a nice emu 0404 usb for £130.

The other thing to do is look at your room acoustics. There are some cheap and simple things that can help improve the sound of stuff coming through mics.

Check out Sound on Sound magazine's site and forum. Also tweakheadz.com - Lots of good stuff about all of this.

As for Reaper - IMHO, much better spec'd than garageband and even some of the big boys, (but more of a brainf**k to learn and can be processor intensive if you're running lots of plug-ins). If you've got this far with it, I'd personally stick with it.[/quote]

thanks, that makes sense. so what are the advantages of an audio interface? i guess it just makes the quality better if its a digital signal?

you said being able to plug a keyboard controller into it is useful if my brother plays keys, why? is there any difference between that and just using a line out from my electric piano? or am i completely misuderstanding you?

[quote name='51m0n' post='557176' date='Jul 31 2009, 03:25 PM']First of all - considering your level of knowledge and kit thats a great effort - and a really nice song, well done!!

Reaper is a fantastically powerful tool, you wont need more software for a very long time!

Listening to this you need the following kit:-

Decent audio interface
Decent mic for vox/general
Decent preamp (good idea if it takes line level as well as mic)

Decent need not cost the earth!!!!

Read a lot of reviews and check back with us first before buying.

OK in terms of the mix, you need to look at the Reacomp effect. Its a fantastic compressor that used properly will really control those dips in the vocal volume etc Sound on SOund have an online review/guide to it, but read up on how to use compressors first, they are tricky to get your head round, but vital pieces of kit.

You also could learn a bit more about using EQand frequency mixing to be honest.

Another must have is reverbate, which is a good reverb.

Finally did you know that Reaper has a superb inbuilt auto tuner? Look up Reatune in the manual. I'm not saying you need it or not, but its nice to know its there!

Also look downloading other good free vsts - there are huge numbers out there! (my favourite soft filters are free for instance)

If you send me the wavs/mp3s I'll do a Reaper mix for you and send it back. That way you can see what I've done with the effects to make it sound like it does. Hopefully I'll be able to give you some pointers. PM me if you want....

Track 1 on my myspace was recorded in Reaper with a drum kit VSTi called mydrumset which (used to be) free (might not be now).[/quote]

reacomp, i'm guessing thats an effect on reaper? oh yeah, i've just had a look, i see it. i'll have to have a look at how to use a compressor because i have no idea what any of those buttons do. then i'll check out sound on sound's guide to it like you said.

what do you mean by frequency mixing? and as for EQ, any tips/advice please? especially for EQing my guitar, particularly an overdriven sound, which i don't think i use in this song, but i have in others. i can get a nice enough live sound on guitar, but on a recording it always sounds too fuzzy and too overdriven, and when i turn the gain down and volume up, it doesn't sound dirty and growly enough if you get what i mean? its something i meant to ask about in the original post but forgot, how to get a nice overdriven tone on a guitar when recording. both my guitars have seymour duncan s8 invader pickups (dual humbuckers) and i use a marshall guv'nor pedal for the overdrive. one of my guitars also has coil tap.

reverbate? do you mean ReaVerbate, the one on reaper, or something else? i'll have a mess around with reaverbate for now, get used to how it works and stuff.

i'll look up reatune, but atm i've got an electric tuner and i also use the one built into guitar pro. is there much point in me learning to use reatune or not?

whats a vst? and any suggestions for good ones that i ought to download? although the song i posted a link to is completely different, with my band i play a mix of punk and sort of classic rock, lots of solos and tiwddly bits, but the basic songs tend to be quite punk. i've not got any of them recorded, but thats what i'll be recording with my band.

do you want a wav/mp3 of each track? i'm not sure how to send them through basschat, but if you PM me your email adress i'll send them to you. hearing a mix by someone who knows a bit about recording would be great, i'd really appreciate it.

is it the track what it is that was recorded on reaper? i can already hear that sounds a hell of a lot more "professional" than my recording. also thats some great bass playing.

[ped]

FWIW lots of audio interfaces come with a decent recording programme. I recently got a Tascam one and it came with Cubase 4.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Tait' post='557297' date='Jul 31 2009, 05:19 PM']thanks, that makes sense. so what are the advantages of an audio interface? i guess it just makes the quality better if its a digital signal?[/quote]

Yes. Basically, the analogue to digital converters tend to be a higher spec. Plus, you can use a balanced XLR cable from the mic, and that helps with quality too.

[quote name='Tait' post='557297' date='Jul 31 2009, 05:19 PM']you said being able to plug a keyboard controller into it is useful if my brother plays keys, why? is there any difference between that and just using a line out from my electric piano? or am i completely misuderstanding you?[/quote]

You can take the line signal out of your electric keyboard and record it into the PC in the same way you're recording your bass - as an analogue electrical signal going down the wire. The sound and the performance are fixed recordings.

If you hook up a Midi-capable keyboard (or other controller), the PC doesn't actually 'hear' a sound coming in. It directly captures data about which key was hit, how hard and for how long. The PC shoves this raw data through a bit of synth software which, in turn, converts the data into sounds, which you hear as you play. Change the synth programme - change the sound.

And if you fancy expanding your sounds? You could go out and buy software written to model, say, an old Hammond B3, or a vintage Kurzweil, or whatever you like, and even apply to it to a previous performance. Loads of sounds out there.

Another benefit is that you can go in later and edit the performance data manually, thus changing the actual performance if you want to. But that's all a bit tech-head for me.

And I'm at the edge of my competence here, so for more on Midi, check out SOS mag or hope that someone more qualified than me shows up on this thread!

[Tait]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='557391' date='Jul 31 2009, 07:56 PM']Yes. Basically, the analogue to digital converters tend to be a higher spec. Plus, you can use a balanced XLR cable from the mic, and that helps with quality too.



You can take the line signal out of your electric keyboard and record it into the PC in the same way you're recording your bass - as an analogue electrical signal going down the wire. The sound and the performance are fixed recordings.

If you hook up a Midi-capable keyboard (or other controller), the PC doesn't actually 'hear' a sound coming in. It directly captures data about which key was hit, how hard and for how long. The PC shoves this raw data through a bit of synth software which, in turn, converts the data into sounds, which you hear as you play. Change the synth programme - change the sound.

And if you fancy expanding your sounds? You could go out and buy software written to model, say, an old Hammond B3, or a vintage Kurzweil, or whatever you like, and even apply to it to a previous performance. Loads of sounds out there.

Another benefit is that you can go in later and edit the performance data manually, thus changing the actual performance if you want to. But that's all a bit tech-head for me.

And I'm at the edge of my competence here, so for more on Midi, check out SOS mag or hope that someone more qualified than me shows up on this thread![/quote]

oh right, i understand. i've done a bit of messing around with reapers virtual midi keyboard doing that sort of thing, but i've hardly done any at all, first of all because its not very smooth sounding when you can either use laptop keys or click on it with your mouse, and secondly cos i wouldn't ever have to use that with the sort of music i play.

[51m0n]

[quote name='Tait' post='557297' date='Jul 31 2009, 05:19 PM']thanks, that makes sense. so what are the advantages of an audio interface? i guess it just makes the quality better if its a digital signal?

you said being able to plug a keyboard controller into it is useful if my brother plays keys, why? is there any difference between that and just using a line out from my electric piano? or am i completely misuderstanding you?



reacomp, i'm guessing thats an effect on reaper? oh yeah, i've just had a look, i see it. i'll have to have a look at how to use a compressor because i have no idea what any of those buttons do. then i'll check out sound on sound's guide to it like you said.

what do you mean by frequency mixing? and as for EQ, any tips/advice please? especially for EQing my guitar, particularly an overdriven sound, which i don't think i use in this song, but i have in others. i can get a nice enough live sound on guitar, but on a recording it always sounds too fuzzy and too overdriven, and when i turn the gain down and volume up, it doesn't sound dirty and growly enough if you get what i mean? its something i meant to ask about in the original post but forgot, how to get a nice overdriven tone on a guitar when recording. both my guitars have seymour duncan s8 invader pickups (dual humbuckers) and i use a marshall guv'nor pedal for the overdrive. one of my guitars also has coil tap.

reverbate? do you mean ReaVerbate, the one on reaper, or something else? i'll have a mess around with reaverbate for now, get used to how it works and stuff.

i'll look up reatune, but atm i've got an electric tuner and i also use the one built into guitar pro. is there much point in me learning to use reatune or not?

whats a vst? and any suggestions for good ones that i ought to download? although the song i posted a link to is completely different, with my band i play a mix of punk and sort of classic rock, lots of solos and tiwddly bits, but the basic songs tend to be quite punk. i've not got any of them recorded, but thats what i'll be recording with my band.

do you want a wav/mp3 of each track? i'm not sure how to send them through basschat, but if you PM me your email adress i'll send them to you. hearing a mix by someone who knows a bit about recording would be great, i'd really appreciate it.

is it the track what it is that was recorded on reaper? i can already hear that sounds a hell of a lot more "professional" than my recording. also thats some great bass playing.[/quote]

Reacomp, ReaVerbate, ReaEq are all Reaper specific fx.

Read in the manual how to set up an aux channel for reverb/chorus etc and send to it or you'll use up all your PC's power very quickly.

ReaComp, ReaEq are so called inline fx and are generally used 1 per channel or 1 per group of channels. Reaper lets you do either.

Frequency mixing is the art of eq'ing space in each instrmet for all the other instruments so everything stays clean and not a muddy mess, must do this to mix anything with more than a couple of sources really. EQ'ing is a deep subject mate, would take a while but I will post another time with a bunch of good tips...

Compressors (ie ReaComp) control peaks and dips in loudness (limiters are similar but far more overt)

VST's are other peoples fx that you can load into your system and use in Reaper. There are squillions of them! Many are free and good.

VSTi's are similar to VST's but actual virtual instruments (ie hammonds, or drumkits or bass guitars - really!)

Yes I'd need an mp3 of each track (lets not bother with wavs for this, I know mp3s dont sound as good, but this should be as much about showing you how to layout and use different fx as getting you a final mix...). When I'm done I'll email you back the Reaper project file (tiny), if youput that in the same directory as the tracks and start up Reaper and load that project you'll be away. I'll pm you my email addy....

[Tait]

what about this?

[url="http://www.bossus.com/gear/productdetails.php?ProductId=574&ParentId=325"]BOSS BR1600[/url]

my dad's got one of these, and i've recorded with it plenty of times before. i prefer reaper though, you can work in beats rather than seconds, you can snap to a grid that will make sure you click exactly on the beat, i can visualise a lot more easily which bit is which when editing and doing all the snipping and pasting etc. i basically just find reaper easier to use and more userfriendly. i'm sure you probably can do all this stuff with the boss, but i haven't worked it out yet and i'm happy with using reaper.

however, yesterday me and my brother went into this and out through the line out, for two reasons. 1) there was an effect on the BOSS that we wanted to use, and we'd already got the drums and bass down on reaper, so going through the BOSS then back out into reaper made sense. 2) you can set the volume levels with the BOSS, and a lot of time we were peaking, even when we had the volume on our amps right down. this way, we could turn up the amps to get a nicer tone, and still not peak and therefore distort the recordings.

i've got to say, it sounded noticably better. clearer, for a start. it just sounded more professional, like we'd taken the time to do it properly. it was just a better quality recording, what more can i say?

anyway, theres two things about the BOSS i wanted to ask you all about.

1) the fact it sounded better going through the BOSS has left me a bit stuck for what to do. do i start using the BOSS to record again? this would mean losing everything i said i like about reaper, but would probably result in better quality recordings (although i haven't tried recording straight into the BOSS again, and it's been ages since i've done it). do i forget the BOSS and keep using reaper as i was before? do i record onto the BOSS and export the different tracks onto reaper where i can then sort them out and do all the editing on reaper? or do i go through the hassel of going into the BOSS then out again? going in then out is the path i'm liking most, but i thought i'd run it by you all anyway, to see what you think. we've also got the [url="http://www.bossus.com/gear/productdetails.php?ProductId=753&ParentId=325"]BR600[/url] lying around somewhere, which is a hell of a lot more portable, but hasn't got the same effects and as many options or anything as the BR1600.

2) since i used the BOSS again to get good results, i looked around it again, looked up the specs and stuff on the website, where i found this under the tab "SPECS"

"[i][b]INTERFACE[/b]
DIGITAL IN: S/PDIF 16-24 bit (coaxial type)
DIGITAL OUT: S/PDIF 16-24 bit (coaxial type)
USB connecter (B type)[/i]"

i don't know what "S/PDIF 16-24bit (coxial type)" means, but it got me wondering whether the BOSS can be used as one of these audio interface things you said about? you said an audio interface converts an analouge signal into a digital signal, well does this mean that if i plug the mic into the BOSS and then go out through the DIGITAL OUT, the BOSS will have converted the analogue signal into a digital signal and then it will have worked as an interface? i may be completely off the mark here, i don't know, and i'm going on holiday tommorow so i haven't had time to check it out for myself and see if i can work out the answers for myself, so i could be completely wrong, but thats what it seems like to me?

if you go on the BOSS BR1600 link i posted earlier, then click on images, the last picture is of the back panel, and you can zoom right in and clearly see all of the inputs, the line out i used yesterday for recording, and the DIGITAL IN and DIGITAL out i'm asking about.

oh, by the way, thanks for all the advice so far, its been great and i've learnt loads.

[Rimskidog]

More than anything it sounds like you just need to practice the craft. It takes a lot of work to get record quality recordings. While good gear will take you a long way great technique will take you furtehr and faster. For that reason I wouldn't worry too much about upgrading gear until you think it's poor gear holding you back rather than the fact your techniques need work. I've written a bunch of tutorials on recording and mixing over on this site if you are interested: [url="http://forums.dv247.com/recording-mixing/"]http://forums.dv247.com/recording-mixing/[/url]. There are sections on everything mentioned above. Hope this helps!

[51m0n]

Listen to Rimskidog, he knows his business.

Get some really good books on the subject. Its a heavily technical one, backed up with a need to innately understand and feel the music to achieve the best technical and emotional result possible. Then there is the art of dragging the ultimate performance out of the talent on any given day/hour/minute/take. It is a real art - just like playing bass - and one that takes a lifetime to learn....

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Tait' post='558714' date='Aug 2 2009, 08:08 PM']i don't know what "S/PDIF 16-24bit (coxial type)" means, but it got me wondering whether the BOSS can be used as one of these audio interface things you said about?[/quote]

Without checking out the manual in detail, this [i]may[/i] be possible - depends on whether you've got an S/PDIF IN on your PC and whether the Boss's functionality supports this - which is kind of what you're asking.

TBH, dunno. It would def save a few bucks, though. My suspicion is that you'd probably get a single stereo signal out, so you'd have to pan one inst 100% on left, and the other 100% right. Then set up your reaper to save the incoming data to separate channels. Or something like that!

I'm def not an expert on these Boss Recorder items. Maybe sign up to the SOS forum and post your Q on there.

[Bottle]

If you're looking for a cheap-ish interface to get you started, there's the M-Audio Fast-Track Pro, which I currently use (there are other interfaces around for similar money and performance). It's a USB interface and comes bundled with Pro-Tools 7 M-Powered, but should work fine with Reaper. I use Audacity which is free, and great for recording ideas and basslines etc. Can export to WAV/MP3, and allows playout of recorded tracks whilst recording new tracks.

If you're then looking for multi-tracking live instruments all at the same time, an upgrade path would be to get a FireWire interface that supports maybe 8 inputs (MOTU would be a start)

Decent vocal mic - ubiquitous SM58/Beta 58 would work fine, then buy a condenser mic + pre when funds allow.

Decent stereo pre's, I would look at TL Audio etc.

HTH, Ian

[Tait]

thanks for the advice guys, just one last question.

i've seen somewhere about mic'ing up the amp when you record, rather than lining out. what are the pros and cons of each? as far as i can tell, the differences are a line out cuts out any back ground noise, whereas a mic will pick up background noise. but a line out doesn't take the cab size into account, as its not recording the sound coming out of the cab, just the sound coming out of the preamp. with a mic i expect the placement of the amp will make a difference, too, but i'm not sure.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Tait' post='571211' date='Aug 16 2009, 11:32 PM']thanks for the advice guys, just one last question. i've seen somewhere about mic'ing up the amp when you record, rather than lining out. what are the pros and cons of each?[/quote]

Sorry for the delay, haven't been by this thread recently. In brief - Micing up:

[b]Pro[/b]
* Gets speaker colouration into the equation
* Depending on which part of the speaker the mic's aimed at, you can get different sounds. Straight at centre - punchy. Off centre - plummier
* Depending on mic distance from speaker, room noise begins to creep in. Can be good for adding 'air' and 'naturalness' to the sound

[b]Con[/b]
* The noise pisses the neighbours off.
* Bass can bleed through into other instruments mikes and vice versa. Bass notes can make certain bits of drumkit rattle, adding to unwanted noises.
* You have to accurately replicate mic positioning if you go back later and re-record sections of bassline within the original song. Or for consistency between different songs
* Depending on mic distance from speaker, room noise begins to creep in. Can add unwanted noise. Room reflections can cause phase issues, spoiling your sound

On the whole, I'd personally DI the bass for the main take. Later on, you can solo the 'clean' bass track back out of Reaper to a bass amp and record the speaker output with a mic to a new track, then mix the two tracks using a reaper 'folder'. Sending the signal out and back will introduce a tiny delay, so your re-amped track will be fractionally behind the original. You'll have to accurately align the 're-amped' track [i]to[/i] the original DI recording so that they're [i]absolutely[/i] in sync or you'll get phasing noises and / or your tone will sound 'hollow'.

Edited August 19, 2009 by skankdelvar