Column/Array systems - small band

[andybassdoyle]

I'm a member of an Irish band. It's been going a while now and using a crappy old PA system which is large, heavy, difficult to use (ie no feedback) and sounds pretty rubbish.

 

I don't know anything about PA but I am considering proposing to the band that we replace it with something more modern, portable and easier for us to use.

 

My though was the array/column option looks quite a good option but I've no idea if this is correct or not. I think we would definitely need a separate mixer as there are 6 of us with a few doubling on vocals and one using 3 or sometimes 4 different instruments.

 

I tend to use an amp still so bass is less of a consideration. There is percussion but no kit - we tend to get away without micing this for the majority of gigs.

 

I think the key to all of this is that we would benefit from something, simple, easy to use and portable. We tend to play pubs and clubs mostly so I don't think we need a gazzillion terrawatts of firepower, just something to carry the vocals and reinforce the instruments.

 

Is anyone able to offer some thoughts on this scenario or suggestions as to a good way forward? Feel free to redirect me if there is already a thread for this scenario

 

Many thanks!

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Array column systems have their benefits, but...

The typical array column system places the mid/HF column above the sub, with no option for placing them apart. That means you can't place the subs and mains optimally, the subs close to the wall behind, the mains in the front of the stages.  The other 'but' is that they tend to be more expensive than separates. They are easy to use, and portable, but still far from ideal. For small clubs a pair of pole mounted ten inch mains and a fifteen inch sub works better and isn't all that difficult to use. IEM for monitoring is preferable to foldbacks, as they don't take up room on the stage nor do they add wiring clutter. 

[Al Krow]

Hey Andy, kinda thinking @Phil Starr's RCF 310A set up could be a neat, lightweight and very good sounding set up for you guys. I'll let him jump in with more detailed thoughts, which I'm sure he will be happy to give. 

 

@Woodinblack has base speaker plus array set up (also RCF I think), which will deliver a fuller sound, but may be more than you need, but could allow you to also go via the desk if you fancy doing that down the line. 

[Woodinblack]

Indeed - I love the RCF Evox 8s that I have, just two boxes, no extra poles or anything, turn up and plonk them down, connect them up to the mixer, or if you got a JMix8, which is basic but functional, one to the other, plug the power in, jobs done, no poles etc. Plenty loud for a pub or basic outdoor stuff (including the bass and bass drum going through them).

If you haven't got the one with the mixer in, get a basic digital mixer which are really cheap now, a XR18 (or even smaller), or even a flow 8. But if there are 6 of you and some instruments, something like an XR18 would give you a microphone each, all the instrument, then speakers to out, and 6 outputs to IEMs, or monitors, or the cheap P-16 personal IEM things (which are fantastic) for an individual mix.

That is what I have done a few hundred gigs on and no problems (actually the evoxs, probably still under 100 gigs, but the mixer and everyhing way over).

[Paul S]

My blues/rock trio also used a pair of RCF EVOX 8 units for about 5 years and they were absolutely brilliant.  Super easy and quick to set up, super easy and quick to pack down and, most importantly, sounded amazing.  Everything went through - 2x vocal, guitar, bass, drums.  Dispersion was incredible.  Pubs and clubs, mainly, but also some small outdoor stuff.  There is also the weird voodoo about not feeding back when placed at the back behind the mics.  No idea how or why but we only ever had a feedback issue once and it was easily solved.

[andybassdoyle]

thanks folks

 

you are both talking about a pair - is it essential to use two? silly question perhaps, I just have in my mind we probably don't need loads of power and I want to keep things as simply as possible (and not be lugging extra gear around)

 

would it make sense to start with one and add a second if we need more horsepower? or doesn't it work like that?

 

[Beedster]

10 minutes ago, andybassdoyle said:

thanks folks

 

you are both talking about a pair - is it essential to use two? silly question perhaps, I just have in my mind we probably don't need loads of power and I want to keep things as simply as possible (and not be lugging extra gear around)

 

would it make sense to start with one and add a second if we need more horsepower? or doesn't it work like that?

 

We've done very small gigs with one but I'd recommend two, and it's really not a lot of extra gear (two small rucksack-sized bags)

[Woodinblack]

24 minutes ago, andybassdoyle said:

would it make sense to start with one and add a second if we need more horsepower? or doesn't it work like that?

 

You can - only you know if it would work for you, if you don't have a loud drummer, maybe you can - we used to practice with just the one and it was loud enough, but obviously a large amount of people absorb sound quite a bit!

[warwickhunt]

I trialled a few systems for multiple uses (guitar/vocal - duo, guitar/bass/vocal trio, 4 piece band with acoustic drums) and even on the duo set ups I found that a pair (or even one) of pole mounted RCF310 out performed a pair of the array set ups (I borrowed a pair off a friend).  I elected to upgrade from the RCFs to QSC K10 speakers and a single speaker quite often sufficed for all of the duo work (we used the 2nd K10 as a monitor just running as the second main out so we hear what the audience hear but turned down at the speaker volume control).  The trio often got away with one speaker but the 2nd was there if needed and we used 2 K10s for the 4 piece (with drums) they generally worked for most venues but I did buy a small FBT sub for occasions when it was a big room for the full band.  

 

I know I'm focusing on the trad speakers over arrays but I could not have used the arrays for full band quiet gigs never mind louder situations and I genuinely found that a single good quality 10 (+horn) gave us a great sound and could be placed quite easily to give zero issues with feedback.  

 

Arrays patently work for lots of folk but don't dismiss small good quality trad cabs (which can be as easily transported).    

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

43 minutes ago, andybassdoyle said:

thanks folks

 

you are both talking about a pair - is it essential to use two? silly question perhaps, I just have in my mind we probably don't need loads of power and I want to keep things as simply as possible 

 

Using a pair isn't about power, it's about dispersion. That doesn't just apply to PA, it also applies to the instruments. For that reason I mic or DI everything, drums included, no matter the room size. Big sound doesn't mean loud sound, it means wide sound. Which brings up another point. If you have two subs they shouldn't be spread apart, they should be clustered, to prevent Power Alley (

). If your system doesn't allow that you'll have uneven bass in the room. 

[LawrenceH]

Thinking about conventional small PA speakers - in small pubs I've happily used a single Yamaha DXR8 to carry vocals/acoustic instruments. It's good to have two for those instances where the room is wide, but one is enough for a lot of small UK venues if you position and angle it right. Sometimes, by the time you've put two speakers up you've obscured more than half the performance area from view!