Precision Jazz Stingray lash up.

[Maude]

It's evolving, I think! 

I re-shaped the the neck heel to fit the body better and screwed the neck with E and G tuners on and fitted the old bridge (it fits the holes, the new one doesn't) and put two strings on to make sure it all lined up, and to get a centre line to work from. Luckily, now the neck fits further into the pocket, the neck was rounded but the body is square, the screw holes line up and I don't need to plug and redrill the neck, woo hoo! 

I have a decision to make with the scratchplate and pickup but more of that in a bit. 

With the scratchplate in place I've been trying to get the control plate to fit nicely. As the body is slightly different to a Ray the control just looks a bit odd, with the edge following the curve of the lower bout it's too far towards the bridge but with it in the right place in comparison to the bridge and scratchplate, it doesn't follow the curve of the body. It's not much but it just looks a bit awkward. Also the Precision cavity isn't completey covered by the scratchplate and control plate so will need a small section filling in. The better looking control plate location leaves a bigger void to fill so it's a balancing game. After a bit I thought I wonder what a new scratchplate that incorporated the Ray shape with the lower end of a P plate might look like, I'm not trying to make a Ray clone after all. I dug out the original P plate and laid it on the body with the Ray one on top and instantly thought, ooh that's cool. But instead of making a complete one I think it will look good as two plates. A bit Jazz-esque was my thought but both made from scratchplate material. Even though one plate is black and the other white I can see it in my mind and its got a definate Baldwin/Burns look about it, which is good as that's another bass I've always loved the look of. 

I'm going to mull it over this evening but I think I'll be throwing some Baldwin in the mix as well. It will save having to infill the cavity as well which is good because if I paint this black then no matter how good the filling, it will shrink over time making it visible in the right light.

Shame I have got an old black scratcplate to knock one up from quick. 

The other issue is the scratchplate/pickup location. As this isn't a Ray body or neck, to have the pickup in exactly the right place it means the scratchplate is moved towards the bridge leaving about a 3mm gap between it and the neck, with it all being black it won't really notice but I'd rather it was snug. But having it snug means the pickup is 3-4mm closer to the neck, and I wanted it in exactly the right spot. Do I go for tone over cosmetics? 

 

[Maude]

Quick mock ups to see lay outs. 

This is with the control plate fully covering the cavity but it then eats into the scratchplate in a telecaster kind of way. 

This is where the control plate looks best. Still to far back for a Stingray but better looking. The cavity will need filling though which will show up in the future. 

This you'll need imagination for. Ignore the horns of the scratchplate and imagine the two plates bevelled on the join like a Baldwin/Burns, maybe even a top horn plate. I'll make them in black card tomorrow to better envisage it. 

[Maude]

I've sat back and mulled this over for a couple of days. I remembered I brought some leftover basecoats home from work before lockdown as I had a Vespa engine cover to do a custom paint job on for our guitarist, so I had a few  more colour options at hand. I really like that Luke Blue and I had a graphite grey and some blue, but the blue has a green pearl edge to it and the resulting mix has too much of a green/gold look to it and I fear it's a bit 'old man's Honda' for what I had in mind. The grey on it's own is OK but definitely nothing like like Luke Blue. I still like the idea of black but it is very 'safe'. 

So after some careful thought, red it is. 😆

I don't particularly like red basses but I've got a very nice dark red metallic here which I quite like, and the chrome, black and the maple neck should work well with it. 

Then whislt browsing the forum last night I re-read @Andyjr1515s thread about reducing the weight of a Harley Benton jazz as I had thought about taking some weight out of this one, not because it's heavy but because with the bigger pickup magnets, bridge and adding a great big metal control plate this bass is gaining weight. Whilst reading I saw the neck was the same as mine, and Andy stained the bass red. Hmm red, black and maple, the same as I was considering, and it looked good. So I've kind of made my mind up to go for the proper stingray look in red.

That meant partially filling the precision cavity between the control plate and scratchplate. I cut some wood to fit and hammered and glued it in place, rembering to leave a 'tunnel' for the pickup wire to run though. The next day I took out the excess with a forstner bit and while I was there, drawing inspiration from Andy's thread, I took a lot out from under the scratchplate, I left a little island to support the centre of the plate. I tidied the edges with a chisel but I don't see the need to get the router out to smooth the cavity floor as I've nowhere to clamp it and holding the body between my legs while freehand routing doesn't appeal. I smoothed over the wood fillet and unnecessary screwholes with some filler and sanded down. Then gave the body another coat of primer. 

I realise all this making my mind up live on air so to speak must be getting boring, but I think I'm pretty much there, maybe. 😉

Here's the body after wood fillet, filling and weight reduction (the body was originally red), then in primer. A quick rub tomorrow and it'll be ready for paint. 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Maude

[Ricky 4000]

23 minutes ago, Maude said:

So I've kind of made my mind up to go for the proper stingray look in red

Nice!

What about the pup position thing? You'll have a gap between PG and heel of the neck if you put the pup in the right spot?

I was thinking about the 3+1 headstock thing... particularly if you're going for a stingray look... plug the holes, re-drill, re-shape if required, paint the front red, yeah, but at the back -- how about sticking on a thin layer (black 1mm plastic or something?) to hide the re-working...? Has anybody ever done that?

[Maude]

The gap between the scratchplate and the neck is only a few mil so I could put some black tape on the body first to disguise it.

Or just fit the pickup a few mil closer to the neck. It then won't be in exactly the right place but can it make that m difference? My other thinking with moving the pickup slightly is that I always favour a neck pickup on two pickup basses, and without having an active circuit to boost the bass or mids then maybe moving it slightly will actual be beneficial, whilst hopefully still retaining a proper Stingray tone. 

On my Variax, the basses it models that only have a single pickup have the ability to virtually move the pickup between the bridge and neck with the pickup blend knob. They still retain their core tone but sound fuller or thinner depending on placement, yes it's virtual modelling but the theory's there. 

The 3+1 thing really doesn't bother me. I quite like the fact it's a Jazz neck. The body won't look 'right' as a Ray because the actual shape is wrong. The Ray's lower bout goes further towards the lower horn than the P, hence why the control plate won't sit in the correct place. I'm embracing the fact it's a mix of basses. I might even put a magpie logo on the headstock as it's a collection of shiny bits I've found lying around. 

[Maude]

1 hour ago, Ricky 4000 said:

I was thinking about the 3+1 headstock thing... particularly if you're going for a stingray look... 

Sorry @Ricky 4000, when I said "proper Stingray look", I meant the scratchplate and control plate placement (out of the three options pictured earlier) rather than a full on copy.

I'm still quite intrigued by the idea of a Ray scratchplate with the lower half of a Precision scratchplate added, but still kept separate with a couple of mil between them, and the adjacent edges bevelled like the rest of the plate. With black on black I think it could look quite cool as the white lines around the outside would highlight the shape without it be too in your face. Even add a top horn too it, like the 'cowpoke' basses.

Uh oh, here I go again. 🤔😆

[Ricky 4000]

4 hours ago, Maude said:

I'm still quite intrigued by the idea of a Ray scratchplate with the lower half of a Precision scratchplate added

Yup, that could be very cool... one thing you can't do now is 'no scratchplate'! 😃

Edited May 4, 2020 by Ricky 4000

[Waddycall]

Ive just fitted a MM pickup (Nordstrand MM4.2) to my fretless Jazz. I’ve put it between the jazz pickups as recommended by a member on here so it’s about 15mm (I think) further from the bridge than it should be. It’s passive. As it’s on a fretless it’s a bit tricky comparing tone to my fretted ray34 but I’d say it sounds a bit fatter but still got a good bit of the stingray tone. I wasn’t sure about fitting it there initially but I experimented by taping the pickup wires onto the end of a guitar cable, connecting it to my amp and holding the pickup in front of the strings whilst randomly plucking. Worked surprisingly well!

[songofthewind]

Something like this pickguard and control plate combo, perhaps?

[Maude]

1 hour ago, Waddycall said:

Ive just fitted a MM pickup (Nordstrand MM4.2) to my fretless Jazz. I’ve put it between the jazz pickups as recommended by a member on here so it’s about 15mm (I think) further from the bridge than it should be. It’s passive. As it’s on a fretless it’s a bit tricky comparing tone to my fretted ray34 but I’d say it sounds a bit fatter but still got a good bit of the stingray tone. I wasn’t sure about fitting it there initially but I experimented by taping the pickup wires onto the end of a guitar cable, connecting it to my amp and holding the pickup in front of the strings whilst randomly plucking. Worked surprisingly well!

Thanks for that. On the strength of your post I'm going to fit the pickup a few mil towards the neck so that a standard scratchplate fits correctly. So if anything goes wrong it's all your fault. 😆

[Maude]

57 minutes ago, songofthewind said:

Something like this pickguard and control plate combo, perhaps?

That look good. 

I'm past the point of no return now anyway. I was only considering a hybrid plate so I didn't have to infill the cavity between scratchplate and control plate and extend the control plate cavity, which I've now done. Standard(ish) looking Ray it is. 

🙂

[Waddycall]

1 hour ago, Maude said:

Thanks for that. On the strength of your post I'm going to fit the pickup a few mil towards the neck so that a standard scratchplate fits correctly. So if anything goes wrong it's all your fault. 😆

You’ve got me worried now! You can hear me playing a repetitious cheesy riff on it here-

 

[songofthewind]

53 minutes ago, Waddycall said:

You’ve got me worried now! You can hear me playing a repetitious cheesy riff on it here-

 

That sounds good to me. I've got a gash Jazz body and a SUB Ray 4 MM pickup, I'm going to try a lash up too.

[Maude]

8 hours ago, Waddycall said:

You’ve got me worried now! You can hear me playing a repetitious cheesy riff on it here-

 

Sounds good to me, and nicely played. 

I was only joking anyway. 3 or 4 mil towards the neck is negligible and at least then the scratchplate will fit, especially as I might replace the black one I've got with an ivory one which will only make a gap between it and the neck stand out even more. 

I've just put the first couple of coats of paint on and if anyone's spraying waterbased paint and runs out of degreaser, don't think "Oh it'll be alright", it won't. 

I'm currently letting it dry properly and then rubbing some horrible marks out before continuing. Just the oils in your fingerprints is enough to cause the waterbased paint to repel away from it, kind of how silicone makes solvent paint 'fisheye' but the rings are fingerprint size. derrière!! 

Nevermind, it's the joys working at home with whatever you've got to hand. 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Maude

[Maude]

17 minutes ago, songofthewind said:

That sounds good to me. I've got a gash Jazz body and a SUB Ray 4 MM pickup, I'm going to try a lash up too.

You've got to love a good lash up. 😆

I've got the left hand Jazz body from the neck I'm using and I tried a few mock ups of using the body upside down with the control plate cavity filled and a Ray scratchplate and control plate, it looked quite cool in a reverse thunderbird sort of way and quite bizarre, but in a good way. The main reason I didn't go for it is because the lower horn became the upper horn, and being so short it just wouldn't have balanced well. Neck dive city! 

[Maude]

Hmm, things haven't gone well. After the basecoat issues I lightly sanded the marks out and successfully got the basecoat on, but waiting for it to dry midway through put me behind schedule. I'd arranged to pickup some gardening tools from about a mile away as my little stroll for today. I was hoping to get the lacquer on before I went but as I was running late I had to go while the basecoat dried, waterbase basecoat has to be thoroughly dry before putting solvent lacquer over the top. By the time I'd got back the wind had picked up and my workshop is a little draughty (another job to sort this summer). Anyway as I was using aerosol lacquer and couldn't be bothered to fire up the compressor and use my air fed mask I left the door open a bit to let the overspray blow through (I had a cartridge mask on), which wasn't the cleverest thing I've ever done as after the first couple of coats I had a couple of tiny flies and several bits of dust in the finish. I've let it dry and will flat them out and re-lacquer tomorrow, possibly a touch of colour if the flies leave bits behind. 

The good thing is I'm really happy with the colour. The red I found is a deep red pearl, but the flake is quite silver as opposed to the usual gold most pearl reds contain. I also found some pearl black shadow, which is clear but adds darkness to the shaded parts. Too much and it adds a blue hue under certain light so you have to use sparingly. The silver highlights and black shadows in red pearl have really given it a sort of chrome appearance, albeit red, if that makes sense. A candy effect without the troublesome application of candy paint. 

This is the colour but the proper finish comes tomorrow, hopefully if I can get the aerosol to play ball. 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Maude
Forgot to add picture.

[Maude]

This is it with a bit more light on it, artificial house lights though. 

 

[Pea Turgh]

It looks like it would taste nice.  Mmm, toffee apples...

[Simon.]

Fabulous colour!

[Ricky 4000]

Sweet!

[songofthewind]

Nice paint job!

[Maude]

1 hour ago, songofthewind said:

Nice paint job!

Very kind of you to say so, but it really isn't. 🙂

The finish is really dry but I'm letting it fully harden before I flat and re-lacquer. The colour I'm really happy with though. 

[Maude]

As this is single pack aerosol lacquer I'm letting it fully harden before I flat and re-lacquer it. I fear that if I re-lacquer today then it will never fully harden as the solvents will get sealed in. 

While waiting for it to fully harden I couldn't resist a quick mock up to see what it'll look like. Even if I say so myself, this colour is bangin' (see I can talk street 😆). It works really well with the fretboard colour, and will only get better as that darkens with age. I've thought about getting a vintage white pearloid scratchplate as I think that could work well, it would have to be very creamy though. I don't even like pearloid, much like I don't like red, but I think it could work on this. I'd like the white laminate of the current one to be more yellowed and I might try soaking it in a strong tea or coffee solution, I don't think it'll work but there's no harm in trying. 

I said earlier in this thread that I see Ray's as a more modern design, I know they're not but it's a testiment to their great design, I think this colour bridges that vintage/modern gap as well. It's a modern pearl metallic but being so dark it works well with creamy vintage tones. 

The eagle eyed among us may have noticed a recess cut into to top of the headstock. It needs some sort of decal/logo and I decided that as this is really a collection of shiny bits I've picked up here and there then it should be my 'Magpie' bass. I've got a little magpie decal on it's way and I've got an old sixpence which will be inlaid in the recess, then all lacquered in. 

I realise I'm waffling on about this now so I'll shut up 😆

[Waddycall]

That looks awesome!

[songofthewind]

I think the whole thing works very well together! If I saw that in a catalogue or online, I would think it was a production bass.