BigRedX Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 My recollection is that the popped up on Basschat almost entirely in order to promote his recordings and BGM column. Now there's nothing wrong with a bit a self-promotion, but if you are going to put yourself about in a public arena, you also need to be able to deal with the fact the fact that others might not agree with what you say and also that they may not like your music either. Also on a forum there is an expectation, rightly or wrongly, that members should properly take part in discussions in order to be taken seriously and accepted. I've also met Mr Gwizdala in person and seen him play, and he's an interesting and innovative bass player (at least when he isn't doing his impersonation of a second-rate jazz guitarist), but I've also heard him make some fairly derogatory comments about some of his more mundane session work, which if I'm not mistaken is what pays his bills and allows him to pursue his more esoteric musical activities. That IMO is not cool. If you need to take on work that you feel is beneath you in order to be able to do the work that you really want, there's nothing wrong with that, but don't bitch about it in public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1484130683' post='3212844'] From Janek, through Guy Pratt and Vail Johnson down to JTUK. [/quote] I was wondering the other day what had happened to JTUK. I thought maybe he was on a Skiing holiday? What happened there, then? Janek is a cool person, certainly a character and indeed an excellent musician (In my opinion of course). I have only ever heard good things about him from fellow musicians and friends, and if I have been in the vicinity of him playing and talking, he always comes across as a charming fellow. When people blow up, it can sometimes say as much about the people pushing the buttons as it does the Imploder. Sean (BBC) was intelligent, very funny and he certainly sharpened his Axe in the morning, ready for business. But for me, like any Twelve bar with a tedious round and round solo at the end..... You need a Coda and Fine. He didn't have one, just a train crash. Which in the end, didn't groove well with the Basschat Conductor and his section leaders. Shame I suppose, he did make me laugh at times (but to be honest, grimace on other occasions). Edited January 11, 2017 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interpol52 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1484009883' post='3211989'] He used to post here. . . until the knuckle draggers chased him away. [/quote] I hold my hand up to having written some out of order posts in the past. Not in the context of Janek though. I regret it and it won't happen again. I have apologised directly where needed. Edited January 11, 2017 by interpol52 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interpol52 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 On the topic of Janek, I have always liked what I have seen if him online. A lot of his lessons go way over my head (he talks so fast!) but I have picked up a few things from him. A recent VLOG showed him reflecting on his recent divorce. It was very candid and my respect for him grew, I also drew inspiration from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 [quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1484128404' post='3212827'] It seems like only yesterday some guy called Peter Balzary from a Chilean band tried to promote his lurid celebrity-endorsed Basses on here. Luckily he was chased off with a flea in his ear.... [/quote] Michael's brother was here? cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 As we are talking about people baiting: there must be about 4 posts on here and in off topic where someone has posed a question/ predicament and people have put their point of view/suggestions only for it to turn into an insulting match between 'two stags' who are not the OP and who verbally feel it's cool to stare each other down. Totally pointless and so negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1484136062' post='3212894'] Michael's brother was here? cool [/quote] Michael Peter. I used to call him Mick... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1484130683' post='3212844'] "Knuckle draggers" might be a little harsh on some, maybe not on others, but saying, "They (Janek etc) bought it on themselves", isn't good enough. When people are baited and goaded it is unnecessary and looks bad on Basschat. From Janek, through Guy Pratt and Vail Johnson down to JTUK. At the end of the day the whole forum looses. It is unpleasant to experience and unpleasant to watch. The Mods should crack down, but they don't. It is what it is, but more respect is needed for different ideas, approaches and opinions. [/quote] Respect should be given/expected regardless of who you are in the bass world. BC is not perfect, but it's generally pretty decent in that respect compared to other fora I've visited over the years. One thing that you can notice here, and I'm not sure how much of it is due to its largely British membership, is that BC is not swayed easily by big names. If you come around here with an attitude, you tend to get attitude back no matter who you are. That is not a bad thing necessarily. But there is a danger (read below). I missed Janek's episode at the time and only found out afterwards. It is a shame, but it did look to me like his demeanour was slightly off. Maybe he was having a bad couple of days, we've all been there... but you can't simply say BC chased him away as if 'famous' people were not welcome here. Neil Murray has absolutely no trouble here, I wonder why... I missed Guy Pratt's episode entirely. I didn't even read it afterwards. It's a shame, as I really rate him and find him pretty entertaining too... but I can't comment on this event. I was in the first row for for Vail Johnson's episode. His attitude, again, triggered it all. I had the fortune to PM with him afterwards (I was one of his critics) and I ended up sad about the whole thing because on a PM level he seemed pretty cool and made me realise that some people, sometimes, just have a different more direct approach to discussion. It seems to me that BC is, by comparison to other fora, relatively easy going and mild-mannered (excluding the odd OT thread!). Maybe this make a more direct/abrupt approach stand out, and it seems people object to that. The thing is that if the same discussion, in the same tone, happened face to face, it would probably be ok. That's what I thought of Vail's thing. Writing here, we miss a lot of cues: tone of voice, body language... and someone coming here for the first time, especially if they have experience of other internet fora, may not realise that things are slightly different here. Does anybody here remember Inti? He wasn't anybody famous, as far as anybody here knows... remember his attitude? He was chased away because of it, not because BC could not deal with top-rate bass players. It just seems that BC has low tolerance towards arrogance and your name means little if your attitude is off. Unfortunately, an energetic and passionately direct approach to discussion can sometimes be perceived as arrogant when in written form. Which brings me to the part about respect. It would be good for most of us (some are already pretty cool) to think about what we post before we post, especially if reacting to somebody's comments that we disagree with. Written communication is prone to misunderstandings. Still... low tolerance towards arrogance is not necessarily a terrible thing even if we end up missing out a bit. I'd prefer that the reaction towards arrogant comments were just ignoring them instead of bickering... so there's room for improvement, but I don't think we can accuse BC of chasing anybody away, as it definitely takes two to tango. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blamelouis Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Any of the big name players that have appeared on here have been treated like shitt by people who are nowhere near their level of musicianship or will likely ever be. I remember Hadrien Feraud being abused here which i couldnt understand then or now. Mutual respect or stay away from a thread if somebody posts about Led Zep being the best thing since sliced bread instead of wailing in shouting the odds i normally laugh and move on to another thread. Inflammatory comments and abusive behaviour is that how we want basschat regarded? Maybe im in the minority if so i'll happily move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 [quote name='blamelouis' timestamp='1484140368' post='3212953'] Any of the big name players that have appeared on here have been treated like shitt by people who are nowhere near their level of musicianship or will likely ever be. [/quote] Your level of musicianship is irrelevant when it comes to whether you're treated with respect or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Disagree there I think a small minority have already decided on the attitude to adopt as soon as someone famous / much talent decides to post here Of the famous that have been chased off by the baiters, were they all arrogant then ? I doubt it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 [quote name='fleabag' timestamp='1484221783' post='3213630'] Disagree there I think a small minority have already decided on the attitude to adopt as soon as someone famous / much talent decides to post here Of the famous that have been chased off by the baiters, were they all arrogant then ? I doubt it [/quote] I can only go by the exchanges I read first hand... there was definitely an attitude (or at least perceived attitude, since with Vail Johnson I later realised that it just came across as arrogant in writing, but it wasn't his intention and in face to face communication it would have been clearer). I've seen arrogant attitudes by non-famous similarly chased away (search for "Inti", although he had the habit of deleting a large number of his posts when he got upset, which was most of the time). Neil Murray, for instance, posted here a few times. He comes across as a very easy going kind of guy, and I never saw anybody chase him away. There are others but that's the first one that comes to mind. I just see no evidence to claim that there's a general attitude on BC picking on 'big' players. It would be a very idiotic thing to do (picking on those players, just because). If there's one thing that we all share here is a passion for bass stuff. Those are the guys who are where they are because they're good at it and have experiences that most of us cannot even imagine. It would make no sense to chase them away. Why do you suggest it has happened with a handful of people? Jealousy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasted Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 [quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1484073002' post='3212475'] Needs a poll - who would we sooner have back on BC - Gwizimon or BigBeefChief? No "none of the above" option. [/quote] There's only one viable option there :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1484227706' post='3213711'] I just see no evidence to claim that there's a general attitude on BC picking on 'big' players. [/quote] Neither do i. I mentioned a minority, which really isnt ' general ' As someone mentioned , misunderstandings are rife on forums where little emotion can be determined from a bit of text on a screen. I'm not saying thats always the case. Some posts by the arrogant are exactly that with obvious meaning, but many more times i suspect that the people jump on someone far too quick because they read what they want to read, with little thought about holding back and maybe interpreting things in a different way, or simply asking if thats what the poster meant Luckily, that is a minority. There's no question that this is general BC behaviour, far from it. There's many many good folk here Edited January 12, 2017 by fleabag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 [quote name='fleabag' timestamp='1484228958' post='3213741'] Neither do i. I mentioned a minority, which really isnt ' general ' As someone mentioned , misunderstandings are rife on forums where little emotion can be determined from a bit of text on a screen. I'm not saying thats always the case. Some posts by the arrogant are exactly that with obvious meaning, but many more times i suspect that the people jump on someone far too quick because they read what they want to read, with little thought about holding back and maybe interpreting things in a different way, or simply asking if thats what the poster meant Luckily, that is a minority. There's no question that this is general BC behaviour, far from it. There's many many good folk here [/quote] very true, very true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1484137707' post='3212921'] Respect should be given/expected regardless of who you are in the bass world. BC is not perfect, but it's generally pretty decent in that respect compared to other fora I've visited over the years. One thing that you can notice here, and I'm not sure how much of it is due to its largely British membership, is that BC is not swayed easily by big names. If you come around here with an attitude, you tend to get attitude back no matter who you are. That is not a bad thing necessarily. But there is a danger (read below). I missed Janek's episode at the time and only found out afterwards. It is a shame, but it did look to me like his demeanour was slightly off. Maybe he was having a bad couple of days, we've all been there... but you can't simply say BC chased him away as if 'famous' people were not welcome here. Neil Murray has absolutely no trouble here, I wonder why... I missed Guy Pratt's episode entirely. I didn't even read it afterwards. It's a shame, as I really rate him and find him pretty entertaining too... but I can't comment on this event. I was in the first row for for Vail Johnson's episode. His attitude, again, triggered it all. I had the fortune to PM with him afterwards (I was one of his critics) and I ended up sad about the whole thing because on a PM level he seemed pretty cool and made me realise that some people, sometimes, just have a different more direct approach to discussion. It seems to me that BC is, by comparison to other fora, relatively easy going and mild-mannered (excluding the odd OT thread!). Maybe this make a more direct/abrupt approach stand out, and it seems people object to that. The thing is that if the same discussion, in the same tone, happened face to face, it would probably be ok. That's what I thought of Vail's thing. Writing here, we miss a lot of cues: tone of voice, body language... and someone coming here for the first time, especially if they have experience of other internet fora, may not realise that things are slightly different here. Does anybody here remember Inti? He wasn't anybody famous, as far as anybody here knows... remember his attitude? He was chased away because of it, not because BC could not deal with top-rate bass players. It just seems that BC has low tolerance towards arrogance and your name means little if your attitude is off. Unfortunately, an energetic and passionately direct approach to discussion can sometimes be perceived as arrogant when in written form. Which brings me to the part about respect. It would be good for most of us (some are already pretty cool) to think about what we post before we post, especially if reacting to somebody's comments that we disagree with. Written communication is prone to misunderstandings. Still... low tolerance towards arrogance is not necessarily a terrible thing even if we end up missing out a bit. I'd prefer that the reaction towards arrogant comments were just ignoring them instead of bickering... so there's room for improvement, but I don't think we can accuse BC of chasing anybody away, as it definitely takes two to tango. [/quote] I partially agree with this. Attitude and persona certainly do not mean anything on basschat (and should be challenged if appropriate or if someone disagrees, present your counter argument in a sensible way that can be read by other parties as part of a discussion, not a heated argument). However, there is a LOT of negativity here when it comes to an individual's [u][b]experience[/b][/u]. People will try to use their wealth of experience (it may be the inner workings of music retail, what it's like behind-the-scenes playing arenas with a 'name' band or how product endorsements work etc) and other people who have little or no experience of this, will wade in with their opposing opinions on the matter and think what they are saying can be taken as fact just because they shout loudest (i.e. I have a mate who has an endorsement deal and you just get everything for free! - This doesn't mean EVERY deal has the same terms) I think that is one of the greatest pitfalls of this forum. I joined when I was fairly inexperienced and as I've gained experience away from this forum, I tend to spend less time on it, because i find a LOT of opinions that are simply incorrect get posted on here and when the correct answer is given or someone tries to say 'that's not actually how it works' they just get shouted down. I also have one or two students who also joined basschat and will come to lessons saying "i heard/saw this on basschat..." and i have to remind them that it's a forum populated by passionate, opinionated people and that it's not an academic resource, therefore what is said should be taken with a pinch of salt at times. I also tell them to spend less time online and more time practicing This frustration probably applies to most members and scares some away (name player or not). It's a shame really, because I've watched all of Janek's blogs and he would be a great addition to the forum. He could talk for hours just about his experience will all his pedals, let alone the travelling and playing experiences he has had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 [quote name='skej21' timestamp='1484409275' post='3215286'] I partially agree with this. Attitude and persona certainly do not mean anything on basschat (and should be challenged if appropriate or if someone disagrees, present your counter argument in a sensible way that can be read by other parties as part of a discussion, not a heated argument). However, there is a LOT of negativity here when it comes to an individual's [u][b]experience[/b][/u]. People will try to use their wealth of experience (it may be the inner workings of music retail, what it's like behind-the-scenes playing arenas with a 'name' band or how product endorsements work etc) and other people who have little or no experience of this, will wade in with their opposing opinions on the matter and think what they are saying can be taken as fact just because they shout loudest (i.e. I have a mate who has an endorsement deal and you just get everything for free! - This doesn't mean EVERY deal has the same terms) I think that is one of the greatest pitfalls of this forum. I joined when I was fairly inexperienced and as I've gained experience away from this forum, I tend to spend less time on it, because i find a LOT of opinions that are simply incorrect get posted on here and when the correct answer is given or someone tries to say 'that's not actually how it works' they just get shouted down. I also have one or two students who also joined basschat and will come to lessons saying "i heard/saw this on basschat..." and i have to remind them that it's a forum populated by passionate, opinionated people and that it's not an academic resource, therefore what is said should be taken with a pinch of salt at times. I also tell them to spend less time online and more time practicing This frustration probably applies to most members and scares some away (name player or not). It's a shame really, because I've watched all of Janek's blogs and he would be a great addition to the forum. He could talk for hours just about his experience will all his pedals, let alone the travelling and playing experiences he has had. [/quote] and that is true as well... Some people definitely know a little less than they think they know and can be very vocal in their opinions. No open forum on internet is ideal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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