urb Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 [quote name='lozbass' post='413914' date='Feb 19 2009, 09:35 AM']I don't really have the time to get into detail - another busy day! However, I find this a bit of a difficult thread: there simply aren't enough Foderas around in the UK for players to get to try them and form a realistic, personal judgement. I've been fortunate enough to play a good number of very high end UK, US and European basses over the years. Among these have been a few Foderas (a couple of which have been superb instruments IMO). How do the 'good' Foderas compare with the competition?...I'd say at the top end of the bunch (but the quality at this stratospheric level is generally amazing and preferences really are a matter of personal taste). Are Foderas worth the premium price? Another difficult one and down to the individual's preferences, perceptions and desires. I think there's some hype in the equation and the exclusivity factor appears to exert a powerful influence at the level of collective and individual psyche (triggering both positive and negative reactions). However, an honest - and hopefully reasonably objective - opinion is that a good Fodera is as good as any other 'good' bass from a top luthier (with some possibly important and individual or defining characteristics, of course). Whist Fodera - as a company - doesn't need any help in justifying its prices, I can say that its basses are very complex instruments and attention to detail, build quality, jointing, timber choices and finishing is generally very high. Indeed, it's clear that a lot of thought and work goes into each (higher-end) Fodera - take a look at one if you get a chance and work out the 3D jigsaw of pieces! As to sound, I haven't found Foderas to be as 'polite' as many other boutique basses - indeed, I've been very impressed by the fat, comressed, very 'present' tone and by the ease with which an aggressive growl can be achieved. On playability - a good set-up is important - but I'm pretty sure that any Fodera can be tweaked to play superbly well. In sum, I'm pretty sure too that Foderas can match almost anything in terms of quality - it's a personal preference issue. They're not to everybody's taste (sonically, visually, aesthetically or ergonomically) but if you're attracted, try to get to play one (or a few) - it's just a real pity there aren't more around (and that the scarcity adds to the mystique and hype that we all need to move beyond).[/quote] Sorry but I have played at least 8 Foderas in my time - and yes a couple were wonderful basses - but I've also seen really bad sand-marks on the matte finnish on one, terrible mis-matched filling on the burl or another and as for the joinery on the necks I have seen better also. I was at the Musik Messe last year and there were a couple of Fodera's on the Epifani stand. One of them was a four string Monarch that had the most ridiculously wide spacing at the nut, it was almost unplayable in the low register because of that. And finally I just recently played the NYC model at the Gallery and it has one of the worst sounding circuits in that I've ever heard. All that said I've played a Sei six string with a Mike Pope circuit in that sounded just incredible and I know how wonderful some of the 'presentation' models can be - I've played a Matt G 5 string that was 'nice', and a Wooten YY which was also pretty cool, plus another 4 or 5 Monarchs (one was amazing, the rest so so) - so I think I have a pretty realistic idea of what a good Fodera represents. The main issue I feel is that the demand and prices may be uniform but the standards aren't... and that is based on my actual experience of playing them. Cheers Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Brown Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I think it's all down to how a particular instrument fits your dreams and/or needs. Urb hits the nail on the head. IMO Fodera instruments are as individual as any other "boutique" basses and individual examples will either float your boat or not. I've had around 5 Fodera basses through my hands over the years and of those 5 the 2 I've kept are IMO really very special instruments. I personally love the way Vinnie carves the necks. I've had the same experiences with a lot of other makes including Sei, F Bass, Ken Smith and Alembic. So the value question is not one that can be covered in a blanket way IMO, it all depends on the particular instrument. Currently have a Monarch 4 and the AJ Presentation 6. I almost made the error of selling the AJ but luckily for me the wife brought me back to my senses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 [quote name='Nick Brown' post='413990' date='Feb 19 2009, 10:52 AM']I personally love the way Vinnie carves the necks. I've had the same experiences with a lot of other makes including Sei, F Bass, Ken Smith and Alembic. Currently have a Monarch 4 and the AJ Presentation 6. I almost made the error of selling the AJ but luckily for me the wife brought me back to my senses. [/quote] Cool Nick - I was lucky enough to go to their workshop and meet both Vinnie and Joey (for that feature in BGM some months back) and they are top guys and realise the situation they are in (supply/demand/price etc) - my opinions of their basses are not biased against them personally and I know that they can and do produce stunning instruments - it's just a shame that the demands of a mass market don't match up with a relatively small workshop style business. As Vinnie said "the wood has to age for several years and that's the equivalent of putting £15,000 on a shelf for 5 years..." and the rents in Brooklyn are going through the roof... so I do sympathise a bit with them, but hey what luthier in the world wouldn't want to be in their situation? M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Brown Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 (edited) [quote name='urb' post='414010' date='Feb 19 2009, 11:03 AM']Cool Nick - I was lucky enough to go to their workshop and meet both Vinnie and Joey (for that feature in BGM some months back) and they are top guys and realise the situation they are in (supply/demand/price etc) - my opinions of their basses are not biased against them personally and I know that they can and do produce stunning instruments - it's just a shame that the demands of a mass market don't match up with a relatively small workshop style business. As Vinnie said "the wood has to age for several years and that's the equivalent of putting £15,000 on a shelf for 5 years..." and the rents in Brooklyn are going through the roof... so I do sympathise a bit with them, but hey what luthier in the world wouldn't want to be in their situation? M[/quote] I met Vinnie and Joey at Bass Day 2000 and they were both incredibly cool guys. Having since spoken to them on numerous occasions they have never been less than courteous and helpful. I am with you on the whole judgment of their instruments, each one stands or falls on it's own merits. There is no blanket all <insert name of maker> basses are bad/good, it's very much down to personal preference. Like any other luthiers they are going to have their share of problems and instruments that don't seem to hit the mark. I think also that sometimes as a player it's possible to find a maker whose idea of the perfect instrument closely mirrors your own and in that case price wouldn't be the primary consideration in the equation. I feel the parameters of the "perfect bass" can change over time too as playing style and requirements change. Nice Sei you have btw, I commissioned the first singlecut Martin built in an attempt to obtain something like the AJ, at the time Chris was still working with Martin, it was a nice bass too. It shows how tastes can change as now I only have one of my Sei basses left and it rarely gets played these days, no reflection at all on the quality of the bass which is superb. Edited February 19, 2009 by Nick Brown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 [quote name='Nick Brown' post='414056' date='Feb 19 2009, 11:34 AM']I met Vinnie and Joey at Bass Day 2000 and they were both incredibly cool guys. Having since spoken to them on numerous occasions they have never been less than courteous and helpful. I am with you on the whole judgment of their instruments, each one stands or falls on it's own merits. There is no blanket all <insert name of maker> basses are bad/good, it's very much down to personal preference. Like any other luthiers they are going to have their share of problems and instruments that don't seem to hit the mark. I think also that sometimes as a player it's possible to find a maker whose idea of the perfect instrument closely mirrors your own and in that case price wouldn't be the primary consideration in the equation. I feel the parameters of the "perfect bass" can change over time too as playing style and requirements change. Nice Sei you have btw, I commissioned the first singlecut Martin built in an attempt to obtain something like the AJ, at the time Chris was still working with Martin, it was a nice bass too. It shows how tastes can change as now I only have one of my Sei basses left and it rarely gets played these days, no reflection at all on the quality of the bass which is superb.[/quote] Indeed I've seen your remaining Sei (on TB)- probably worth hanging on to even if you don't play it - as for mine, yeah it does the job... [attachment=20538:sei_bass.jpg] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lozbass Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 (edited) Hi Mike, Nick, I don't think there's too much space between us. You've both played more Foderas than myself - I've been very impressed with three higher-end models, much less so with two less expensive basses. I haven't yet played one that I didn't think couldn't make the grade - in terms of playability - with a bit of tweaking but hear what you say (Mike) about the bass at Musik Messe (and a friend had some finish issues with one of his Fs). I am surprised to hear about experiences with less than perfect neck joinery - I really haven't come across this with any F. I agree that Fodera's are as individual as any other boutique bass and that (i) they stand or fall on their own merits, and (ii) not every Fodera is going to be stunning (I don't think my post could be interpreted as indicating otherwise?) The points I was trying to make are: first, there aren't that many Fs around so it's difficult for a majority of players to make up their own minds with respect to the question at the heart of the thread; and second, 'good' Foderas can compete with pretty much anything else (though of course, personal tastes and playing styles will shape the reaction of individual players). The core of my argument is try before you buy (and for as long as possible - as with many basses, a period of mutual accommodation is required). Nick - I agree that it's possible to find a builder whose ideas match closely with your own and then the co-creation of a 'perfect' instrument (albeit the perception and associated emotions can be transitory!) might transcend consideration of price. On to Seis, I'm currently selling the singlecut that you commissioned - it is indeed a nice bass but the scale-lengh and width of the board defeated me in the end. Cheers, Loz Edited February 19, 2009 by lozbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 And you don't always get stuff like this happening in most luthier shops (well this was actually in the Epifani workshop below Fodera) - Matt Garrison jamming with Colombian harp monster Edmar Casteneda - yes it's me making all the 'wow' noises - it was hard not to when hearing the stuff up close: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GremlinAndy Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Also, the phrase "worth it" is very subjective. Someone on a low wage might find the price of a USA Fender hard to justify and *not worth it* ...but if the same guy wins the lottery the *worth* of any bass might be less dictated by the buying price and more on preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 [quote name='GremlinAndy' post='414276' date='Feb 19 2009, 02:10 PM']Also, the phrase "worth it" is very subjective. Someone on a low wage might find the price of a USA Fender hard to justify and *not worth it* ...but if the same guy wins the lottery the *worth* of any bass might be less dictated by the buying price and more on preference.[/quote] +1 M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullrangebass Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I've owned 4 Foderas up to this moment and I've kept the two (have played another 3 Foderas, as well). It all boils down to what you think it's worth. Good materials and construction, good attention to the details, ergonomics are closer to the "old school" side (wide neck and bridge string spacing; not my fave really) but the tone is something very personal and subjective. My R-bass was on par with with the best Foderas I've tried, for a fraction of the price; resale value for the R-bass was not as good, if one bought it brand new. If one person cannot hear the difference between a specific Fodera and another specific bass, then it's not worth to even try to acquire it (no need to generalize, unless one has extensive informed knowledge from personal experience, but even then...). If one person can hear a considerable difference, then by all means it's worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flychris Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Yes, we could see we enter in the psychologic and emotional aspects ... If you find something beautiful, doesn't matter the price and if you can afford it, you will buy it... we could generalise that to any instruments, and to all things ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Well hopefully a great bass is just a means to an end - making music... knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing leads to the kind of global financial meltdown we are in now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Nick Brown' post='413990' date='Feb 19 2009, 10:52 AM']I think it's all down to how a particular instrument fits your dreams and/or needs. Urb hits the nail on the head. IMO Fodera instruments are as individual as any other "boutique" basses and individual examples will either float your boat or not. So the value question is not one that can be covered in a blanket way IMO, it all depends on the particular instrument.[/quote] This is something so many people fail to grasp, that individual examples of a marque (particularly a boutique one) can vary so much and for so many reasons that one example may be exactly what a particular player doesn't want and another may be spectacular. I can say this about every single make of bass I've ever tried, boutique or budget, that no one makes instruments that I will like 10 times out of 10. FWIW I haven't yet played a Fodera I've loved, but I'm hoping Loz's might change that situation. I have however played Mike's Sei which is as good as anything I've ever played; so good I was going to commission one very similar until sidetracked by a Flamboyant 5 hanging on the wall in the Gallery. The commission will therefore have to wait a while. I also tried Loz's (formerly Nick's) s/cut, but unfortunately was also defeated by the neck. Mike, have you played Matt's bass? If so, what's it like? I love the look and the sound he gets, although my personal favourite is probably Janek's, which looks like the easiest playing bass in the world... Edited February 19, 2009 by 4000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I like cheese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 [quote name='Delberthot' post='415256' date='Feb 20 2009, 01:22 PM']I like cheese[/quote] So do I I still wonder if they are that much better than Wal, Sei, GB etc etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lozbass Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 [quote name='bass_ferret' post='415906' date='Feb 21 2009, 12:18 AM']I still wonder if they are that much better than Wal, Sei, GB etc etc etc[/quote] I don't think they're any better - a 'good' one will be as good as a 'good' example of anything mentioned (but obviously, it will have its own characteristics and appeal more to some players than others in terms of playability, sonic potential, aesthetics etc.) An earlier post raises a useful point for anybody considering a Fodera - there is something a bit 'old school' about the examples I've tried - string spacing is often fairly wide, neck dimensions can be chunky, and there's a degree of solidity and general 'chunkiness' that a lot of high-end, custom builds don't exhibit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 [quote name='bass_ferret' post='415906' date='Feb 21 2009, 12:18 AM'] So do I I still wonder if they are that much better than Wal, Sei, GB etc etc etc[/quote] Only if you think they are. That's all that matters. In some ways it's trying to quantify the unquantifiable. Using an art analogy, is Picasso better than Van Gogh? Whose art is worth more? It's purely subjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Had the chance to play both a Fodera and a GB Rumour last night. They were different and the Fodera can be used passive. Would not like to say which was best without gigging them - both great basses and I am very happy with my new Rumour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 [quote name='bass_ferret' post='417707' date='Feb 23 2009, 06:59 PM']Had the chance to play both a Fodera and a GB Rumour last night. They were different and the Fodera can be used passive. Would not like to say which was best without gigging them - both great basses and I am very happy with my new Rumour.[/quote] So, did you pick up your new GB Rumour locally, in Brighton, then John? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Yes. He has hopefully sold his Wal as well to pay for the Fodera. What did you think of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballie Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Personally I couldn't afford a Fodera, they look amazing though! At the same time, Hadrien Feraud owns a Beez Elite 5 custom built to the specs of his Burner 5 which he plays more often. He gets a similarly great sound out of both basses because of technique and the VLE filter on the Markbass amp! The price difference between the two basses is comfortably £5000, probably more. I see him playing his burner over anything else, and the guy has flawless technique, tone and makes any bass he plays sound great. To the Anthony Jackson signature, AJ sounds great on any bass too! He uses technique to get different tones rather than two pickups. If you really want to go nuts getting a good tone, replace the pickups and circuit, or use a Boss GT10-B. It's a cheaper way to create the tone you've always been after! Sticking a Schack circuit in my Ibanez SR506 turned it into a whole new monster... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KERMITNT Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 the best tone is the bass itself and the amp then you can mess around. But when ive seen this beauty i felt in love awsome... (only the look dont know how it sounds...) [url="http://s687.photobucket.com/albums/vv238/mizuno76/"]http://s687.photobucket.com/albums/vv238/mizuno76/[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesk86 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 [quote name='KERMITNT' post='420026' date='Feb 26 2009, 12:52 PM']the best tone is the bass itself and the amp then you can mess around. But when ive seen this beauty i felt in love awsome... (only the look dont know how it sounds...) [url="http://s687.photobucket.com/albums/vv238/mizuno76/"]http://s687.photobucket.com/albums/vv238/mizuno76/[/url][/quote] Thats a beauty!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KERMITNT Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 [quote name='Jamesk86' post='420128' date='Feb 26 2009, 05:04 PM']Thats a beauty!!!!![/quote] so i am not paranoid looking at it all the time i think is the best jazz bass ever seen in my life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flippyfloop Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I love my newly purchased Fodera. I've been searching for a bass that's right for me for nearly 20 years ! I had to pull out all the stops to afford it and sell two much loved basses. I also have a Yamaha RBX 350 that I bought in 1992 / 93 ? Turned it into a fretless a few years ago & I love playing it also. Fodera £3,500 / Yamaha RBX 350 £270. Both priceless in the eyes of the beholder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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