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Al Krow

Bugera "2000W" with 3x12AX7 valve pre (this should peak your interest)

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@Al Krow

The volume knob is notched and each click provides an increase in loudness. In my opinion it's smooth. My Quilter is very similar in that regard and my Ashdown seems to give you more earlier in the stage especially when the compressor is engaged.  

The Mosfet is definitely the more modern sounding of the two heads. The Tube has more of a low-mid presence with controls set flat on each in my opinion. I don't have much experience with full blown tube amps. The T does offer more warmth than the M but there wasn't a night & day difference to my ears with the gear that I had during the period when both were under my roof. The cabs that I had then all were a little more vintage sounding. They were a pair of old Genz Benz 112s which I still own and two pairs of Ashdown  cabs without tweeters (Mi 10 & ABM Mini 408 Neo). The T isn't wild & woolly and the M isn't sterile. They're each just nice clean sounding amps but again, I do feel that T is warmer. 

My experience with compressors is also not very extensive. I've owned a couple of quality pedals that didn't get used much. I'm sure that there are better compressors but with the limited amount of usage that I have given the unit on the Veyron, I can't say that I've encountered anything that turned me off. Here's a video of the Veyron M being played by the same guy in the previous video that I posted. He's got the Ultra High & Ultra Low engaged which sort of sccops the sound....

 

Edited by ebozzz
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My amps, Veyron included, all have more than enough volume for my needs. I stopped worrying about how many watts it had when I saw how it performed.

cave.jpg

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Nice review thanks! And I'm sure you meant the M "isn't" sterile rather than "is" :)

You're definitely warming me (and I suspect a lot of others!) to the T. 

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1 minute ago, Al Krow said:

You're definitely warming me (and I suspect a lot of others!) to the T. 

They're both nice amps. It's a shame that so many are overlooking them due to the Behringer relationship. Mine is over three years old and still killing it!

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16 minutes ago, ebozzz said:

@Al Krow

The volume knob is notched and each click provides an increase in loudness. In my opinion it's smooth. My Quilter is very similar in that regard and my Ashdown seems to give you more earlier in the stage especially when the compressor is engaged.  

The Mosfet is definitely the more modern sounding of the two heads. The Tube has more of a low-mid presence with controls set flat on each in my opinion. I don't have much experience with full blown tube amps. The T does offer more warmth than the M but there wasn't a night & day difference to my ears with the gear that I had during the period when both were under my roof. The cabs that I had then all were a little more vintage sounding. They were a pair of old Genz Benz 112s which I still own and two pairs of Ashdown  cabs without tweeters (Mi 10 & ABM Mini 408 Neo). The T isn't wild & woolly and the M is sterile. They're each just nice clean sounding amps but again, I do feel that T is warmer. 

My experience with compressors is also not very extensive. I've owned a couple of quality pedals that didn't get used much. I'm sure that there are better compressors but with the limited amount of usage that I have given the unit on the Veyron, I can't say that I've encountered anything that turned me off. Here's a video of the Veyron M being played by the same guy in the previous video that I posted. He's got the Ultra High & Ultra Low engaged which sort of sccops the sound....

 

Great information there ebozzz , I’ve been looking at these for a while  ,thanks 👍

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12 hours ago, ebozzz said:

My amps, Veyron included, all have more than enough volume for my needs. I stopped worrying about how many watts it had when I saw how it performed.

cave.jpg

Me too there seems to be plenty of volume, more than I will ever need.

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36 minutes ago, bloodandtearsuk said:

due in stock at Thomann before xmas.

3 yr warranty as standard with Thomann (@ no extra cost) + 30 day return... for a couple quid less than G4M and available in a week rather than 3 mths!  :/  :)  

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Let's all buy cheaply made knock-offs only to ensure R&D goes to an absolute minimum and every amp and pedal sounds the same (yes I am being sarcastic here).....

I have owned the Streamliner, gorgeous pre (not so gorgeous D class power amp so I used a QSC power amp). This has taken more than a page out of the STM book, using the fact that Fender had just bought and was killing Genz Benz.

 

 

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9 hours ago, HazBeen said:

Let's all buy cheaply made knock-offs only to ensure R&D goes to an absolute minimum and every amp and pedal sounds the same (yes I am being sarcastic here).....

I have owned the Streamliner, gorgeous pre (not so gorgeous D class power amp so I used a QSC power amp). This has taken more than a page out of the STM book, using the fact that Fender had just bought and was killing Genz Benz.

 

 

 

Other than the fact that there is a resemblance in the appearance, are you really positive that the Veyrons are absolutely knock offs? I do know that the power section is Bugera's own and not some off the shelf option.... 

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The T has been quite widely identified as a heavily influenced by and tonally similar ”tribute”  of the Streamliner.  The M is very different in character. They are undeniably very good value for money.

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12 minutes ago, HazBeen said:

The T has been quite widely identified as a heavily influenced by and tonally similar ”tribute”  of the Streamliner.  The M is very different in character. They are undeniably very good value for money.

Lots of amp manufacturers shoot for tones that are similar to other products. Even the Streamliner likely got it's inspiration from someplace else. I guess that I was mainly thinking about the engineering. If we opened up a Veyron T and a Streamliner, would there be a lot of similarities internally? I've never seen the inside of a Streamliner....

Edited by ebozzz
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10 hours ago, HazBeen said:

The T has been quite widely identified as a heavily influenced by and tonally similar ”tribute”  of the Streamliner.  The M is very different in character. They are undeniably very good value for money.

Very few developments in anything are genuinely innovative and entirely fresh. Most things build on / have been influenced by what has gone before and either do them better or for a better price which makes them accessible to a wider audience. It's the nature of "progress."

Out of interest would you ever considering playing a pre 2015 Sandberg (Fender body shape clone) or a Warwick (heavily influenced by Spector design)?

9 hours ago, ebozzz said:

Lots of amp manufacturers shoot for tones that are similar to other products. Even the Streamliner likely got it's inspiration from someplace else. I guess that I was mainly thinking about the engineering. If we opened up a Veyron T and a Streamliner, would there be a lot of similarities internally? I've never seen the inside of a Streamliner....

+1 ^^

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17 hours ago, ebozzz said:

Lots of amp manufacturers shoot for tones that are similar to other products. Even the Streamliner likely got it's inspiration from someplace else. I guess that I was mainly thinking about the engineering. If we opened up a Veyron T and a Streamliner, would there be a lot of similarities internally? I've never seen the inside of a Streamliner....

I do recall seeing a gut shot comparison somewhere when the T came out, certainly similar architecture but not the exact same so in that sense your comments are absolutely fair.

7 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Very few developments in anything are genuinely innovative and entirely fresh. Most things build on / have been influenced by what has gone before and either do them better or for a better price which makes them accessible to a wider audience. It's the nature of "progress."

Out of interest would you ever considering playing a pre 2015 Sandberg (Fender body shape clone) or a Warwick (heavily influenced by Spector design)?

+1 ^^

I have actually owned both a pre 15 Sandberg and several Wicks, including Streamers. The comparison is not exactly on par as you cannot call a Berg or Wick better, or better priced than a Fender perse, but I see your angle. 

The bottomline point I guess I was trying to make is that we should also be happy and willing to buy “premium” or “boutique” as that is where the innovation happens. And we should welcome progress in design and approach. If that makes sense...

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4 hours ago, HazBeen said:

The bottomline point I guess I was trying to make is that we should also be happy and willing to buy “premium” or “boutique” as that is where the innovation happens. And we should welcome progress in design and approach. If that makes sense...

There is only one area where there is significant innovation currently: pedals. 

I'd happily blind test my Yammy BB or my Ibby SR against P or J basses (respectively) and IMO they will easily hold their own against basses costing 5 times as much. 

So no, I'm not agreeing that we should be generally prepared to pay premium or boutique prices. The answer is some things are worth paying the extra for. Many things are not. 

Besides not everyone can afford to throw money at posh gear. 

Edited by Al Krow

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1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

There is only one area where there is significant innovation currently: pedals. 

I'd happily blind test my Yammy BB or my Ibby SR against P or J basses (respectively) and IMO they will easily hold their own against basses costing 5 times as much. 

So no, I'm not agreeing that we should be generally prepared to pay premium or boutique prices. The answer is some things are worth paying the extra for. Many things are not. 

Besides not everyone can afford to throw money at posh gear. 

I think we can settle on this then: we shouldn’t exclude either. And we can certainly agree that a good bass player on cheaper gear will bet more out of his gear than a novice on hi-end stuff. Clearly it is what you do with it that is most important.

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10 hours ago, HazBeen said:

I do recall seeing a gut shot comparison somewhere when the T came out, certainly similar architecture but not the exact same so in that sense your comments are absolutely fair.

I'd love to see the comparison. Uli Behringer admitted that they went after a similar appearance to the Streamliner. 

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Similar appearance? Other than the comp, it's pretty much identical in concept, format and layout to the Streamliner, even down to the 220/600/2.5 mid frequencies. Pfffft.

It's definitely a cheap version of the Streamliner, which is a great amp, and if it's half as good at a third of the (original) price, then it'll be worth it.

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Isn't the key question whether it's using the same power amp module as the Streamliner?

That is heart of any amp.

(And the preamp and EQ its soul). 

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14 minutes ago, Muzz said:

We've already heard it isn't. For better or worse.

Exactly. It's not the same amp then is my point. 

Appearances aren't everything. 

Maybe a good analogy would be Squier?

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If appearances weren't everything then they might've designed something different to the Streamliner, but they didn't. They made an amp with the same (nearly) layout and same concept and whoops, it looks the same.

A better analogy from the same company would be a BDI21. I've got one of them, and it does the job. At about a quarter of the price of a Sansamp. Interestingly, it doesn't look the same. Perhaps they were a bit more worried about Tech21 knocking on their door than the soon-to-be-defunct GB...

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2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Isn't the key question whether it's using the same power amp module as the Streamliner?

That is heart of any amp.

(And the preamp and EQ its soul). 

just at a technical level probably not, it may be the least important aspect in terms of the sound the amp makes. Any shaping of the sound will be done in the pre amp stage and the ultimate way the amp deals with power demands will depend largely upon the design of the power supply. Most modern amps can give plenty of power and at minimal distortion and the power amp stage will be designed to be flat response within the audible hearing range. 

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