Happy Jack Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) I've wondered for a while about the difference between the actual weight of a bass, and its perceived weight. The arrival of several 5-string basses over the past few months has caused me to think about this a lot recently. Arithmetically, a 10lb bass weighs twice as much as a 5lb bass. Logically, a 10lb bass should feel twice as heavy as a 5lb bass. Practically, a 5lb bass feels like there's nothing there while a 10lb bass gives you back-ache. Being of a spreadsheet persuasion, I tried messing about with a 'weighting' system to reflect my own experience, and came up with: 5 / 0.7 / 3.5 6 / 0.8 / 4.8 7 / 0.9 / 6.3 8 / 1.0 / 8.0 9 / 1.1 / 9.9 10 / 1.2 / 12.0 11 / 1.3 / 14.3 So a 5lb bass gets a weighting of 0.7 and feels like it weighs 3.5lbs, whereas an 11lb bass gets a weighting of 1.3 and feels like it weighs over 14lbs. Useful, but not quite right. To me, an 11lb bass feels like it weighs twice as much as an 8lb bass (e.g. my Roscoe Beck V vs my Fender Jazz), while a 5lb bass (like my Hofner Violin) feels a lot less than even 3.5lbs. So I tried assuming that my shoulders fail to recognise the first 5lbs of any bass and got: 5 / 5 / 0 6 / 5 / 1 7 / 5 / 2 8 / 5 / 3 9 / 5 / 4 10 / 5 / 5 11 / 5 / 6 Again useful, but not quite right. It has the Hofner as a feather-weight and the doubling in perceived weight from the 8lb bass to the 11lb bass. On the other hand, it's too straight-line and doesn't ramp up enough as the bass gets heavier. So then I combined the two approaches, with one feeding into the other, finally reaching: 5 / 5 / 0 / 0.7 / 0.0 6 / 5 / 1 / 0.8 / 0.8 7 / 5 / 2 / 0.9 / 1.8 8 / 5 / 3 / 1.0 / 3.0 9 / 5 / 4 / 1.1 / 4.4 10 / 5 / 5 / 1.2 / 6.0 11 / 5 / 6 / 1.3 / 7.8 All purely empirical of course, all incredibly subjective, but the table above gives a reasonable summary of what my tired old shoulders actually feel when I strap on a bass. Don't think of the last column as being actual weights, in pounds or kilos, just as relative burdens. Edited July 17, 2009 by Happy Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 While you were working all that out I got an electric drill and a jig saw and substantially reduced the weight of several of my basses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='EssentialTension' post='543200' date='Jul 17 2009, 01:55 PM']While you were working all that out I got an electric drill and a jig saw and substantially reduced the weight of several of my basses.[/quote] Sliced off the neck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I love this forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturm Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 while i was reading all this i got brain hurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='Happy Jack' post='543202' date='Jul 17 2009, 01:57 PM']Sliced off the neck? [/quote] No, sliced of the neck AND the body. Now the bass is so light it's unbearable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='sturm' post='543206' date='Jul 17 2009, 02:00 PM']while i was reading all this i got brain hurt[/quote] That will be because your brain is too heavy on your shoulders. I do have a cure if you're interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidbass Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Interesting thread! You just know it's going to be good when you start off a new paragraph with "being of a spreadsheet persuasion" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I'd like to apologise to the OP for not taking him seriously enough. Sorry Happy Jack. I couldn't follow your spreadsheet stuff but I take the point that there comes a point where the weight is more than can be taken, like the straw that breaks the camel's back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='EssentialTension' post='543573' date='Jul 17 2009, 08:41 PM']I'd like to apologise to the OP for not taking him seriously enough.[/quote] Dave, you have to be kidding me, right? I loved your posts - no worries at all, mate. Keep up the banter. As to the numbers thing, I love 'em. It's what I do for a living. But I'm well aware that they're a turn-off for most people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumble Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I have solved the weight problem with regards to bass playing and now never feel any aches or pains. I simply strap it to my manservant and tell him which notes to play, After a marathon 4 hour jam session I feel fresh as a daisy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='grumble' post='543605' date='Jul 17 2009, 09:17 PM']I have solved the weight problem with regards to bass playing and now never feel any aches or pains. I simply strap it to my manservant and tell him which notes to play, After a marathon 4 hour jam session I feel fresh as a daisy.[/quote] I expect the old manservant gives you a bit of rubdown too if you do need freshening up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumble Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) [quote name='EssentialTension' post='543613' date='Jul 17 2009, 09:23 PM']I expect the old manservant gives you a bit of rubdown too if you do need freshening up. [/quote] No, poor thing always seems to be on the verge of collapse nowadays. Maybe I should put him out pasture next year, they say 80 is a full working life. Edited July 17, 2009 by grumble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='Happy Jack' post='543596' date='Jul 17 2009, 09:13 PM']Dave, you have to be kidding me, right? I loved your posts - no worries at all, mate. Keep up the banter. As to the numbers thing, I love 'em. It's what I do for a living. But I'm well aware that they're a turn-off for most people. [/quote] Well, half kidding half not - just in case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='grumble' post='543605' date='Jul 17 2009, 09:17 PM']I simply strap it to my manservant and tell him which notes to play[/quote] In-ear monitors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='grumble' post='543605' date='Jul 17 2009, 09:17 PM']I simply strap it to my manservant[/quote] Well, just pop your 'manservant' on the table... [/Blackadder 2] A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumble Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='Alien' post='543663' date='Jul 17 2009, 10:58 PM']Well, just pop your 'manservant' on the table... [/Blackadder 2][/quote] I'm sure theres a joke about turnips in there somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 [quote name='EssentialTension' post='543200' date='Jul 17 2009, 01:55 PM']While you were working all that out I got an electric drill and a jig saw and substantially reduced the weight of several of my basses.[/quote] [quote name='skankdelvar' post='543203' date='Jul 17 2009, 01:57 PM']I love this forum[/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7string Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 I need a lie down after reading the beginning of this thread. I can say that a 14lb feels darn heavy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcrow Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 you havent factored in the weight of your shoulders in that its quite relevant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 [quote name='mrcrow' post='544804' date='Jul 19 2009, 05:41 PM']you havent factored in the weight of your shoulders in that its quite relevant [/quote] Please explain. Assuming that's a serious comment (I really can't tell), I don't follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Most of this over my head, but 10/10 for the best thread title ever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcrow Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Happy Jack' post='544971' date='Jul 19 2009, 10:23 PM']Please explain. Assuming that's a serious comment (I really can't tell), I don't follow.[/quote] i thought this was a bit of a spoof thread but i can explain your shoulders are part of the mechanism/structure and so have inherent weight dynamic calculations should include this when you play you move all mass is subject to newtonian principles in motion so your shoulders/strap/hands/cable etc are all in a sense contributing elements in any calculation for live loading the formulae are f=mv and P= mv^2/2g for momentum centripetal force vectors not included to round off i think a more comfortable strap can make a difference [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum[/url] yours guess i should lighten up a bit... Edited July 20, 2009 by mrcrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='mrcrow' post='545308' date='Jul 20 2009, 02:02 PM']i thought this was a bit of a spoof thread but i can explain[/quote] Sorry, that was my fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='mrcrow' post='545308' date='Jul 20 2009, 02:02 PM']your shoulders are part of the mechanism/structure and so have inherent weight dynamic calculations should include this when you play you move all mass is subject to newtonian principles in motion so your shoulders/strap/hands/cable etc are all in a sense contributing elements in any calculation for live loading the formulae are f=mv and P= mv^2/2g for momentum centripetal force vectors not included[/quote] Kinell, mate, I thought my numbers would be too heavy for most! Spoof thread? Not really, though it neither surprised nor annoyed me than some thought it was. I'm the sort of person who likes to measure/quantify an issue or problem and I have been genuinely struck by how much heavier an 11lb Roscoe Beck feels than a 9lb Shuker. Two pounds really isn't that much (bag of sugar, anyone?), so I was curious as to why it felt so different. I take your point about the weight and momentum of the shoulders, but for these purposes I'll disregard it. This is the same as my assumption that my shoulders "don't notice" the first 5lbs of weight added. The muscles and tendons already compensate for those values, and I suspect that this is why the perceived weight ramps up so quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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