Jakester Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 I have just taken delivery of a Behringer XR18. Aside from getting an external router if I want to use the WiFi at a venue, what else is essential for me to know? I’m planning on using it as a recording interface into Reaper, and for live use. I’ve downloaded the x-air app on my MacBook to set it up - any great sources of tips, tricks etc? It’s going to be flightcased with a feedback destroyer for the times we use floor monitors in a couple of dodgy venues (hoping to persuade everyone to go to IEMs but early days so far). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Disclaimer: I know nothing about any Apple products. All comments are based on use of Windows and Android. Use the external router every time you use the XR18; avoid the internal router like the plague. Routers tend to be very light & flimsy ... velcro it (like a pedal) to the top of the flightcase. Better still, mount it permanently inside the flightcase; Cat 5 networking cable is simply not designed to be plugged / unplugged frequently and will break. Use it with a laptop connected hard-wired (NOT wi-fi) to the XR18; you really do not need the aggro of a loss of wireless signal midway through a gig. Use the laptop to establish all connections & initial levels as you set up each time, then use remote devices (phones & tablets using wi-fi) to control the board during the gig. Establish a clear, logical sequence for plugging everything together and powering up the system; then stick to it at every gig. If at all possible, buy the upgraded Mixing Station X-Air Pro app to replace the free one that came with it; it's better and it's only a fiver or something. Remember to make the app purchase part of your 'Family' so that you can download it onto multiple devices. Allow for several days/weeks of pain while you get to grips with the utterly non-intuitive interface for, e.g. customising the layout for your screen. Be prepared to write down step-by-step instructions to ensure that you don't re-invent the wheel or start from scratch every few months. If you're anywhere near Harrow, come round for a tutorial. Go easy on the plug-ins and FX to start. It's a very clever piece of kit but it's worth starting with everything pretty vanilla until you know what you're doing. Be particularly careful when messing around with Compressors and Limiters, and tread extra slow if you decide to start by using the supplied pre-sets ... they don't necessarily do what you thought! A disaster, then? Far from it. Once you've cracked it, you should find the XR18 completely reliable and trouble-free. If (like us) you have a @Silvia Bluejay to sit out front and control FoH sound then these units are not only bloody marvellous but they also impress venue managers and confuse the hell out of punters. Be prepared for some good apres-gig stories. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 (edited) Yes, your FoH person - NOT the band - will be asked by the audience for their favourite songs, and they won't understand why said FoH person points them to the band leader to ask him/her the question instead. The Pro app is better - doesn't crash, allows customisation of the tablet's display, and moves the Mute button from almost constantly under your fingertips at the bottom of each channel strip to a safer place higher up. Edited February 4, 2020 by Silvia Bluejay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakester Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 Thanks very much, some great tips there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 I don't use a laptop, and we don't have the luxury of a FoH person, so I have to do it all, which isn't ideal. I use an iPad, and although I use the mixing station app, I still use the X18 app in times of panic, probably because i find the layout more familiar. Certainly easier to setup the compressors etc on mixing station. Actually I do take a laptop occasionally, I have an old macbook air that I use when I want to record stuff, generally just straight into garage band (remembering where the record enable is!). Seeing as I also use my iPad for synths and occasional lyrics, it can get a bit multitasking some times! Me, the singer and the drummer are in ear, the guitarist isn't. I didn't actually use a separate wifi router for the first year of having it until I ran into trouble, its uncommon it happens, but when it does you will know about it. I just use a cheap router that is actually smaller than a mains plug. Mine is actually the X18, as it was £100 cheaper when I originally upgraded from the XR16, although now it is the same. Functionally there isn't any difference apart from an additional phono output. The only thing you can really do is spend time with it - some things are obvious, some things less so, especially routing of effects and effect channels, but familiarity helps with all these things. They are amazing devices, although I did a gig once with a X32 and was rather impresses with that (although not the screen!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewblack Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Don't know what this 'flight case' that happy jack keeps mentioning but I do know that velcro doesn't stick to the old suitcase I carry mine around in. I used the internal router without an issue... until I had an issue! Busy city centre pub, lots of interference, kept losing connection. BUT it taught me an important lesson. Once set up and sound checked it all still works regardless of the tablet being connected. So learn how to save snapshots (behringer YouTube tutorials are ace) and you can have a basic set up which will work even if your tablet or phone catches fire! Oh and don't waste money on an expensive laptop or tablet. I was given a Tesco Hudl by a gear snob whose gear snob offspring refused to use it! So that is the mixing desk. It works fine. I have the app on other devices just in case but have never needed them. I do use an external router now so I am in the lordly realm of the 5G brigade gliding high and interference free above mere 2.4g mortals. Above all do not be afraid. Treat it as a fun bit of kit and enjoy it. Take it to rehearsals, set it up in your bedroom, put your TV through it, just use it loads until you become familiar with it. You'll never look back. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) Oh alright Stew, I'll rise to the bait! Let us start with a simple illustration of a flightcase or - more accurately, if at the risk of potentially seeming to be pedantic - a rackcase. In this case (ha ha ha, did you see what I did there? Oh well, please yourselves) it is an 8U case, for reasons that will become clear. Now let's open the front, shall we? We're going to look through the rectangular window. "Aha!", I hear you say, "What's that peeping out from the bottom of the case?". Oh look, children, it's an extending shelf with an external router on it! How exciting!!! Just pop the aerials into the appropriate position, and Robert is your Mother's brother. Well that's what she told Mrs. Snodgrass from no.38 anyway. While we're here, take a moment to let your eyes feast on the elegant and decisive use of gaffa tape as an aid to reliable performance. By getting my settings right, and then taping over various flick-switches and a number of sockets I really, really don't want to plug into by accident, I avoid accidents. What's that you say, Sooty? You want to see what happens behind all this? Oh very well. So there you are, boys and girls. Play safe, and sleep well. Edited February 5, 2020 by Happy Jack 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 I should also mention that the four plugs you see in use on the frontplate (Main Output L/R and MP3 Input L/R ch.17/18) were custom made for me by @obbm and can't be found in the shops! The aim is to leave as much pluggery in place permanently as I possibly can. Saves time and reduces frustration & aggravation at gigs. Those angled plugs allow me to put the cover on with everything remaining where it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 I'm a lot like Happy Jack, although admittedly not as happy. An external router is a MUST. I'm also a pc nerd so I can thoroughly recommend anything from Mikrotik. Particularly something like the hAP AC lite. A gig is not a good time to learn how to do something. Not only does the Behringer have way more features than an analogue mixer, they're all more hidden, harder to find in a pinch and smaller and fiddlier to control. Book a large hall in a community center or something, set up like at a gig and get gains, basic eq and things like noise gates set as good as you can. Then you can save this as a scene and and work from there at a gig. Lastly, do please set up a rack with everything in. I have the mixer, a multimedia music player (permanently wired into 17/18), a router (an older 2.4GHz that I keep meaning to upgrade but it works ok) and a power strip. I've wired the ethernet into the router and put a USB trail on too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Jack said: I'm a lot like Happy Jack, although admittedly not as happy. Ha! 😎 Booking a hall for testing is fine, but only for the really basic stuff. If the hall is not full of people, or if it has got sparse upholstery, and/or reflective surfaces, much of the EQ and the levels, and quite a lot else, will end up being set all wrong, and will have to be re-done, differently, for each and every venue the band plays. This is especially true if the band mainly plays pubs, as HJ's two bands do. Don't ask me how I know... Edited February 5, 2020 by Silvia Bluejay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 27 minutes ago, Jack said: An external router is a MUST. I'm also a pc nerd so I can thoroughly recommend anything from Mikrotik. Particularly something like the hAP AC lite. Like that routerboard a lot - very neat indeed. Presumably the antennae are inside? If that works, why do so many routers have the external ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Happy Jack said: Like that routerboard a lot - very neat indeed. Presumably the antennae are inside? If that works, why do so many routers have the external ones? I've got 2 mikrotik products at the moment and I've had a couple of older models in the past, they've been consistently brilliant. They're one of those brands that does one thing and does it really, really well. The operating system that they run, RouterOS, is the most amazingly configurable and detailed firmware you can ever imagine. As an example, not only is the wifi network that my little hAp mini kicking out password protected (as you could do on any router) but it's also set to only allow connection from certain MAC addresses. Meaning that even if someone knows, guesses, or sniffs the password they still can't actually connect unless they're physicall using my laptop, recording PC, tablet, or the band member's phones (they do their own monitor mixes). If someone tries to connect to the router without the password it's logged, if someone tries to connect with the right password but the wrong MAC I get an instant email. I can actually view a report of people trying to connect to our router's wifi at a gig. At home we use our router to ensure that my PC and the gf's mabook always have priority access to the internet, regardless of phones and stuff trying to update silently in the background, photo collections updating to the cloud, regular backups rsyncing to our server or whatever slowing the network down. The antennae thing is hotly debated by people even nerdier and sadder than myself. At a basic level, antennae like the ones in a router give a signal in a doughnut shape with the physical antenna sticking through the hole in the middle of the doughnut. In an ideal world (or outside) you can move and angle those antennae to give you coverage pattern that you want. They're also kept slightly farther away from the AC power that a router uses which can sometimes interfere. However, to me many of these potential benefits are lost when you're not outside on a clear day with nothing else around. In a noisy pub with 50 different punters' phones, IP security cameras and a dodgy hacked android running the TV I can't see it making a difference. Mine has never once missed a beat and mine's only 2.4GHz. Edited February 5, 2020 by Jack 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Silvia Bluejay said: Ha! 😎 Booking a hall for testing is fine, but only for the really basic stuff. If the hall is not full of people, or if it has got sparse upholstery, and/or reflective surfaces, much of the EQ and the levels, and quite a lot else, will end up being set all wrong, and will have to be re-done, differently, for each and every venue the band plays. This is especially true if the band mainly plays pubs, as HJ's two bands do. Don't ask me how I know... This is of course true but I find that a lot of time is saved by knowing that the gain structure, effects routing, monitor mixes and eq are 75% rather than 0% done. That's a HUGE difference at every gig. As you'll know (but others may not so I'll type it our anyway!) it's possible to save nearly everything in the Behringer software. Either the whole deal all at once or just indvidually. I have the profiles of the main mix EQ saved for most of our regular venues. Yes, they always require some tweaking, but they're infinitely better than starting from scratch and having to figure out that there's room boom at 200Hz to take out and a horrible squeak at 9.2kHz that needs pulling. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Absolutely. And it helps you get familiar with how to plug everything together without having to think about it too hard. And at least, you get to try levels, effects, etc. so you know what to press/drag/mute at exactly what time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 13 minutes ago, Silvia Bluejay said: ...And it helps you get familiar with how to plug everything together without having to think about it too hard.... I'm familiar. The rest of them, two whole band's worth, are still having to think about it very hard indeed. I even made laminates about a year ago and still at every gig it's "where does my wedge come out again?", "what number's my guitar DI supposed to go in?". 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) Wow, you lot are so organised and neat. I take the mixer out of the case, connect power, iem leads and WiFi and then everyone else plugs all their stuff in! i have a couple of base snapshots for normal rooms and some of the more challenging ones Edited February 5, 2020 by Woodinblack 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewblack Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) OK @Happy Jack I'll see your crazy over engineered gadgetry and raise you my charity shop suitcase! Pocket for ancient (FREE) Hudl with nothing on it but x-air software A second pocket on the back for, erm looks like Nurofen Now, let's open the big pocket.... we see the hi-tech impact protection NB this can also be used in the event of post gig alfresco sleeping. Wouldn't fancy spending a night in a layby with my swede on Jack's fancy sliding shelf! Remove the protective layer and voila! All you need Edited February 5, 2020 by stewblack 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Absolutely awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewblack Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Just now, Silvia Bluejay said: Absolutely awesome. 😊 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) Touche, Monsieur Pussycat ... Edited February 5, 2020 by Happy Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewblack Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 I have to admit I laughed at rehearsal last night. Singer breathed near the x18 and the router flew off the table onto the floor. If only I hadn't scoffed at HJ and his velcro I thought 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 3 hours ago, Woodinblack said: Wow, you lot are so organised and neat. I take the mixer out of the case, connect power, iem leads and WiFi and then everyone else plugs all their stuff in! You allow other band members to touch the PA? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakester Posted February 6, 2020 Author Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) Well, there we go - racked in with the feedback destroyer for the singer's wedge monitor (which I think I got from you, Happy Jack!) and a random rack effects unit which was lying around looking lonely. This rack case came with a nifty net over the rear cover with a zip in the middle, so til I get a rack PSU all the plugs etc can be stashed in there - genius! Got a couple of old routers kicking around so I"ll see if any of those work and velcro one to the inside too. Edited February 6, 2020 by Jakester 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Looking good! 👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) Nice setup, Jakester. I keep thinking it can't be that hard to do a feedback destroyer in software for the X-Airs. I wonder why there isn't one, especially as I'd hazard a guess that most X-Airs are used by bands running their own sound, often from the stage. Edited February 6, 2020 by Jack 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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