extenson cabinet

[rOB]

Hi everyone,

a newbie on basschat and looking for some advice on combo extensions. I play through an Ashdown eb12-180 combo and love the sound of it but the band I'm playing with are getting some bigger gigs now and I need some more volume. I hate relying on using house gear or borrowing from other bands. On the other hand I don't have the cash to spash out on a whole new rig all at once.

So, I'm thinking of getting a 2x10 extension cabinet for now when I've got extra cash buy a separate head and a 1x15 cabinet and ditching the combo. Trouble is I'm not sure how to match cabinets to heads/combos and am a bit confused by impedance calculations.

Does anyone have any suggestions for good quality, cheap, light 2x10s? And any advice on matching equipment?

thanks in advance, Rob

Edited December 7, 2008 by rOB

[bassmansky]

i would suggest the ashdown mag 2x10 cab to go with your combo.always some about on fleabay.then when you have enough cash buy a mag 300 head + 1x15 mag cab.both cabs are 8ohm so using them together with a head the load would be 4ohm thus getting max power from your amp.two 8ohm cabs =4ohm which is what most amps are today.if you only used one 8ohm cab with a 300w head you would get roughly half the power.your combo with extension cab will also produce max power.you will hopefully get a clearer reply than this one!

[thinman]

[quote name='bassmansky' post='348067' date='Dec 7 2008, 07:44 PM']i would suggest the ashdown mag 2x10 cab to go with your combo.always some about on fleabay.then when you have enough cash buy a mag 300 head + 1x15 mag cab.both cabs are 8ohm so using them together with a head the load would be 4ohm thus getting max power from your amp.two 8ohm cabs =4ohm which is what most amps are today.if you only used one 8ohm cab with a 300w head you would get roughly half the power.your combo with extension cab will also produce max power.you will hopefully get a clearer reply than this one![/quote]


The old debate is about to open up on mixing cabs with differing driver sizes (without crossovers)!

I'll be brave and attempt to precis the discussion:

1. The science says it's not good to mix driver sizes without using crossovers to split the frequencies they handle. The results of mixing drivers sizes are unpredictable.

2. The results may be satisfactory to but more by luck than judgement.

3. Cabs loaded with, say, 15" drivers, do not necessarily handle lower frequencies better than those with smaller, say 10" drivers. (This is my experience too having had a 15" Ashdown cab and now having a BFM Omni 10).

Take from that what you wish!

[Protium]

[quote name='thinman' post='348111' date='Dec 7 2008, 08:50 PM']The old debate is about to open up on mixing cabs with differing driver sizes (without crossovers)!

I'll be brave and attempt to precis the discussion:

1. The science says it's not good to mix driver sizes without using crossovers to split the frequencies they handle. The results of mixing drivers sizes are unpredictable.

2. The results may be satisfactory to but more by luck than judgement.

3. Cabs loaded with, say, 15" drivers, do not necessarily handle lower frequencies better than those with smaller, say 10" drivers. (This is my experience too having had a 15" Ashdown cab and now having a BFM Omni 10).

Take from that what you wish![/quote]

1. And if the frequency responses are extremely close? (quite likely with the majority of bass woofers)
2. Eh?
3. Agreed but your example is not a fair comparison considering the type of cabinets. If you (theoretically) swap the speakers and have an Ashdown single 10" cab and a BFM Omni 15, the 15" will have better low freq response.
The only way to fairly judge this is to use the same cabinet for both speakers, in which case the 15" will win 99% of the time.

[thinman]

[quote name='Protium' post='348146' date='Dec 7 2008, 09:38 PM']1. And if the frequency responses are extremely close? (quite likely with the majority of bass woofers)
2. Eh?
3. Agreed but your example is not a fair comparison considering the type of cabinets. If you (theoretically) swap the speakers and have an Ashdown single 10" cab and a BFM Omni 15, the 15" will have better low freq response.
The only way to fairly judge this is to use the same cabinet for both speakers, in which case the 15" will win 99% of the time.[/quote]

1. There's a point of view (one of many of course) that bass rigs should perhaps be closer in design to PA and maybe even hifi than, say, guitar cabs. Using a 10" driver next to a 15" driver to driven with the same signal can result in the overall result being far from that, e.g. they are likely to have different sensitivities at the same frequencies and different dispersion characteristics. There's more to a driver than frequency response.

2. I mean that the results some people get from using a mixture of cabs with differing driver sizes suits them, i.e. it produces a sound they are happy with which is fine. I'm not trying to tell anyone to not mix cabs - I'm just of the school of thought that if you like the result then that's great but that the apparently commonly accepted notion that the best mix is a 1 X 15" and a 2 X 10" is probably a lot more hit and miss (just sort of looks right maybe?) than following a slightly more scientific approach. Not everyone has been wowed by a a 1 x 15" and 2 x 10" stack or whatever.

3. I'm not talking about using the same cabinet and fitting it with differing driver sizes - a cabinet and driver choice(s) are inextricably linked - I'm referring to using a mixture of cabs in one stack without crossovers - e.g. one cab loaded with 10" drivers and another with 15" drivers. There are [u]some[/u] 10" loaded cabs out there with far better low end than [i]some[/i] 15" loaded cabs. I've got a pair of subs loaded with 10" drivers - their response is far deeper than some 15" loaded cabs because the enclosures are tuned that way. It's not an absolute given that a 15" loaded cab will have a better low end than one loaded with 10s.

[Protium]

[quote name='thinman' post='348169' date='Dec 7 2008, 10:10 PM']1. There's a point of view (one of many of course) that bass rigs should perhaps be closer in design to PA and maybe even hifi than, say, guitar cabs. Using a 10" driver next to a 15" driver to driven with the same signal can result in the overall result being far from that, e.g. they are likely to have different sensitivities at the same frequencies and different dispersion characteristics. There's more to a driver than frequency response.

2. I mean that the results some people get from using a mixture of cabs with differing driver sizes suits them, i.e. it produces a sound they are happy with which is fine. I'm not trying to tell anyone to not mix cabs - I'm just of the school of thought that if you like the result then that's great but that the apparently commonly accepted notion that the best mix is a 1 X 15" and a 2 X 10" is probably a lot more hit and miss (just sort of looks right maybe?) than following a slightly more scientific approach. Not everyone has been wowed by a a 1 x 15" and 2 x 10" stack or whatever.

3. I'm not talking about using the same cabinet and fitting it with differing driver sizes - a cabinet and driver choice(s) are inextricably linked - I'm referring to using a mixture of cabs in one stack without crossovers - e.g. one cab loaded with 10" drivers and another with 15" drivers. There are [u]some[/u] 10" loaded cabs out there with far better low end than [i]some[/i] 15" loaded cabs. I've got a pair of subs loaded with 10" drivers - their response is far deeper than some 15" loaded cabs because the enclosures are tuned that way. It's not an absolute given that a 15" loaded cab will have a better low end than one loaded with 10s.[/quote]

Fair enough. I don't use 15's because I prefer the punchier sound of 10's and a 410 cab provides more than enough bass for my liking. I used to own an Ashdown MAG115 and on it's own there was no volume or clarity.

[bass_ferret]

I am a big fan of having 2 cabs the same; having a sh*t sound from a 1x15 and 2x10 stack, IMO, and got a much better sound IMO with 2 2x10 cabs.

The volume of a cab is not the only thing that changes with frequency, phase can also be different between different cabs so at some frequencies it can cause phase cancellation, where one cab is pushing air and the other sucking, which means less volume at those frequencies.

[Mr. Foxen]

To original poster: Get a 2x10 or a 1x15, then later, get another of the same and a head. Also, there is a DI out on your head, so you can go the PA if it has subs for bit more volume and such out front. The Ashdown EB are fine combos, your best plan for the moment might be to score a milk crate and just have it a bit higher up so you can hear it better, and the DI into PA for out front. Whens its time to splash out on more hit, don't buy in a hurry, post up what you do, what you want and what you have to spend, thats when the techy stuff above is important. I think your pennies are best saved at the moment.

[Machines]

I used my old EB180-12 with my existing MAG210 and it was great. Never did experience issues with 'mismatched drivers' .

Here's a pic of it i've dug out..

[chris_b]

[quote name='Machines' post='348303' date='Dec 8 2008, 06:45 AM']....I used my old EB180-12 with my existing MAG210 and it was great. Never did experience issues with 'mismatched drivers'....[/quote]
Most of us don't!!

Hi Rob, you are on the right track. Audition a 2x10 extension cabinet or, if you prefer the sound, a 1x15. If it sounds good then it is good.

I assume that your combo is 8 ohm and the amp can go to 4 ohm, so don't worry about any technical "stuff" people throw at you, there are only two things you need to look out for, the extension cab must be 8 ohm (8 ohm + 8 ohm = 4 ohm) and that the sound works for you. Good luck.

[bassmansky]

[quote name='chris_b' post='348375' date='Dec 8 2008, 09:55 AM']Most of us don't!!

Hi Rob, you are on the right track. Audition a 2x10 extension cabinet or, if you prefer the sound, a 1x15. If it sounds good then it is good.

I assume that your combo is 8 ohm and the amp can go to 4 ohm, so don't worry about any technical "stuff" people throw at you, there are only two things you need to look out for, the extension cab must be 8 ohm (8 ohm + 8 ohm = 4 ohm) and that the sound works for you. Good luck.[/quote]
that is the reply i was hoping you would get!

[bass_ferret]

I was only offering an explanation. Jeez ! If it sounds good it is good, although standing a few feet in front of your rig you will probably only hear the top cab anyway. IMO.

[rOB]

Sorry for the late reply everyone, I've had major computer problems (i.e. it not working and taking ages to fix). Thanks to everyone for their advice, I appreciate it.

Played a pub gig on saturday using the EB combo, whacked it on an crate as recommended and put it through the PA from the DI socket, apparently sound out front was good so quite happy with that. So I think I'll hold off on buying an extension for now and carry on with that system. When I do need some extra volume I'll go and audition stuff as advised but thinking towards a 1x15.

On a separate note has anyone ever sound checked and been really happy with the monitor levels and then during the actual gig had the monitoring sound really different? Is this just a rubbish sound tech or something else? any thoughts?

thanks, Rob

[Delberthot]

It depends on a few things.

The sound will change with the number of people in the room and depending on how loud you are, your ears may be telling you that you're not as loud as you were earlier but its really you damaging your ears.

If you don't play at your usual level during a sound check then it will sound different during the gig but, yes, it can be caused by a bad sound engineer. I'd check all other options first before accusing him as he has the ability to make you sound sh*t if he wants to

[chris_b]

[quote name='rOB' post='385256' date='Jan 19 2009, 07:01 PM']....On a separate note has anyone ever sound checked and been really happy with the monitor levels and then during the actual gig had the monitoring sound really different? Is this just a rubbish sound tech or something else? any thoughts?....[/quote]
When you sound check you should be playing at gig levels. Many people don't. They sound check at half pace and then up the energy level and volume on the gig. Also a lot of FOH engineers "twiddle" during the show and that can screw up the sound.

[EBS_freak]

Good old Sheldon Marquee