Kemper for dummies... or at least me.

[warwickhunt]

As I age disgracefully, I've decided to move away from backline/amps etc and go down the route of Kemper Profiler into PA and either a split feed to my personal QSX K10 monitor or to my QSC from the PA Aux send.  I realise it is a (very) steep learning curve but I'm finding instruction/guidance on the basics to be thin on the ground.  I assume the average user of kit like this won't be a mature person like myself and they'll be diving straight in at the deep end but if anyone has any good resources/sites where the basics gets covered it'd be great to know.  I'm aware Kemper do tutorials but they are for things like capturing etc and not the mundane stuff like how you'd use this on a basic level.  

[BigRedX]

I'm a Line6 Helix (similar idea, different manufacturer) user and I'm now in my 60s - but then again I've been using the tonal components of multi-effects units for my core sound rather than characteristics of whatever amp and cab(s) I've been using since the late 80s.

 

What I would say is not go down that rabbit hole of trying the compare the modelled sounds with those of the "real thing". As far as I am concerned there are only two types of sounds - ones you like, and ones you don't; and how they are derived as far as I am concerned is irrelevant. And don't be tied to bass amp and cab models. A lot of my patches don't use any amp or cab sims, but  separate EQ and drive/distortion "pedals" which allows me to "decouple" the EQ frequencies from the drive sound and pick an EQ module that give me control of the frequencies I like and a drive/distortion that has the right sound for the band/song/song section. Also when I am using an Amp sim it is often one "designed" for the guitar. When everything is modelled the worst that can happen is that you won't like the sound, in which case you can try something else instead.

 

The way I work when constructing new sounds is to build them up one segment at a time. I start with EQ then drive and then compression (if the sound needs it). I do most of my basic set up using a computer editor and then fine tune the patches when I get in the rehearsal room and can hear them in the context of the band mix.

 

Good luck!

[warwickhunt]

First 'revelation' for me was knocking the cab sim off many of the sounds improved it massively!  With cab engaged many of the stock bass tones seemed compressed to heck or they sounded like I was listening to them through a wooly blanket.  I selected a couple of 'standard' captures (Tech Amp among them) from Tech 21, Eden etc, though it took some getting used to the fact they were all labelled with an oblique name to ensure no copyright issues.  After loading those onto profiles I went in and tweaked EQ/drive a little but tbh if I didn't like the core sound I passed over it.

 

Just getting my head around the way to use it live, luckily I only use a couple of core sounds and I put effects on only a couple of songs... which leads me to wonder if it is overkill having a Kemper but it seems to be doing what I want.   

[BigRedX]

For me the Helix really brings home how much of a compromise traditional bass rigs are and often with the amp sound you are fighting against the limitations of the cabs.

 

Devices like the Kemper and Helix are never overkill if they are delivering the sound you want, even if it's just a single sound with slight variations for the whole set.

 

I currently have a separate Preset (the Helix terminology for a patch) for each song, sometimes with up to 4 "Snapshots" variations for the different sections in the song, so I'm getting a lot of milage out of the various features. However even if I found that I all I needed was a single (killer) sound for the whole set, I'd still be using the Helix because it is essentially "my sound" in a single easily transportable box.

[EBS_freak]

1 hour ago, warwickhunt said:

First 'revelation' for me was knocking the cab sim off many of the sounds improved it massively!  With cab engaged many of the stock bass tones seemed compressed to heck or they sounded like I was listening to them through a wooly blanket.  I selected a couple of 'standard' captures (Tech Amp among them) from Tech 21, Eden etc, though it took some getting used to the fact they were all labelled with an oblique name to ensure no copyright issues.  After loading those onto profiles I went in and tweaked EQ/drive a little but tbh if I didn't like the core sound I passed over it.

 

Just getting my head around the way to use it live, luckily I only use a couple of core sounds and I put effects on only a couple of songs... which leads me to wonder if it is overkill having a Kemper but it seems to be doing what I want.   

Kemper for bass, I always prefer using mic pres. That's where I think basses can really be made to sing. Like you, I don't really like cab models for basses.

[tauzero]

7 hours ago, warwickhunt said:

First 'revelation' for me was knocking the cab sim off many of the sounds improved it massively!

 

I found exactly the same with the HX Stomp - with cab sims, chorus was inaudible, without them it was clear.

[warwickhunt]

Kemper users... I am getting no output from the 1/4" main outputs, any obvious rookie mistakes?  

 

I am getting output from the monitor and direct out sends and I've checked using the output soft button that the volumes are linked and display showing as being up.    

 

Off to post on the Kemper site as well.  

 

[EBS_freak]

9 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

Kemper users... I am getting no output from the 1/4" main outputs, any obvious rookie mistakes?  

 

I am getting output from the monitor and direct out sends and I've checked using the output soft button that the volumes are linked and display showing as being up.    

 

Off to post on the Kemper site as well.  

 

Make sure you routing is set up to go out through the main outputs. (configured in system if my memory serves me correct - I'm not with my Kemper - press output button, then it appears on screen (Main output?) and twiddle the knob which lines up with it). 

Edited November 11, 2023 by EBS_freak

[warwickhunt]

11 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Make sure you routing is set up to go out through the main outputs. (configured in system if my memory serves me correct - I'm not with my Kemper - press output button, then it appears on screen (Main output?) and twiddle the knob which lines up with it). 

 

You absolute star.  

 

When I clicked on the output soft button I was unaware there were 9 pages/screens, I was just viewing whatever was viewed last.  I paged back and found the main out was configured to something odd, as soon as I scrolled through to another option it pinged up.  

 

Many thanks! 

 

[warwickhunt]

Just as an aside!

 

I profiled my Tech Soundsystems Blackcat today... I'd really appreciate some feedback as to the overall tone.  Is it as simple as exporting that tiny file and attaching on this thread?  

 

I'll not say what settings or method I used as I didn't EQ or manipulate it to get 'my' tone.  I just set it up, pressed 'go' and let it do its thang.  

[warwickhunt]

Bass Tech Blackcat + TKS15 - 2023-11-11 14-49-28.kperformance

 

Oh and yes, I did use my TKS 1x15 cab. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by warwickhunt

[warwickhunt]

Just when I thought I had it... 

 

I have rigs all set up etc and all sounding fine and dandy through headphones but I've gone to use the Kemper Profiler hooked up (via main out) to my QSC monitor and it's immediately apparent that the input sensitivity is all to pot!  When I load any rig/profile (I'll get used to terminology), I have to turn down the input gain dial otherwise all/any of the rigs I dial up are overdriven.  Turning them right down to about 1 or 2 sorts it but I can't imaging you'd have a range of 0 - 10 if everything had to be used on '1'.  

 

Having typed this I'm off to see if swapping to the monitor out remedies this or if there is a global setting on the input soft button.   

[warwickhunt]

55 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

Just when I thought I had it... 

 

I have rigs all set up etc and all sounding fine and dandy through headphones but I've gone to use the Kemper Profiler hooked up (via main out) to my QSC monitor and it's immediately apparent that the input sensitivity is all to pot!  When I load any rig/profile (I'll get used to terminology), I have to turn down the input gain dial otherwise all/any of the rigs I dial up are overdriven.  Turning them right down to about 1 or 2 sorts it but I can't imaging you'd have a range of 0 - 10 if everything had to be used on '1'.  

 

Having typed this I'm off to see if swapping to the monitor out remedies this or if there is a global setting on the input soft button.   

 

I'm posting my own answers in case anyone searches in the future with the same issues! 

 

I have been mistakenly setting the input gain in performances (via rig manager) to what I would approximate I'd have an amp input set for my bass (maybe 4 or 5 of 10); this is not necessary!  In rig manager when creating your performances you set the amplifier gain to zero and that is a universal clean setting (ideal for 'most' bass players), setting it any higher at all, even by 3 or 4, induces distortion gain levels.  

 

Let's see what problems I can create for myself next.  LOL

[JapanAxe]

On 10/11/2023 at 16:57, warwickhunt said:

First 'revelation' for me was knocking the cab sim off many of the sounds improved it massively!  With cab engaged many of the stock bass tones seemed compressed to heck or they sounded like I was listening to them through a wooly blanket.

…. 

I have no skin in the game as far as digital modellers are concerned but I have found the same with the cab sim in my Origin Effects BassRig. Instead of the speaker-simulated balanced out I now use the amp out into a DI box and tweak the Amp Out EQ to taste.

[warwickhunt]

1 minute ago, JapanAxe said:

I have no skin in the game as far as digital modellers are concerned but I have found the same with the cab sim in my Origin Effects BassRig. Instead of the speaker-simulated balanced out I now use the amp out into a DI box and tweak the Amp Out EQ to taste.

 

I tried the NuX MLD as a preamp as I thought the cab sims in that would help in getting me a good sound via IEM or a monitor cab... nope, not to my ears and I had no qualms about selling it.  The preamp wasn't that bad but I couldn't get it to do what I wanted.   

[LukeFRC]

On 10/11/2023 at 16:57, warwickhunt said:

First 'revelation' for me was knocking the cab sim off many of the sounds improved it massively! 

when I had a HX stomp I went from cab sims to IRs, and then to just a HPF/LPF block... 
Chopping the top and bottom of the signal off meant it sat nicely in the mix, more like a bass should do and was easier for the PA to mix. 

 

[warwickhunt]

Progress is being made, I've even loaded a profile/capture onto the Kemper site!  Never too old to... now where's my glasses gone?

[acidbass]

On 12/11/2023 at 20:21, LukeFRC said:

when I had a HX stomp I went from cab sims to IRs, and then to just a HPF/LPF block... 
Chopping the top and bottom of the signal off meant it sat nicely in the mix, more like a bass should do and was easier for the PA to mix. 

 

 

I do exactly the same.  Everything below 40hz and above 7khz is completely cut from my signal.  Sounds so much better and cleans up blocks such as octave down really nicely.

[warwickhunt]

7 minutes ago, acidbass said:

 

I do exactly the same.  Everything below 40hz and above 7khz is completely cut from my signal.  Sounds so much better and cleans up blocks such as octave down really nicely.

 

I've never worried about the top end but take out everything below about 45hz.  I'm even going in and amending the profiles in the Kemper to filter below 45.