carlsim Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 13 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said: Looking at the specs the QSC K12.2 is not significantly lighter (only 7kg lighter), and got a low frequency response of 50Hz (-10B), vs the 45Hz (-3dB) (and I can attest that the low frequency response is impressive, but punchy and tight) of the 400% cheaper cabinet that I suggested (the active version that I mentioned that is, to compare apples to apples). It does play louder though (1000W RMS/2000W peak vs. 300W RMS/1200W peak). Also digital preamp vs. all analog. But well, it's your money. I am quite tempted by a https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_box_pro_dsx_112.htm - or possibly the 15" variant... for £266, you couldn't really complain! It isn't going to be an RCF or a QSC but the price is... well, a LOT cheaper. I did wonder about buying 2 - use one for small gigs - i do a fair bit of double bass jazz gigs and just need a tiny bit of reinforcement, and then for function gigs you could link 2 together to share the load... Something to consider... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 I'd be interested to know how the Box Pro performs; most of my tone comes from my Helix these days, and I'm looking for a single FRFR for gigs, but there's nothing I can find out there for anyone using one for bass... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloney Balderdash Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, carlsim said: I am quite tempted by a https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_box_pro_dsx_112.htm - or possibly the 15" variant... for £266, you couldn't really complain! It isn't going to be an RCF or a QSC but the price is... well, a LOT cheaper. I did wonder about buying 2 - use one for small gigs - i do a fair bit of double bass jazz gigs and just need a tiny bit of reinforcement, and then for function gigs you could link 2 together to share the load... Something to consider... Can't speak for that though, haven't tried it. But other than in terms of weight and output power, judging from the specs at least the The Box PA 502A that I suggested, and that I actually got first hand experience with, seems superior (even if it is the same brand, and even if it says "Pro" (even if it's actually about 50£ cheaper than my suggestion)). The The Box "Pro" line of PA speakers oddly enough seems to be inferior to their series of PA speakers that the PA speaker I suggested belong to (PA 108A, PA 110A, PA 302A and PA 502A) judging from specs, in all aspects except for being slightly lighter and a good deal louder, and maybe looking better as well. Worth noticing is also that the "Pro" series got digital preamp and Class D poweramp sections, whereas the The Box PA 502A got an all analog preamp and a SS poweramp section, and better low frequency response as well. At least I can only vouch for the The Box PA 502 and 502A that I actually tried and use, and non of their other offerings. As said though that one is no less than amazing, and not just for the money, so guess it kind of would be strange if their other products are pure crap. Perhaps have a look at the The Box PA 302A, which is the 12" woofer version of the one I suggested. Edited March 14, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Edwards69 Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Baloney Balderdash said: Looking at the specs the QSC K12.2 is not significantly lighter (only 7kg lighter) ... (the active version that I mentioned that is, The Box PA 502A, to compare apples to apples). I'm not sure I agree there. At 30.05 kg, that's the difference between a one hand carry and a two hand carry for me. I can manage a single trip (over relatively short distances) with my 16.3 kg Headrush FRFR 112 in one hand, helix in the other and bass on my back. That 30kg is more than some of us would want to lug around, regardless of the the number of hands or number of trips. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Edwards69 Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jack said: I've been tempted by Thomann's own stuff once or twice ... (including a speaker cabinet, the excellent Six Mix) That looks like an incredibly useful tool! Do you have one - if so, what's the low end extension like at low volumes? I've been thinking about replacing my Blackstar Core ID Beam practice amp as it doesn't have any real low end when I use it with my helix at home. I have both sized headrush speakers, but even the 8" one is overkill in my flat. This could be great paired with something like my Nux Mighty Plug Pro, or the Mooer Prime P1 I'm considering getting. Also considering a couple of PJB options, but only the nanobass has bluetooth and is twice the price of the Thomann offering. Edited March 14, 2023 by Greg Edwards69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsim Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 6 minutes ago, Greg Edwards69 said: I'm not sure I agree there. At 30.05 kg, that's the difference between a one hand carry and a two hand carry for me. I can manage a single trip (over relatively short distances) with my 16.3 kg Headrush FRFR 112 in one hand, helix in the other and bass on my back. That 30kg is more than some of us would want to lug around, regardless of the the number of hands or number of trips. How do you find the Headrush? I have been looking at them but i find very much mixed reviews... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Edwards69 Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 1 hour ago, carlsim said: How do you find the Headrush? I have been looking at them but i find very much mixed reviews... For me, it’s fine. It’s not spectacular, but does the job well enough for an inexpensive solution. I’ve never owned big amps/cabs, only combos or single speaker mini stacks (my last set up was markbass 1x12 traveller and Carvin BX700). With the helix and its global eq set up “just right” it feels remarkably similar to a traditional high powered bass combo. Many users think that the headrush speakers are a little too boomy, but with the global eq in the Helix I can easily dial this out. In fact, I can control the low end far better and easier than I ever could with my previous amps and pedals. I would like a little more tone control on the speaker itself. The only control is the contour button that simulates the fletcher munson effect at low volumes. Useful, but I’d like more eq options - particularly an hpf (my drummer put his roland trigger device through my smaller headrush 108 - it now needs a new speaker. An hpf would have prevented this. Ideally though I’d like to replace both my headrush speaker with a superior option that’s smaller and/or lighter (getting older and want to lighten the load!) but I’m torn as well. Both the guitarists in my band use a Yamaha DXR10 each and we have DXR12 speakers as our PA (no sub). The DXR10 are surprisingly capable for bass too. QSC themselves recommend the K10.2 for bassists with PA support – but their scenarios all include a subwoofer in the PA. We don’t have one yet, and I feel my larger headrush helps fill out the low end lost by putting the DXR12 speakers up on poles. I’m sure at the volumes we play the smaller K10.2 would be fine. FWIW, Bob Lee from QSC replied to me last year regarding this query, so it make me more confident the K10.2 would work fine for my needs. https://www.talkbass.com/threads/qsc-k12-2.1287735/page-10#post-26322872 Otherwise, I’ve been looking at the GRBass AT combos. You can bypass the eq and they are very close to FRFR, and much lighter than any of the other options. Plus they can work as a regular amp if my Helix ever fails. They are also allegedly releasing a range of bass dedicated FRFR speaker too at some point. However, financial wossnames have made all of this moot for the time being. Paying for food and energy is taking a priority! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 4 hours ago, Greg Edwards69 said: That looks like an incredibly useful tool! Do you have one? Yes! 4 hours ago, Greg Edwards69 said: if so, what's the low end extension like at low volumes? Appalling! In all seriousness it's a great bit of kit but there's a lot of farting on the low E string. A bass amp it is not. Feed it compressed music from a phone or something and it's surprisingly loud and it sounds great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gafbass02 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 (edited) Another Headrush user here. I bought two to use as pa/acoustic rig/bass rig/guitar amp, and they’re great. I rarely use them these days as I prefer IEMs, but I certainly don’t need to lug two about as I did on the day pictured, one is plenty for monitoring on stage. If I were to use them as room filling backline I’d take both just in case. They sound great and I like sounding onstage more like the out front sound, as opposed to sounding like a bass rig that only I hear. It helps me judge things like pickup and eq changes more accurately. Edited March 19, 2023 by gafbass02 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Did a rare vocal only PA gig at the weekend. smallish venue probably about 75 capacity in a long narrow room. The RCF745 was more then adequate. I had both the Helix and the RCF volume controls at just under half way, which was plenty. The last time I had to use my bass rig for FoH bass with this band was when I had my more conventional amp and cabs set up and I ended up having to be so loud on stage I could barely hear the rest of the band. The RCF seemed to be more controlled and with better projection and although I was slightly louder than I would have been out of choice, I could still hear all the other instruments comfortably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Edwards69 Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 2 hours ago, BigRedX said: Did a rare vocal only PA gig at the weekend. smallish venue probably about 75 capacity in a long narrow room. The RCF745 was more then adequate. I had both the Helix and the RCF volume controls at just under half way, which was plenty. The last time I had to use my bass rig for FoH bass with this band was when I had my more conventional amp and cabs set up and I ended up having to be so loud on stage I could barely hear the rest of the band. The RCF seemed to be more controlled and with better projection and although I was slightly louder than I would have been out of choice, I could still hear all the other instruments comfortably. I've had a similar experience. I wonder if it's a combination of being able to use the frfr speaker as a wedge (although I used to angle my previous bass cab back a little with little folding markbass amp stand) as well as having much better control over the low end with the Helix global eq - meaning I can turn up loud without flooding the stage in a mess of low end boom and mud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 5 hours ago, Greg Edwards69 said: I've had a similar experience. I wonder if it's a combination of being able to use the frfr speaker as a wedge (although I used to angle my previous bass cab back a little with little folding markbass amp stand) as well as having much better control over the low end with the Helix global eq - meaning I can turn up loud without flooding the stage in a mess of low end boom and mud. Maybe. Although I did have a Thumpinator in my previous rig. To me it seems as though the dispersion from the FRFR is much better which I think might be the most help in being able to have a sensible on-stage volume while still being loud and punchy enough for the audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsim Posted April 14, 2023 Author Share Posted April 14, 2023 So… finally got my rig of choice! plumped for a boss GT1B but honestly, I found that the synth bass sounds didn’t track very well at all. So that has now moved on to greener pastures and I picked up an as new line 6 pod go from the bay… I haven’t tried it yet and I was looking for a hx stomp but this, I’m sure will meet my needs. also… bought a QSC 10.2 which turned out to have a fault (this was a shame as it sounded amazing - kudos to @lemmywinks for a quick and easy solution. Saw a Headrush for sale locally, picked that up thinking - that will do… then 2 days later saw a QSC 12.2 for sale locally to me which I am now organising collection. so… that’s me sorted. Line 6 pod go into a QSC 12.2. Should be banging! first outing won’t be for a while but I shall feedback on here with the outcome for anyone else considering it… 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 1 hour ago, carlsim said: So… finally got my rig of choice! plumped for a boss GT1B but honestly, I found that the synth bass sounds didn’t track very well at all. So that has now moved on to greener pastures and I picked up an as new line 6 pod go from the bay… I haven’t tried it yet and I was looking for a hx stomp but this, I’m sure will meet my needs. also… bought a QSC 10.2 which turned out to have a fault (this was a shame as it sounded amazing - kudos to @lemmywinks for a quick and easy solution. Saw a Headrush for sale locally, picked that up thinking - that will do… then 2 days later saw a QSC 12.2 for sale locally to me which I am now organising collection. so… that’s me sorted. Line 6 pod go into a QSC 12.2. Should be banging! first outing won’t be for a while but I shall feedback on here with the outcome for anyone else considering it… I've been using a Stomp into a 12.2 for a few years, I'm sure you'll be really happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsim Posted April 14, 2023 Author Share Posted April 14, 2023 I would have liked the stomp, but it’s one of those things where none were for sale, this pod go popped up and then Sod’s Law, a stomp pops up for sale… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloney Balderdash Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 (edited) 57 minutes ago, carlsim said: So… finally got my rig of choice! plumped for a boss GT1B but honestly, I found that the synth bass sounds didn’t track very well at all. So that has now moved on to greener pastures and I picked up an as new line 6 pod go from the bay… I haven’t tried it yet and I was looking for a hx stomp but this, I’m sure will meet my needs. also… bought a QSC 10.2 which turned out to have a fault (this was a shame as it sounded amazing - kudos to @lemmywinks for a quick and easy solution. Saw a Headrush for sale locally, picked that up thinking - that will do… then 2 days later saw a QSC 12.2 for sale locally to me which I am now organising collection. so… that’s me sorted. Line 6 pod go into a QSC 12.2. Should be banging! first outing won’t be for a while but I shall feedback on here with the outcome for anyone else considering it… 57 minutes ago, carlsim said: I would have liked the stomp, but it’s one of those things where none were for sale, this pod go popped up and then Sod’s Law, a stomp pops up for sale… I see a pattern here... But no need or use pointing it out, as I assume you are perfectly aware of it yourself. Edited April 14, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsim Posted April 14, 2023 Author Share Posted April 14, 2023 Perfectly aware and perfectly happy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsim Posted April 14, 2023 Author Share Posted April 14, 2023 I suppose that’s the beauty of the used marketplace… with some luck you can buy and sell without losing too much (if any) money! Unlike buying new… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 3 hours ago, carlsim said: ...then 2 days later saw a QSC 12.2 for sale locally to me which I am now organising collection. Excellen. I use the QSC K12.2 and my duo partner uses the K10.2, best choices we ever made! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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