The future of amps & cabs - stage props only?

[SimonK]

So I went to see thes guys last night and they were great. I loved all the guitars on the stage (albeit the bass player only had one 5-string J bass which I thought let the side down regardless of how good he sounded!), but the complete lack of amps did take something away for me given the title of the show was "Ultimate Classic Rock". Aesthetically I think some Marshall stacks and probably an Ampeg/TE stack would have just finished the look - even if the cabs were empty.

 

I know there are some famous bands who have always bought additional empty cabs along for the look, but I do think I should start a campaign for all the digital modeller/IEM people out there to consider bringing amps & cabs along to gigs to serve as stage props!

 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Don't assume that if you can't see them that the amps and speakers aren't there. They may be back stage or under it, in isolation booths.

[Lozz196]

Yeah a few rig rundowns I’ve watched have shown speakers being under the stages.

[SimonK]

The guitarists were both using Line6 Helix's (Helices?). Bass player looked to have a tuner and preamp of some type but I couldn't get close enough to see.

 

I was idly thinking that flight cases should be painted to look like amps/stacks...

[BigRedX]

Fake amps and cabs as stage props are fine if you have a nice big truck/van for all the gear, but since my band ditched all our backline we've been able to get the whole band plus all our gear for playing live and our roadie/merch seller in a single estate car.

 

In the days when I was still using a big bass rig the only thing that took up more room in the van was the drum kit.

[PinkMohawk]

I do think there's a visual loss with the move to modellers over traditional amps. Unless a lot of time and thought has gone into a stage design, to the point that having your amps and cabs on the stage would actually take away from the overall look of things. But, on the other hand, as Red says, it's now also a lot more possible to get to gigs in smaller vehicles, less vehicles, etc. which is a big money saver for a lot of people. Perhaps the middle ground is venues buying cheap empty cabs to fill the back wall of the stage with? 

[chris_b]

I went Tomorrow’s World with bass gear about 15 years ago. Modellers and IEM's? That's all Jules Verne to me. I'm already living in the future of amps and cabs. What's not to love, properly designed 22lb 600 watt cabs and 5lb 500 watt amps.

 

I do have a problem with the OP criticising  the bass player for only using 1 bass all night!!! Less is always more.

Edited Saturday at 14:18 by chris_b

[tauzero]

26 minutes ago, chris_b said:

I do have a problem with the OP criticising  the bass player for only using 1 bass all night!!! Fewer is always more.

 

FTFY.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

I do have a problem with the OP criticising  the bass player for only using 1 bass all night!!! Less is always more.

I've never owned more than one bass at a time. For that matter I've only owned a total of four since 1965, 25 years with my current bass.

[Lozz196]

25 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

I've never owned more than one bass at a time. For that matter I've only owned a total of four since 1965, 25 years with my current bass.

Membership revoked!!

[snorkie635]

2 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

I've never owned more than one bass at a time. For that matter I've only owned a total of four since 1965, 25 years with my current bass.

I've been with my current bass for 47 years Bill, but over that period, have owned around another 1965! 😂

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

2 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

Membership revoked!!

Old yank proverb: If it ain't broken don't fix it!

[Lozz196]

I wish I were the same Bill, though I do have a bass at the moment that I bought new in 2015 which I’ll never sell (unless things determine otherwise of course).

[Acebassmusic]

6 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Old yank proverb: If it ain't broken don't fix it!

 

Old British proverb: If it aint broke, you're not trying hard enough! 🤣🤣

[Bassman68]

Did my first gig with backline for over 18 months, Saturday night…..

Didn’t like it!
My usual gigging set up is IEM’s on theatre stages, this was a small pub gig.

I couldn’t get used to the dynamics of a cab behind me, it all sounded unbalanced?
I’ve sold up most of what backline I possessed admittedly, so only had a MB head & 15” cab & the stage was quite small, so most of the sound was going past my knees.

I was sending a feed to FOH as well, so my amp was only for monitoring purposes, but with trying to listen out for click,vocals & electronic drums, it all sounded too live to me! 😄

The answer should’ve been to go IEM but the last time the band played at the venue, we ran everything IEM but suffered with wi-fi issues ..

[joel406]

Careful...

 

This kinda talk will bring out the pitchforks and torches from people who don't like your kinda thinking.

[SimonK]

35 minutes ago, joel406 said:

Careful...

 

This kinda talk will bring out the pitchforks and torches from people who don't like your kinda thinking.

 

We all know the real reason why some people like IEM's over bringing proper cabs 😈🤘:

 

 

 

[Tech21NYC]

It's really sad to me that playing live has become this. While I do "get" that in certain instances for a "show/performance" like Taylor Swift, Beyonce, Lady Gaga etc this might make sense. For the most part much of it comes down to inexperienced sound techs and musicians that don't know how to differentiate between a live performance and a studio recording. It's also part economics. For smaller acts that can't afford to travel with their gear it provides an option.

 

Think about this. You have a live drum kit that has no volume control. It's typically the loudest instrument on stage and yet the instruments with volume controls like guitar, bass and keys are all direct? I can turn down my 100 watt guitar amp to a quiet enough volume in my living room while watching TV, can the average drummer play that softly? While the plexi helps reduce the volume (I use an attenuator as well as plexi shields with my guitar rig) but even at that a loud drummer will still be loud no matter what. 

 

For myself their are only a handful of situations where I've agreed to not use an amp. Musical theater gigs and certain studio situations. I play better when using an amp. That's the point of the gear. To allow you to play and perform your best. It doesn't have to be loud to work. 

 

 

[PinkMohawk]

31 minutes ago, Tech21NYC said:

It's really sad to me that playing live has become this. While I do "get" that in certain instances for a "show/performance" like Taylor Swift, Beyonce, Lady Gaga etc this might make sense. For the most part much of it comes down to inexperienced sound techs and musicians that don't know how to differentiate between a live performance and a studio recording. It's also part economics. For smaller acts that can't afford to travel with their gear it provides an option.

 

Think about this. You have a live drum kit that has no volume control. It's typically the loudest instrument on stage and yet the instruments with volume controls like guitar, bass and keys are all direct? I can turn down my 100 watt guitar amp to a quiet enough volume in my living room while watching TV, can the average drummer play that softly? While the plexi helps reduce the volume (I use an attenuator as well as plexi shields with my guitar rig) but even at that a loud drummer will still be loud no matter what. 

 

For myself their are only a handful of situations where I've agreed to not use an amp. Musical theater gigs and certain studio situations. I play better when using an amp. That's the point of the gear. To allow you to play and perform your best. It doesn't have to be loud to work. 

 

 

I 100% agree. I'll even offer up an alternative perspective. Currently, I'm doing the Sound, Light and Live Event Engineering course at Derby Uni. One of my lecturers is a guy named Jon Burton. You might not know this name, but odds are good you've heard his work, he's spent the last few decades as The Prodigy's touring sound engineer. He's also engineer for Biffy Clyro, and a number of other acts I won't bother naming because I haven't got the time. 

 

Last year, we as a class went to have a look at the Biffy Clyro shows in London, where they were playing their first few albums in full, a different album each night. During his explanation of what was going on, the guitar tech started checking the guitar rig, and you would not believe the amount of volume coming out of the cabs. Simon Neil runs three separate rigs, and when he wants to add more intensity, he doesn't swap to another amp and cab, he simply adds them to what he was already playing through. 

 

Naturally, we all wanted to know "Why are you using amps when you could just use modellers and have a quiet stage?". He told us they'd tried it, and they hated it, but they persisted for a while because they thought that they had to. Until he came in and said "Well, if you hate it, just use your amps, we'll figure it out at the desk." 

 

Anyway, moral of the story is, the right engineer can work with you to make sure that you're comfortable on stage, and that you're sounding your best, even if you want to drag your big rig with you everywhere you go. He intentionally sacrificed a little vocal clarity to make sure that the performers were as comfortable on stage as possible, because he knew that it'd make the actual performance that much better. 

[joel406]

3 hours ago, SimonK said:

 

We all know the real reason why some people like IEM's over bringing proper cabs 😈🤘:

 

 

 

Yes. You're doing it wrong.

[SimonK]

36 minutes ago, joel406 said:

Yes. You're doing it wrong.

 

Mind you I think Trace Elliot had an ad that alleged turning up the gain on their amps resulted in nearby women losing their clothing:

 

 

Edited 1 minute ago by SimonK