Fender Bassman 50 rebuild/restoration

[ossyrocks]

Hi all,

 

I thought I might start a thread about this amp which I picked up a couple of weeks ago. I've asked on here before about these amps, and some people like them and some think they are unusable. But, I don't (or haven't yet) played anywhere which requires a very loud amp, and I'm a sucker for valve amps, so I started looking for one. It's amazing how many you see when you aren't actually looking, so once I started actually looking, I couldn't find one anywhere! Then a couple of friends came over for lunch and I mentioned I was looking for an amp like his Bassman 50, and he said he was considering selling it, as he's gone digital, silent stage, in-ears etc for weddings and function gigs. Three weeks later I went over and bought it. Whilst the amp appears mostly original - transformers, cabinet etc, it has been extensively "worked on" inside (see pics below), so I thought the best thing to do was take it to the renowned Martin Garton (Gartone Amps) for a look over and to do whatever is necessary.

 

Martin had it on the bench last week for assessment and thought it best to ring me to discuss it. Basically, it's a mess inside, multiple mods and blunders. We agreed the best course of action was a complete rebuild. It's going to get mainly put back to stock, except the power supply and bias which will be improved, then tweaked from there to optimise it for bass. Everything will be about maximising clarity, volume and tone. I've supplied some NOS JAN Philips 7581A's for the outputs and a box of NOS & used but good preamp valves including 6 Telefunkens, some Bugle Boys, Sylvanias, RCA's etc which Martin will choose for best performance and tone.

 

This is not going to be an amp that I will ever recoup my money on, for a start I probably (definitely) paid over the odds for it, and I'm yet to find out what the rebuild will cost (although I know it will not be cheap). But in a way, getting one that needed rebuilding is a bonus, as it will allow Martin to do everything in his power to make the amp into the best it can be, and we won't be modifying a pristine original example.

 

I intend to use it through one or two Mark Bass Traveler 102P's, with my vintage P bass, but that's some way off yet.

 

I'll try to keep the thread updated as things move along. Anyway, here's some pics as it was when I bought it.

 

Cheers,

Rob

 

 

 

 

[BassmanPaul]

My least favourite amp of all time. I've owned two. Good luck with the restoration and I really hope you're not disappointed at the end.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

I liked my '65 Bassman amp well enough, but the speaker was gosh awful. I'll forever be thankful to Leo Fender for that, as it's what prompted me to study loudspeaker design, which eventually became my profession. 😉

If I was going to do a total rebuild of a Bassman I'd ditch the Fender tone stack, which was fine for guitar but not for bass, in favor of the Ampeg B-15 design.

[BassmanPaul]

I'll agree with you Bill. An Ampeg B15 is magical1 I always get a happy smile when I play through mine.  

 

Speaker wise I tried a JBL 2225 in mine that I happened to have. It was nice but the original square back driver the amp came with had something more. It's what's in there now.

Edited February 11 by BassmanPaul

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

The 2225 was more of a PA woofer, with weak highs. The king of bass drivers back in the day was the Altec 418. Even today it would be competitive.

[Minininjarob]

Tell you what, I’m not that much into the older amp looks but that is gorgeous. 
 

Hope the project works out well. 

[BassmanPaul]

For myself I loved how the Blackface amps in Blonde Tolex looked. I set up my first atop it's matching 2x12 cabinet leaned back on it's legs. It made me feel that I had 'arrived'! Then I switched the thing on and started to play. All I got was a mass of distortion. I was sooo disappointed! It went back to the shop. They had sold my trade in but I left the Bassman anyway.

[msb]

I suspect that after being restored , and tweaked for bass , it would be a lovely home rig with a small modern cab.

[ossyrocks]

8 hours ago, msb said:

I suspect that after being restored , and tweaked for bass , it would be a lovely home rig with a small modern cab.

That’s the plan. If it could stretch to quieter gigs that would be a bonus. Martin seems confident he can do it.

[BigRedX]

Good luck with the restoration.

 

But consider that having it tweaked for bass might affect its resale value (if that's important to you) as IME the majority of users these days are guitarists.

[Shaggy]

Yup, good luck with this, and that amp is going to be so much more special to you when done than something you bought ready to plug and play.   IMHO those old silverface Bassman amps are the best looking amps ever made. 

 

Around 20 years ago I was lucky enough to find a Bassman 135 silverface head in a local junk shop.   Got it for £50 as it was dead as a doornail, but - as I’d hoped - a new set of power valves brought it back to life.   That amp with an old H/H 2x15 cab was my gigging rig for many years - long gone now, but missed.

 

Update the thread after the restoration! 👍

 

[ossyrocks]

2 hours ago, BigRedX said:

Good luck with the restoration.

 

But consider that having it tweaked for bass might affect its resale value (if that's important to you) as IME the majority of users these days are guitarists.

Yes, a lot of guitarists like these, and I bought it from one. But it was so far away from original inside already that it made my decision much easier. If it had been pristine original inside then I may not have proceeded with this plan.

 

Rob

[ossyrocks]

1 hour ago, Shaggy said:

Yup, good luck with this, and that amp is going to be so much more special to you when done than something you bought ready to plug and play.   IMHO those old silverface Bassman amps are the best looking amps ever made. 

 

Around 20 years ago I was lucky enough to find a Bassman 135 silverface head in a local junk shop.   Got it for £50 as it was dead as a doornail, but - as I’d hoped - a new set of power valves brought it back to life.   That amp with an old H/H 2x15 cab was my gigging rig for many years - long gone now, but missed.

 

Update the thread after the restoration! 👍

 

Thanks. I love the look of old Fenders too, and I’ve had many (for guitar) over the years. I’ll post some more about it when Martin has done his work.

 

Rob

[Alien]

On 08/11/2022 at 17:10, BassmanPaul said:

My least favourite amp of all time. I've owned two. 

If it's not a daft question; if you don't like them, why did you buy the second one?  The first could be put down to bad luck, but the second seems to be the triumph of hope over experience!

 

A

[msb]

I sold a blackface Bassman to a guitar playing friend about 40 years ago, he was back for a visit last week and telling me it still sounds gorgeous.

[Alien]

On 08/11/2022 at 17:34, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

I'll forever be thankful to Leo Fender for that, as it's what prompted me to study loudspeaker design, which eventually became my profession.

Every cloud, as they say 😀

 

A

[Chienmortbb]

58 minutes ago, Alien said:

Every cloud, as they say 😀

 

A

Has a Silver faced lining?

 

[Passinwind]

On 08/11/2022 at 10:04, BassmanPaul said:

I'll agree with you Bill. An Ampeg b15 is magical1 I always get a happy smile when I play through mine.  

 

Speaker wise I tried a JBL 2225 in mine that I happened to have. It was nice but the original square back driver the amp came with had something more. It's what's in there now.

My tastes are notoriously out there, but the B-15 is easily my least favorite bass amp ever, go figure. When I sold mine I ported to unamplified upright bass for as time because I thought all bass amps were that lame.  I'd take a Bassman 50 any day over that, at least it would be nice for guitar. But with the right mods and a modern speaker it could be a lot nicer for low volume bass for sure.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Passinwind

[BassmanPaul]

Hey Charlie, always nice to hear from you.   I guess we all have our own preferences in amplification. The huge disappointment  I felt the first night I used the Bassman affected me for life. I couldn't get the amp back to the store fast enough. 

 

I replaced it with a Marshall 4x12 driven by a Leak TL50+ power amp and I built a single tube preamp that derived its power from the pre-amp socket on the Leak. it was far far better.

Edited November 18, 2022 by BassmanPaul

[Passinwind]

1 minute ago, BassmanPaul said:

Hey Charlie, always nice to hear from you.   I guess we all have our own preferences in amplification. The huge disappointment  I felt the first night I used the Bassman affected me for life. I couldn't get the amp back to the store fast enough. 

 

I replaced it with a Marshall 4x12 driven by a Leak TL50+ power amp and I built a single tube preamp that derived its power from the pre-amp socket on the leak. it was far far better.

I remember that story Paul. The old Fender cabs get no love from me, certrianly. And I've always loved tubes for guitar but rarely all that much for bass. That's just for my own playing though, not for others. I've heard all kinds of gear I don't like playing through work great for others, wouldn't have it any other way really. 😉

[Reggaebass]

Roberto Sanchez put this up recently, it’s not the 50 ,it’s the bassman 100 through an Ampeg 4x10 , sounds good 

 

[ossyrocks]

@Reggaebassthanks for that. I like that tone, hopefully mine will give me something like it, but I know I won’t have the headroom of a 100. 
 

I’ll be using mine with a pair of Mark Bass 2x10’s. What I’m planning to do is an A/B or side by side test with my Mark Bass Little Mark III. The LM3 is really quite loud and it will allow me to see just where it’s at, and if it “could” be useable at a gig. 
 

I just need Martin to finish it! 
 

Rob

[Reggaebass]

Looks like a great project ossy, they look really cool 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

1 hour ago, ossyrocks said:

@Reggaebassthanks for that. I like that tone, hopefully mine will give me something like it, but I know I won’t have the headroom of a 100.

You probably wouldn't be able to tell them apart. Back in the day we all found it odd that you couldn't hear any major difference between a Bandmaster, Bassman, Twin Reverb or Dual Showman when played through the same speakers. That was long before we knew about decibels and logarithmic hearing response. 

[ossyrocks]

11 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

You probably wouldn't be able to tell them apart. Back in the day we all found it odd that you couldn't hear any major difference between a Bandmaster, Bassman, Twin Reverb or Dual Showman when played through the same speakers. That was long before we knew about decibels and logarithmic hearing response. 

That’s fairly true to an extent, they do all share the same basic circuits. What often differs are HT voltages, the size of the output transformer, and the speaker configurations. I also have a 1966 blackface Bandmaster head, which I currently have for sale. It’s a lovely thing for guitar, but it has a small output transformer and really doesn’t work that well for bass.