Playing in Church.

[xgsjx]

I enjoy coming back & reading this thread from time to time.
So many folk seem to have the same issues as the churches that I’ve been part of (or even tried being part of, but was just used for my skills & nothing else). 

It’s a shame there’s so much hassle with playing in a worship team, but at the same time, it makes me glad that I’m no longer part of a church or any religious organisation.

 

[ezbass]

9 minutes ago, xgsjx said:

it makes me glad that I’m no longer part of a church or any religious organisation.

A sad indictment of a lot of organised religion as a whole. However, whilst it doesn’t gladden me as such, that I can’t/won’t take part in organised religious services, I do enjoy the sense of freedom to practise in my own way, it

my disconnect provides.

[Nice Guy Rich]

The church is no different to any other organization, where there are people, there are problems.

 

We had one old lady leave my church because she said that I played the bass too loud, I explained to her that I just played it and that it was the Tech Team/Sound desk that govern the volume but she wasn't having it.  She blamed me and told me so, quite loudly in the middle of our local Sainsburys.

 

Church people are odd.....and that's coming from me,  a church person.

[bass_dinger]

57 minutes ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

We had one old lady leave my church because she said that I played the bass too loud, I explained to her that I just played it and that it was the Tech Team/Sound desk that govern the volume but she wasn't having it.  She blamed me and told me so, quite loudly in the middle of our local Sainsburys.

 

Was it her that was loud, or the Tech Team/Sound desk that made her sound loud?

 

I once saw someone play the bass without having the amplifier on - but she got compliments on her playing.    This suggests that people listen with their eyes: "It was great to see the young people playing!" - yes, but could you hear them?

 

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by bass_dinger

[Nice Guy Rich]

16 hours ago, bass_dinger said:

 

I once saw someone play the bass without having the amplifier on 

 

 

 

Did she not notice that she couldn't hear herself playing?  These kind of incidents infuriate me, it proves that she just turned up and played without caring how she sounded and how she fit in with the other musicians, she must be oblivious and living in her own f**king dreamworld.

[bass_dinger]

52 minutes ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

 

Did she not notice that she couldn't hear herself playing?  

No.

 

When she finished her one song, she turned round to switch it off, only to see that the amplifier was not on.

 

In mitigation, that was the first time she had played bass in front of the congregation (and the last), after just two practices (in which she had learnt to play the instrument, and learnt the song too).

[LukeFRC]

10 minutes ago, bass_dinger said:

No.

 

When she finished her one song, she turned round to switch it off, only to see that the amplifier was not on.

 

In mitigation, that was the first time she had played bass in front of the congregation (and the last), after just two practices (in which she had learnt to play the instrument, and learnt the song too).

Also - was DI taken before the amp? Lass playing her first gig could very well be hearing herself through the FOH or foldback …

[bass_dinger]

Just now, LukeFRC said:

Also - was DI taken before the amp? Lass playing her first gig could very well be hearing herself through the FOH or foldback …

 

There was no DI - the amp did not have one that worked.  Nor was it mic'd up.

 

We have all done it - played with our amp off. But we have the experience to hear that it is not working. 

 

It is the exaltation of youth - the view that it is good for them to play, even where they don't play well.  Like a recorder recital at a school assembly, it's all about the taking part, and very little to do with the quality. 

[LukeFRC]

Just now, bass_dinger said:

 

There was no DI - the amp did not have one that worked.  Nor was it mic'd up.

 

We have all done it - played with our amp off. But we have the experience to hear that it is not working. 

 

It is the exaltation of youth - the view that it is good for them to play, even where they don't play well.  Like a recorder recital at a school assembly, it's all about the taking part, and very little to do with the quality. 

You might be overlaying your own ideas on top of the situation.
she may very well have learned somewhere that the most professional thing is to not inturupt anything, keep playing and let the tech team sort the issue…. How long did it take the tech team to spot the problem and get it sorted? 

[bass_dinger]

4 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

You might be overlaying your own ideas on top of the situation.
she may very well have learned somewhere that the most professional thing is to not inturupt anything, keep playing and let the tech team sort the issue…. How long did it take the tech team to spot the problem and get it sorted? 

They did not appear to spot it - she only had one song. 

 

 

[Nice Guy Rich]

I feel so sorry for the fledgling bassist, who was mentoring her and, supposed to be looking after her?  New talent needs nurturing, not embarrassing in front of the whole church.

 

What were the Tech Team doing?  How did they not notice that there was no bass?  Didn't any other band members notice the lack of bass?

 

I agree with giving new players a platform and a chance to play but, they should still be able to tell if the amp is switched off.  If we start them off from day one with the idea that "it's someone else's job", they will never become reliable and accomplished, responsibility breeds responsibility.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Nice Guy Rich

[bass_dinger]

7 hours ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

I feel so sorry for the fledgling bassist, who was mentoring her and, supposed to be looking after her?  New talent needs nurturing, not embarrassing in front of the whole church.

 

You are right, she was pretty upset at the time, and has not played since. 

 

I was teaching (mentoring) her, and someone else wanted her to play bass (she preferred drums but that seat was filled).  

Week 1 decide a 4-chord song, learn where those 4 notes are, play it. Week 2, she forgot to bring her bass and had to borrow one, and practiced some more.  Week 3, she played in front of 200 people. The previous bassist turned off the amp after his song, which we never do.

 

She did not particularly want to play bass  and two 15 minute sessions were not enough to learn band-craft.

 

We no longer have this set up - if we are pointing at the fretboard to show where the notes are, teaching people how to play a C chord, and clapping out 4/4 beats for the drummer, it means that they are not stage-ready. 

 

Often, it is the parents pushing for their child to be involved in the band, and then using it as a free music lesson.  I was once asked by a parent  to fix a string on a child's guitar, then tune it, then asked how old the child needed to be to be in the band... 

 

 

[Richard R]

On 02/11/2023 at 13:22, xgsjx said:

It’s a shame there’s so much hassle with playing in a worship team, but at the same time, it makes me glad that I’m no longer part of a church or any religious organisation.

As has been said before, this thread is often an opportunity to let of a bit of steam, we don't necessarily post about the typical services where things go OK.

 

As a contrasting example:

Last Saturday almost everyone involved in worship at our church got together for the morning for one of the periodic sessions to reflect on the worship at our church. The theme this time was "excellence". I missed it, being out of the country, but I copy here the short version notes on band prep. This is pretty much what we do anyway.

 

 

 

I'm not posting this to say "hey we're great", just to show that it's not all doom and dismay at the coal-face of Church music! 

 

[xgsjx]

2 hours ago, Richard R said:

As has been said before, this thread is often an opportunity to let of a bit of steam, we don't necessarily post about the typical services where things go OK.

 

As a contrasting example:

Last Saturday almost everyone involved in worship at our church got together for the morning for one of the periodic sessions to reflect on the worship at our church. The theme this time was "excellence". I missed it, being out of the country, but I copy here the short version notes on band prep. This is pretty much what we do anyway.

 

 

 

I'm not posting this to say "hey we're great", just to show that it's not all doom and dismay at the coal-face of Church music! 

 

I get you. I was a Christian for a long time.

When I played in worship bands, there were some good sessions. Unfortunately though, there were more haphazard, disorganised times than there were good times. 
In spite of this, I always remained a caring, professional musician & played to the best of my ability (which to me, means keeping in time & not messing things up). 
Now I’m an exvangelical/deconstructionist & see the bible very differently. However, I’m not going to say that you should too. It’s your life & I think as long as you’re not hurting anyone, etc, then a person should be who they want to. 

[Nice Guy Rich]

18 hours ago, Richard R said:

 

 

I love this and I’m going to send it out the next time I lead worship.

[bass_dinger]

14 hours ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

I love this and I’m going to send it out the next time I lead worship.

 

It perhaps works better for @Richard Rteam, as they all agreed it.

 

For other churches, it is aspirational - something that we can use to inspire our own standards and behaviours.

 

As for me, I plan to start doing this myself and hope that others will follow. 

Edited November 5, 2023 by bass_dinger

[Owen]

I have been following this recent burst of activity. I have played in good bands and bad bands inside the church. I have played in good bands and bad bands outside the church. I would expect nothing else. It is just people. I have been the best player in a band. I have been the worst player in a band. Sometimes people gel musically and create something which is greater than the some of it's parts. Sometimes they do not. Inside and outside the church. I have learnt to never underestimate the ability of the people in any room to not hear what I am hearing. I am not saying that my ears are the final arbiter of anything, but I am an experienced musician and I know when it is right and when it is not. I also know how to make it better. But not everyone is able to accept that/in a place to act on that/interested in my opinion. I am at peace with that. This is not a defeatist attitude. There are so many variables in any of these equations that I have long given up trying to mend it. Obviously I will point things out in rehearsal. If there is a car crash then I will broach it afterwards. If I am playing then we will not speed up or slow down. Unless we do, and then I will go with the flow because the moment is more important than "being right". The kick and bass will sit together no matter how often I have to adapt. People play for all sorts of reasons and many of them do not align with why I play. But such is life. Unless we are all on a mortgage paying fee then we have to be able to step back and do the best we can. Do I want it to be the best possible inside and outside the church? Obviously, yes. But sometimes it is not. It is astonishing how little people notice and also, the world will still turn. And believe me, I have played with the worst drummer you have ever heard. I even went in to practice with him individually. He was fine there. I made him promise to do what we practised. He promised but then got all florid in the service. Grim. The congregation were blissfully ununaware. One trick is to prime the PA engineer to mix in a specific way. 

 

Because we REALLY care about the music then we presume everyone does. Perhaps the leadership are clueless about the situation. A quick chat might change the whole atmosphere. Perhaps they have never had the luxury of people who know what they are doing. Perhaps they do not want to presume that people would want to, or be willing or able to put the extra time in. 

 

Sorry, I am sitting outside a party on taxi duty and bored. 

[Richard R]

9 hours ago, Owen said:

Sorry, I am sitting outside a party on taxi duty and bored. 

That doesn't make your post any less valuable, Owen.

 

Though it does make me wish St Paul had signed off his letters in a similar manner 😁

[Nice Guy Rich]

On 04/11/2023 at 21:10, bass_dinger said:

 

It perhaps works better for @Richard Rteam, as they all agreed it.

 

 

That's a pivotal point, "they all agreed it", the last time we had a Worship Team meeting, which was way back in October 2022, less than half of the people actually turned up.

 

I've got a meeting with my Pastor tonight and I'm going to let him know how I'm feeling and what changes I think could be made.

 

 

[LukeFRC]

18 minutes ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

 

I've got a meeting with my Pastor tonight and I'm going to let him know how I'm feeling and what changes I think could be made.

RE: the worship team, or the anger management that @Dad3353 suggested? 

[Richard R]

40 minutes ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

I've got a meeting with my Pastor tonight and I'm going to let him know how I'm feeling and what changes I think could be made.

 

Hope it goes well.

 

[Nice Guy Rich]

@Richard R The meeting went incredibly well.  Instead of just sitting there and moaning, I went in with a positive approach, 6 pages of detailed ideas on how I think we can improve the Worship Team and, instead of using the word problems, I referred to them as weaknesses.

 

The main areas of weakness with our Worship Team that I addressed were; Poor Communication, Persistent Lateness and Lack of Commitment.

 

My Pastor was grateful for my honesty (albeit blunt at times) and welcomed my ideas, he's going to have a word with the main offenders and put some rules in place.

 

He reminded me of Hebrews 12:15 and it confirmed that a positive approach is always the right one; "See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many."

 

In short, I'm staying and the future looks bright.

[LukeFRC]

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

@Richard R The meeting went incredibly well.  Instead of just sitting there and moaning, I went in with a positive approach, 6 pages of detailed ideas on how I think we can improve the Worship Team and, instead of using the word problems, I referred to them as weaknesses.

 

The main areas of weakness with our Worship Team that I addressed were; Poor Communication, Persistent Lateness and Lack of Commitment.

 

My Pastor was grateful for my honesty (albeit blunt at times) and welcomed my ideas, he's going to have a word with the main offenders and put some rules in place.

 

He reminded me of Hebrews 12:15 and it confirmed that a positive approach is always the right one; "See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many."

 

In short, I'm staying and the future looks bright.

That sounds like a great outcome

[bass_dinger]

4 hours ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

put some rules in place.

Like these?

 

On 03/11/2023 at 20:31, Richard R said:

 

 

 

 

 

@Nice Guy Rich, that all sounds like a great result.  Well done to you, for seeing this through and being so positive  

[Nice Guy Rich]

@bass_dinger  Along those lines, yes.  I actually printed off yours and took them with me as a template.

 

We can put the rules in place but time will tell if people actually read them and, abide by them.