My preamp saga has come to an end (or has it?!)

[thisisswanbon]

TL;DR - I have a problem.

 

So I've been on a bit of a preamp journey since going direct to FOH, and I feel like it's finally come to an end! It seems a shame to just let it be done without taking the excuse to be a bit self indulgent and talk about some fantastic pedals... so here we go!

 

My epic tone quest begins in March '23, with my band buying a new P.A. System. I'd forever been in a cycle of buying bass amps to suit my barefaced Big twin II (which I hated), and decided the new PA was an excuse to go direct to FOH. Enter... Hotone Ampero Stomp II!

 

 

I'd had little success with the HX stomp previously, but looking at the spec sheet thought this HAD to be a winner. After a brief bit of setting up it sounded fantastic, with a great lively quality to the sound. As has often happened with me though; I see digital, I hear digital. This coupled with option paralysis and meant it had to go... enter, Mark Bass Vintage Pre!

 

 

What a bloody good bit of kit this is! The tube really adds a warmth and punch to the sound that I've not gotten elsewhere. There was a mid quality to this that I LOVED! Didn't like the preset eq voices, but didn't use them. Found I had to have the gain too low for my c4 patches and lost alot of headroom, and when turning the gain up the clipping was very digital and didnt have that expected tube character. And so it went... enter, Ampeg SGT DI!

 

 

What a sound! This thing was monstrous! Didn't like the digital cab sims, but thought they were a nice inclusion. The SGT circuit though had a life and weight that was unbelievable! Found the gain staging to be a bit fiddly, felt cheated that I wasn't using the cab sims, and the lads in the band saying they couldn't really tell the difference made me think £370 is a bit much to make myself smile. And so, back it went... enter, Laney Digbeth Preamp!

 

 

I cannot believe the quality of this thing for £140 new! It's so feature rich and well built; 3.5mm aux in and phones out, 4 band eq with selectable low mids, dual mixable channels, fx loop, really useful tilt eq... the list goes on!

 

I still had the Ampeg when I bought this, with a view of best pedal stays. I can't say this bested the ampeg, or the mark bass, or the hotone; they all brought a genuinely different tonal palet to the table. The thing that won out on the laney was this weight and body to each note. There's a space to the note with both channels on that gives it a real amp like feel. It put the same smile on my face as the mark bass and ampeg, at a fraction of the price!

 

I'm obsessed with pedals, so no doubt somewhere down the line I'll want the latest and greatest, but for now I'm content at last!

Edited November 12, 2023 by thisisswanbon

[LukeFRC]

There’s some preamp shootout video on YouTube with all the biggest names and the Digbeth shone out on that to my ears

 

 

 

[LukeFRC]

Actually that comment is fairly useless without this 

 

[Supernaut]

I've always had a soft spot for the MXR M81 - fantastic preamp for clean tones. 

[thisisswanbon]

9 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

There’s some preamp shootout video on YouTube with all the biggest names and the Digbeth shone out on that to my ears

 

 

 

I watched that video more times than I'd like to admit...

[Baloney Balderdash]

There's a saying in Texas tenacy that goes: "Fooled twice, thrice the charm".

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[MrDinsdale]

The Digibeth sounds great, especially for the price. I the ability to have a great sounding board that you wouldn’t have to remortgage you house to replace is even more valuable.
 

Rusty Box is the one preamp I’ve really wanted for ages but just never have the funds when they come up. That or they’re just as much as buying new.

 

The search for the perfect preamp is never truly over 

[SumOne]

1 hour ago, MrDinsdale said:

The search for the perfect preamp is never truly over 

 

I've come to that conclusion for almost evey material thing.....but perhaps I need to try harder to fight the capitalist/materialistic system! 

 

 

 

[warwickhunt]

After watching 'most' of that preamp video it makes me happy with the capture/profiles I've made of my amps with the Kemper!  LOL

[tauzero]

After watching the first runthrough on that preamp video (admittedly using laptop speakers), I can't think of any reason at all that I would want a preamp.

[markbunney]

I have the Tech 21 Steve Harris preamp and love it, I've got my eye on one of the new Frank Bello ones as well, but not sure how much different it will be to warrant the expenditure.

[Supernaut]

2 hours ago, tauzero said:

After watching the first runthrough on that preamp video (admittedly using laptop speakers), I can't think of any reason at all that I would want a preamp.

I think an outboard preamp (with DI) is essential for any gigging bass player. 
 

The preamp is the FOH tone - the sound person usually takes the DI out from there or a house DI box is put between the preamp and the amp on stage. 
 

The preamp can be used to control the FOH sound and the amp on stage can be used to control the stage sound. That way you can EQ properly for two different environments. 
 

How I've always done it. 

[tauzero]

3 hours ago, Supernaut said:

I think an outboard preamp (with DI) is essential for any gigging bass player. 
 

The preamp is the FOH tone - the sound person usually takes the DI out from there or a house DI box is put between the preamp and the amp on stage. 
 

The preamp can be used to control the FOH sound and the amp on stage can be used to control the stage sound. That way you can EQ properly for two different environments. 
 

How I've always done it. 

 

My bass doesn't go through the PA and we don't play venues where it's likely to, and any messing around with tone can be done in whichever multifx I'm using, or the amp, so an outboard preamp is completely unnecessary for me.

[paulo m]

My experience's with outboard preamps has been that virtually all of the units really mess' with your instruments core sound & colour them way to much... & not in a positive light. 

As soon as you engage them' for myself you've lost something that's coming off your hands.... & the price of these so called 'Tone Monsters' is high indeed

GK Plex' Darkglass' Tech21' EBS Microbass 3' Sadowsky' Lehle' etc' etc.. 

Edited November 19, 2023 by paulo m

[warwickhunt]

2 minutes ago, paulo m said:

My experience's with outboard preamps has been that virtually all of the units really mess' with your instruments core sound & colour them way to much... & not in a positive light. 

As soon as you engage them' for myself you've lost something that's coming off your hands.... & the price of these so called 'Tone Monsters' is  well.... a total Rip off. 

 

Do you play purely acoustic instruments with no means of electronic amplification?

[Baloney Balderdash]

4 minutes ago, paulo m said:

My experience's with outboard preamps has been that virtually all of the units really mess' with your instruments core sound & colour them way to much... & not in a positive light. 

As soon as you engage them' for myself you've lost something that's coming off your hands.... & the price of these so called 'Tone Monsters' is  well.... a total Rip off. 

Yes, and pickups are even worse in that regard.

[paulo m]

9 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

 

Do you play purely acoustic instruments with no means of electronic amplification?

No' I use electric instruments & all of our experiences may vary depending on what we are looking for in tone. 

It's subjective & I've witnessed Orchestral Upright acoustic players refusing to use external devices for the reasons I've stated. 

[Baloney Balderdash]

On a more serious note, personally I make use of an "amp-less" setup, with the main preamp device being a NUX Melvin Lee Davis Bass preamp + DI, which I am extremely satisfied with.

 

It's digital, but of really high quality, and got 3 different amp emulations to chose from, I use the Aguilar Tone Hammer one, and 8 stock IR based cab sims, with 8 additional slots for 3rd party IR cab sim files, I use the stock Ampeg SVT-212AV one, and with the build in overdrive set to an always on rather low gain setting and mixed with parallel clean signal at a 50/50 ratio.

 

Though I do additionally have a tube preamp stage at the very start of my signal chain running into it, then a subtle spring reverb emulation just before it, and an additional tube preamp/DI stage running after it, as the very last thing before the poweramp/PA. 

 

But really the NUX sounds great all on its own as well, and is truly amazing value for the money.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[MrDinsdale]

I’ve got multiple preamps, some have more impact than others on EQ. The Capo is by far the cleanest offering some eq adjustments and adding/enriching some harmonic content (when you’re bypassing the gain focused side of the pedal). Obviously some add more grit and drive, some have pretty pronounced baked in eq curves. In my experience pickup and string choice has a much bigger impact on the fundamental sound of my bass than the preamp assuming it’s relatively flat.

Edited November 19, 2023 by MrDinsdale

[LukeFRC]

26 minutes ago, paulo m said:

My experience's with outboard preamps has been that virtually all of the units really mess' with your instruments core sound & colour them way to much... & not in a positive light. 

As soon as you engage them' for myself you've lost something that's coming off your hands.... & the price of these so called 'Tone Monsters' is high indeed

GK Plex' Darkglass' Tech21' EBS Microbass 3' Sadowsky' Lehle' etc' etc.. 

you realise the first stage of a mixing desk channel is a preamp? 
unamplified orchestra or folk I get where you’re coming from, but if you want a very clean approach for acoustic then there are preamps that will do that. Grace Felix comes to mind. 
Where you do have a point I think is that everything does something to your tone - bass forums are quite good at jumping on the latest greatest thing but less good at articulating what the desirable thing it’s doing is and why and for what kind of music. 

[Supernaut]

56 minutes ago, paulo m said:

My experience's with outboard preamps has been that virtually all of the units really mess' with your instruments core sound & colour them way to much... & not in a positive light. 

As soon as you engage them' for myself you've lost something that's coming off your hands.... & the price of these so called 'Tone Monsters' is high indeed

GK Plex' Darkglass' Tech21' EBS Microbass 3' Sadowsky' Lehle' etc' etc.. 

Try the MXR M81. I know exactly where you're coming from. 

[MrDinsdale]

1 hour ago, LukeFRC said:

you realise the first stage of a mixing desk channel is a preamp? 
unamplified orchestra or folk I get where you’re coming from, but if you want a very clean approach for acoustic then there are preamps that will do that. Grace Felix comes to mind. 
Where you do have a point I think is that everything does something to your tone - bass forums are quite good at jumping on the latest greatest thing but less good at articulating what the desirable thing it’s doing is and why and for what kind of music. 

Yeah I think people are quick misuse buzzwords like “transparent” when they actually mean a sound they enjoy.

 

I’ve even seen people describing Darkglass stuff and the Sansamp as transparent or natural sounding which is the last way I’d describe them!

[Baloney Balderdash]

24 minutes ago, MrDinsdale said:

Yeah I think people are quick misuse buzzwords like “transparent” when they actually mean a sound they enjoy.

 

I’ve even seen people describing Darkglass stuff and the Sansamp as transparent or natural sounding which is the last way I’d describe them!

Just as certain people are quickly to judge you as one of those people, or of the opinion that such words has no meaning.

 

People misusing terms or having no idea what they talk about, randomly spewing around random buzzwords, is nothing new, and is not specific to people who play bass either, doesn't however mean that words are meaningless, or can't be used to describe sound/tone in a meaningful way.

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[MrDinsdale]

42 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Just as certain people are quickly to judge you as one of those people, or of the opinion that such words has no meaning.

 

People misusing terms or having no idea what they talk about, randomly spewing around random buzzwords, is nothing new, and is not specific to people who play bass either, doesn't however mean that words are meaningless, or can't be used to describe sound/tone in a meaningful way.

 

Not sure I ever suggested those terms don’t have meaning, merely agreeing with @LukeFRC that people often struggle to articulate the nuance of tone and sound. You should take peoples opinions on forums with a pinch of salt.

[Baloney Balderdash]

3 hours ago, MrDinsdale said:

Not sure I ever suggested those terms don’t have meaning, merely agreeing with @LukeFRC that people often struggle to articulate the nuance of tone and sound. You should take peoples opinions on forums with a pinch of salt.

You didn't, and I don't think that I was in any way suggesting so either.

 

I wasn't really arguing with you, I was elaborating in a similar line of thought.

 

I nowhere in that reply said I disagreed with you, quite on the contrary I think.

 

The stuff I said build upon your conclusion. 

 

I don't agree with the notion that you should mistrust everyone's opinion in general on forums though, just access whether the specific person and in the specific post in question sounds like they know what they are talking about or not.

 

You know just be sensibly critical in general.

 

Some specific posts, and I guess certain specific posters in general, should be taken with a pinch of salt, sure, but not every single opinion, poster and post.

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash