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Close To The Edge - Full Bass Transcription

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Just now, visog said:

His picking is pretty refined. And he's a whizz at odd time signatures. And he's singing harmony. Oh and bass pedals. He's a walking church - organ, choir the lot! And whatever it is that makes my arm hairs stand-up and adrenaline pulse when I here one semi-tone of his playing.

Oh, as I say, he’s my favourite player. The picking, odd time sigs and harmonies aren’t a problem (never had the bass pedals), but coming up with the parts is another thing entirely. 

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Just now, 4000 said:

 coming up with the parts is another thing entirely. 

Yup. That's the motherlode. He was great - makes life worth living.

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It's all tone and arrangements. He had fairly limited chops by any standards. 

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1 hour ago, Bilbo said:

It's all tone and arrangements. He had fairly limited chops by any standards. 

Not sure he had limited chops by the standard of the day. 

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On 11/05/2020 at 14:41, toneknob said:

Where might one find this Transcription Archive page?

And can you do Gates Of Delirium next please?

 

 

 

Dammit, Gates was my witty retort. 

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5 hours ago, Bilbo said:

It's all tone and arrangements. He had fairly limited chops by any standards. 

Interesting comment. I think he had brilliant Chris Squire chops. 

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2 hours ago, spectoremg said:

Interesting comment. I think he had brilliant Chris Squire chops. 

I love his playing and I love his ideas. He is a perfect example of how great players/musicians/artists don't have to be chopsmeisters to make a massive contribution. 

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3 hours ago, spectoremg said:

Interesting comment. I think he had brilliant Chris Squire chops. 

Agree 100%. Thats the "Musician" problem right there. Believing chops are more important than the music. Chris had a unique musical fingerprint, how many so called chopmeisters would die to be original.

Edited by mikel
Additions.
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1 hour ago, Bilbo said:

I love his playing and I love his ideas. He is a perfect example of how great players/musicians/artists don't have to be chopsmeisters to make a massive contribution. 

This.
Well said!

 

1 hour ago, mikel said:

Agree 100%. Thats the "Musician" problem right there. Believing chops are more important than the music. Chris had a unique musical fingerprint, how many so called chopmeisters would die to be original.

I'd rather say that's the "non-musician" problem right there, though we probably fully agree in this. There exists a class of people generating sound who seem to not be about conveying musical ideas with musicality, and it's always been my feeling they're probably more about impressing other people... or trying to.

It's back to the old adage of "chops is just the tool that gives you freedom - nothing else".

As a point in case (not of the impressing bit but of the chops vs music bit), in college "everyone" in our keyboards department would play Keith Emerson or Jimmy Smith stuff technically a lot better than Emerson or Smith ever did. None of us were Emerson or Smith though.
Happily we were aware. 

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I think that six year old kid playing Chromatic Fantasy or the 11 year old Japanese kid playing YYZ on an organ show that chops is the easy bit. It's the ideas that matter. Craft vs. Art. 

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On 23/05/2020 at 22:30, Bilbo said:

It's all tone and arrangements. He had fairly limited chops by any standards. 

I suppose it depends what you mean by chops. I have difficulty with the idea that Chris Squire was deficient in terms of  technical  ability to express himself on the bass. 

He had  very distinct and individual style that he adapted to different musical contexts, so in that sense he was limited. But then again, you could say the same about Jaco Pastorius, Stanley Clarke,  or most other influential bass players  who have a discernible  personality on the instrument.  Musicians who can be all things to all men, so to speak, tend to end up being fairly anonymous. I see lots of tremendously capable bass players who are dull as dishwater.  I could name names, but I don't want  to offend anybody , including the individuals concerned. Chris Squire was a bass guitar icon , and he was never dull. He used too much treble for that. 😄

Edited by Misdee
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I measure chops based on the capacity of others to execute the parts. What Squire plays is, to my mind, reasonably easy to recreate whereas, say, Jaco, Jeff Berlin etc are tougher to cop by mere mortals. 

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Amazing work doing the transcription, by the way. I'm in awe.  I feel a bit ungrateful that I can hardly read music at all  , despite several attempts at trying to learn.🙁

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Just now, Bilbo said:

I measure chops based on the capacity of others to execute the parts. What Squire plays is, to my mind, reasonably easy to recreate whereas, say, Jaco, Jeff Berlin etc are tougher to cop by mere mortals. 

I take your point entirely, but I think that some of Chris Squire's parts are pretty difficult to recreate by  most standards. What he played on some bits of Relayer immediately  springs to mind.

Also , if you are primarily  a fingerstyle player like me  , his picking technique is pretty formidable and  was a major part of his style and sound . I agree that Chris had his limitations, but he was still a very  tricky customer. I think it would be pretty difficult to play his parts and make them sound like he did. And yes, I know there are some chaps on YT  that manage to imitate him pretty well but they are doing an obsessively detailed job. 

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30 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

I measure chops based on the capacity of others to execute the parts. What Squire plays is, to my mind, reasonably easy to recreate whereas, say, Jaco, Jeff Berlin etc are tougher to cop by mere mortals. 

I think the issue comes with the term “limited by any standard”.

As before, whereas there are tons of bassists these days who wouldn’t find his stuff that difficult in terms of playing the parts (you could say that about many “greats”)  I’m not sure you could say that in the early days of Yes. And to be fair, technique-wise Jaco and Jeff were at the absolute pinnacle for their era. 

For what it’s worth, the majority of bassists I come across, even now, aren’t any better than Chris from a technical standpoint, and many (most?) are way behind. Of course the ones that are better tend to be more jazz-inclined, and if that’s what you’re used to it will obviously seem different. 😉 
 

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I agree regarding Relayer (I wish there was an isolated bass version of that). 

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3 hours ago, Bilbo said:

I measure chops based on the capacity of others to execute the parts. What Squire plays is, to my mind, reasonably easy to recreate whereas, say, Jaco, Jeff Berlin etc are tougher to cop by mere mortals. 

Heard the recording of ABWH with Jeff Berlin who played all of the notes and barely any of the music. Tony Levin on the other hand donned his 'funk fingers' and went 'full Squire' and it was glorious.

Edited by visog
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On 24/05/2020 at 09:02, BassTractor said:

This.
Well said!

 

I'd rather say that's the "non-musician" problem right there, though we probably fully agree in this. There exists a class of people generating sound who seem to not be about conveying musical ideas with musicality, and it's always been my feeling they're probably more about impressing other people... or trying to.

It's back to the old adage of "chops is just the tool that gives you freedom - nothing else".

As a point in case (not of the impressing bit but of the chops vs music bit), in college "everyone" in our keyboards department would play Keith Emerson or Jimmy Smith stuff technically a lot better than Emerson or Smith ever did. None of us were Emerson or Smith though.
Happily we were aware. 

That's why I put "Musician" in italics.

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16 hours ago, Bilbo said:

I measure chops based on the capacity of others to execute the parts. What Squire plays is, to my mind, reasonably easy to recreate whereas, say, Jaco, Jeff Berlin etc are tougher to cop by mere mortals. 

So because something is difficult to copy it is by default better or more worthy?  That's the "Musician" thing again.

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1 hour ago, mikel said:

So because something is difficult to copy it is by default better or more worthy?  That's the "Musician" thing again.

I guess so. It's not a question of it being more worthy, more a case of recognising the kind of things that are worth investigating if you are looking to explore the potential of the instrument. Nobody 'studies' Steve Dawson of Saxon because everyone can understand it pretty much off the bat. No one can do Michael Manring because it requires a complete adjustment of every shred of technique we have. Everyone else is on a continuum in between. Squire's playing (which I love, by the way, and have done for about 45 years) is nearer Dawson than Manring on that continuum. His lines, whilst interesting and creative, are, in the main, not that difficult to play. 

Edited by Bilbo

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10 hours ago, Bilbo said:

 His lines, whilst interesting and creative, are, in the main, not that difficult to play. 

The very word ('difficult') Geddy Lee used when describing his experience of copping Squire's line to 'Roundabout' for his R&RHoF performance with Yes. Don't understand why you're wilfully subjugating his playing as like Dobbie Dawson's? When you make these comments about Squire's parts I assume you're factoring in your ability to sing harmony vocals and add bass pedals too? Like Dobbie Dawson didn't.

PS nothing against Dobbie Dawson. Enjoyed '747 Strangers in the Night'.

Edited by visog

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Thanks @Bilbo Really appreciate many of your posts.

I'm not a sight reader but can work my way thru it in my own time. I add that to listening to the song and it works for me.

Was never a huge Yes fan but i liked CTTE and Going FT One because of how the bass fitted around the music. I don't use a pick so this makes the challenge more enjoyable trying to get CS sound from my fingers. If Geddy can do it then it can be done. :laugh1:

Dave

 

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30 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

If Geddy can do it then it can be done. :laugh1:

 

Geddy did a great job alongside an imploding Yes. I like Bilbo's posts too but he does get himself in the position of granting authorty chops, swing, etc. And his usual swinging judgement is that no-one measures up: Squire -  technique, Pastorius  - swing. I wouldn't mind but Jeff's as dull as ditchwater plumbing the functional harmony of yesteryear and Michael Manring playing with the harmonic sophitication of Busted.

Edited by visog

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