Not-American Classics?

[thisnameistaken]

So all the "classic" basses seem to be American; your Fenders, Rickenbackers, Gibsons to an extent. What non-American basses have the same Rock n' Roll cachet?

Yes there's the Hofner Violin Bass, but what else? I'm looking more for older designs, not stuff like the Status body shape or the Thumb which I think can be considered modern classics. I want stuff more timeless than that.

Some of the Shergolds I've seen in the For Sale section seem to fit the bill, so if anyone's got photos of those please share them, but what else is out there and actually cuts it as a gigging bass?

[josh3184]

bassassin in 3..2..1..

[Buzz]

Sod that, we did Amplification instead.

Although, the DanElectro basses are suitably iconic, such as the Longhorn, even if it's not a bonafide classic.

[thisnameistaken]

I had to admit I thought Danelectros were American... They're a bit ***-looking though aren't they? With those pickups and the pastel colours.

Hmm. I just looked up Danelectro and they're from Redbank, New Jersey! I've played there and it's definitely not outside of the USA.

[doctor_of_the_bass]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='436811' date='Mar 17 2009, 12:31 AM']So all the "classic" basses seem to be American; your Fenders, Rickenbackers, Gibsons to an extent. What non-American basses have the same Rock n' Roll cachet?

Yes there's the Hofner Violin Bass, but what else? I'm looking more for older designs, not stuff like the Status body shape or the Thumb which I think can be considered modern classics. I want stuff more timeless than that.

Some of the Shergolds I've seen in the For Sale section seem to fit the bill, so if anyone's got photos of those please share them, but what else is out there and actually cuts it as a gigging bass?[/quote]

I actually disagree with the Status comment as the early models can technically now be classed as vintage instruments! And they are timeless - my old Series 2000 #27 looks just as good today as it did back when I was a gangly yoof! Anyway, I'm an old git!

Other classic non-US fully giggable basses could (IMHO) be;

Vigier (oooh lalala!)
John Birch
Gordon-Smith
Chris Eccleshall
Jaydee (Classic, MK model, Roadie range, GA24 model, Session model, Video etc)
Aria SB range
Yamaha BB range (original models from late 70's etc)
Ashley Pangborn (Warlord range, Warrior and Chieftain models)
Manson
Wal
Overwater
Hagstrom
Egmond
Ned Callan
Washburn
Tune (see Washburn)
Ibanez (Musician, Studio, Artist etc)
Vantage
Riverhead
Westone
El Maya
Fernandes

etc etc etc

[thisnameistaken]

Hmm. OK let's try to distill that a bit:

Vigier - I've never seen an old Vigier, anybody got a snap of one? That's a new bass to me.
John Birch - Would like to see one. Looks like he just makes copies of American basses.
Gordon-Smith - I think their Les Paul models are modern classics and I love them, but I've never seen a GS bass - again, pics?
Chris Eccleshall - Another American copier?
Jaydee - Too modern.
Aria SB range - Bit plain, but the best suggestion yet.
Yamaha BB range - Agreed! [b]Not-American Classic[/b]
Ashley Pangborn - Look just like Jaydees or Alembics, no, not good enough.
Manson - Does he even make basses? Another boutique nobody - NO!
Wal - Agreed! [b]Not-American Classic[/b] if you can find an older one or the original body shape. MkII and later basses don't count!
Overwater - Too modern, too exclusive.
Hagstrom - Inspired by American designs but still with original features and still cool. I say [b]Not-American Classic[/b]. I've never played one though and they don't look too clever in the "giggable" category to me, but maybe that's just me.
Egmond - Best example I could find looked like a really cheap Fender knock-off. Pics?
Ned Callan - Would like to see some examples. All I'm finding is Shergold links.
Washburn - Can't think of a "classic" Washburn, I remember them for (admittedly good) budget guitars in the late '80s. Were they around before then?
Tune - Too modern.
Ibanez - Again, great suggestion, I declare the Musician a [b]Not-American Classic[/b], always tempted by them when they come up for sale.
Vantage - Would need to see classic examples, I thought they were a relatively modern brand.
Riverhead - Can only find '80s models. Did they do anything else?
Westone - I remember lots of people learning on Thunder models. OK then - [b]Not-American Classic[/b] - but ugly!
El Maya - Didn't they just do Fender copies?
Fernandes - Didn't they just do Fender copies?

Edited March 17, 2009 by thisnameistaken

[Buzz]

Non American, German infact:

Hofner (yes, I'm too lazy to add the umlaut). Specifically the Violin basses that Sir Paul loves.


As for Danelectro, I may have implied they weren't American, but I never said so (even tho they were probably more popular over here)

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='Buzz' post='436830' date='Mar 17 2009, 01:53 AM']Hofner (yes, I'm too lazy to add the umlaut). Specifically the Violin basses that Sir Paul loves.[/quote]

I did mention that in the first post.

[quote name='Buzz' post='436830' date='Mar 17 2009, 01:53 AM']As for Danelectro, I may have implied they weren't American, but I never said so (even tho they were probably more popular over here) [/quote]

I'm going to take that as an admission of error.

Shots of nice Shergolds will absolve you.

[Buzz]

Criminy, that's a double fault by me this evening. Well played sir, well played. Same again next Tuesday? xx

[thisnameistaken]

Thanks for reminding me I really shouldn't drink so much on Tuesdays.

[ARGH]

One word lads..and its a love or hate em affair.....

BURNS

[Soulfinger]

Ahem...



Rock´n´Roll enough for Bill Black, Marshall Lytle and lots of others...

[Kiwi]

Classic status is usually spurred on by nostalgia. This is what drove the preCBS Fender interest originally in the 80's. So if you take the same basis and apply it to british basses (for example) our time of greatest nostalgia was the 80's and mostly around Mark King although there were others too. Only if we were as excitable as the US we'd be telling each other that Jaydee basses were the 4 string equivalent of the second coming of the great prophet Zarquon... ...or something similar anyway.

My 2p:
Jaydees (anything other than a Roadie made before the Running In The Family album in 1985/86)
Pangborns (mainly because there's an air of mystery surrounding where Ashley is now)
Wals (obviously because now the Americans have gotten excited about them the prices are through the roof)
Status (although probably the Strata models more than anything but watch out for those warping necks!)

I don't think there's much else to add really. Those 4 brands were the brands to have back then. Burns were distinctive but mostly associated with the 60's and the Shadows, Overwater wasn't known, John Birch didn't really make anything iconic, the early Warwicks were cool but not English. Warwick have flooded the market anyway and kind of undermined their potential status as classics. There's not a lot that sets a JD Thumb bass apart from a late 80's Warwick Thumb as being special.

Also worth considering:
Ibanez Musicians (mostly through the New Romantics era)
Arias SB basses (mostly because of Duran Duran)
Yamaha BB5000/BB3000 series. At one point in the 80's every bassist who wanted a 5 string went for a BB5000 so I'd say they've got a certain nostalgia to them.

BTW:

[BigBeefChief]

Burns Bison. I love that bass. Will buy one this year.

[Musky]

Framus Star or the Vox Phantom?

[simon1964]

[quote name='doctor_of_the_bass' post='436820' date='Mar 17 2009, 12:58 AM']I actually disagree with the Status comment as the early models can technically now be classed as vintage instruments! And they are timeless - my old Series 2000 #27 looks just as good today as it did back when I was a gangly yoof! Anyway, I'm an old git!

Other classic non-US fully giggable basses could (IMHO) be;


Washburn


etc etc etc[/quote]

Washburn are an Amercian company. They've actually been around longer than Fender etc, orignally making acoustics, albeit that the bulk of their production is outside the US now (which is probably true for Fender too!).

Burns has to be the British classic

[OutToPlayJazz]

I'm also for the Burns Bison - I'd like one of the current ones in white with gold hardware. Much miore interesting than another Precision *yawn*

[BigRedX]

I think with almost 50 years of familiarity and the sheer numbers of instruments out there the big American brands have tied up most of the mainstream 'classic' basses. What the great European and Japanese basses bring is the unconventional that appeals those those of us who find the American classics simply uninspiring.

So, what to pick?

From Japan the Ibanez and Aria Pro II original designs from the late 70s and early 80s, especially the Aria SBs and the Ibanez Artist basses.
The Yamaha SBV basses may have not made much of an impact here or in the US, but they're very popular in Japan and have several high-profile users.

From the UK, the Overwater Originals from the early 80s, and as CK said the early JD basses, Wals and Status again from the late 70s and early 80s. All these designs are now at least 25 years old so if the OP thinks that they're too modern that just shows how far ahead of the game they were when they first came out!

Unfortunately while there were many great guitar builders in the UK before 1980 few of them built any great basses. John Birch in particular made some stunning guitars but the majority of his basses are revised versions of US designs - an improvement but not an innovation and that's what is needed to become a classic.

For me what is interesting is not what is already considered classic but what will achieve that status in the next 20-30 years. I think the they will be like the Wal basses - a recognisable shape and a couple of high-profile users with individual sounds.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='436964' date='Mar 17 2009, 10:17 AM']For me what is interesting is not what is already considered classic but what will achieve that status in the next 20-30 years. I think the they will be like the Wal basses - a recognisable shape and a couple of high-profile users with individual sounds.[/quote]
OK, so taking nostalgia as a starting point and projecting 20 years into the future where the teenagers who are currently making do with schecters, warwick rock basses and yamahas can actually afford something a little more high end, what noughties basses are they going to look back on and wish they'd really owned?

Warwick Katana?
Status Graphite S2?
Spector NS-5XL?

In the current music scene I can't see a lot of movement away from the vintage Fender market myself. I'm not aware of anything contemporary and distinctive which is drawing most teenage bass players away from that. Warwick was about as close as it got, in my view. But I'm sure there are some teen bassists on the forum who could describe what they think they'd like to own 20 years from now?

[doctor_of_the_bass]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='436826' date='Mar 17 2009, 01:20 AM']Hmm. OK let's try to distill that a bit:

Vigier - I've never seen an old Vigier, anybody got a snap of one? That's a new bass to me.
John Birch - Would like to see one. Looks like he just makes copies of American basses.
Gordon-Smith - I think their Les Paul models are modern classics and I love them, but I've never seen a GS bass - again, pics?
Chris Eccleshall - Another American copier?
Jaydee - Too modern.
Aria SB range - Bit plain, but the best suggestion yet.
Yamaha BB range - Agreed! [b]Not-American Classic[/b]
Ashley Pangborn - Look just like Jaydees or Alembics, no, not good enough.
Manson - Does he even make basses? Another boutique nobody - NO!
Wal - Agreed! [b]Not-American Classic[/b] if you can find an older one or the original body shape. MkII and later basses don't count!
Overwater - Too modern, too exclusive.
Hagstrom - Inspired by American designs but still with original features and still cool. I say [b]Not-American Classic[/b]. I've never played one though and they don't look too clever in the "giggable" category to me, but maybe that's just me.
Egmond - Best example I could find looked like a really cheap Fender knock-off. Pics?
Ned Callan - Would like to see some examples. All I'm finding is Shergold links.
Washburn - Can't think of a "classic" Washburn, I remember them for (admittedly good) budget guitars in the late '80s. Were they around before then?
Tune - Too modern.
Ibanez - Again, great suggestion, I declare the Musician a [b]Not-American Classic[/b], always tempted by them when they come up for sale.
Vantage - Would need to see classic examples, I thought they were a relatively modern brand.
Riverhead - Can only find '80s models. Did they do anything else?
Westone - I remember lots of people learning on Thunder models. OK then - [b]Not-American Classic[/b] - but ugly!
El Maya - Didn't they just do Fender copies?
Fernandes - Didn't they just do Fender copies?[/quote]


Oh dear! Looks like I've been shot down in flames!!

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='436964' date='Mar 17 2009, 10:17 AM']From the UK, the Overwater Originals from the early 80s, and as CK said the early JD basses, Wals and Status again from the late 70s and early 80s. All these designs are now at least 25 years old so if the OP thinks that they're too modern that just shows how far ahead of the game they were when they first came out![/quote]

But they were never cool. The only British manufacturer who had a distinctive shape was Status, and that literally was "too modern". It looks very dated now, not in a good way.

I agree that Burns probably qualify, even though their designs are based on American shapes but "wrong". What about Vox - did they make basses?

[Musky]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='437426' date='Mar 17 2009, 03:47 PM']But they were never cool. The only British manufacturer who had a distinctive shape was Status, and that literally was "too modern". It looks very dated now, not in a good way.

I agree that Burns probably qualify, even though their designs are based on American shapes but "wrong". [b]What about Vox - did they make basses?[/b][/quote]

Yeah, Vox made loads of basses but are probably best know for the Phantom and the Mark IV (or teardrop as it's better known). Certainly classic shapes because they are so distinctive and recognisable, but I doubt they really hit the spot in terms of quality.

I borrowed a phantom for about six months (I'm in a garage band) and wasn't overly impressed. The front pickup had been replaced with a mudbucker and sounded sweet, but the original at the bridge sounded pretty thin. Neck profile was pretty similar to a seventies Precision, but it was in severe need of shimming - which the guy I'd borrowed it off didn't want.

And [i]serious[/i] neck dive.

[Jarhead]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='437109' date='Mar 17 2009, 12:21 PM']OK, so taking nostalgia as a starting point and projecting 20 years into the future where the teenagers who are currently making do with schecters, warwick rock basses and yamahas can actually afford something a little more high end, what noughties basses are they going to look back on and wish they'd really owned?

Warwick Katana?
Status Graphite S2?
Spector NS-5XL?

In the current music scene I can't see a lot of movement away from the vintage Fender market myself. I'm not aware of anything contemporary and distinctive which is drawing most teenage bass players away from that. Warwick was about as close as it got, in my view. [b]But I'm sure there are some teen bassists on the forum who could describe what they think they'd like to own 20 years from now?[/b][/quote]
Oh go on then
Personally, I would probably be looking to own a Spector, or maybe a Jackson, something like the Chris Beattie signature, the bassist for Hatebreed. But you might want to check in with the other teenager around my age knocking about on the forum, M4L666 I think it is.

Zach

[Happy Jack]

Naaah! They'll all wish they'd had CIJ Telebasses in Butterscotch ...

[Bassassin]

[quote name='josh3184' post='436813' date='Mar 17 2009, 12:36 AM']bassassin in 3..2..1..[/quote]
Nah - JapCrap has given us no bona fide classics - with the possible exception of the Aria Pro SB series and Ibby Musicians, which have been mentioned, and these were very much of their era.

Probably a lot of this is to do with the fact that the Japanese guitar industry is built on copying - and even when forced to shift to original designs, they remained identifiably derivative for years. The true JapCrap originals, for example the Tokai Talbos & Atlansias, are far too wilfully obscure to ever attain "classic" status.

Ironically the closest things to real classics built in Japan are probably JV Squiers!

Jon.