Gut strings your views

[thebigyin]

Hi Folks new to the world of Double Bass so interested to hear folks views on Gut Strings i have been listening to the likes of Bill Evans Trio and Oscar Peterson ect obviously Bassists like Scott Lafaro, Chuck Isreals, Eddie Gomez, Ray Brown and Sam Jones feature a lot on the late 50's and 60's recordings and it was listening to these Bassists that i wanted to learn Upright Bass i presume that a lot of these earlier recordings were recorded using Gut Strings i maybe wrong just interested to know and hear your views ect cheers Bob

[SubsonicSimpleton]

I would love a gut strung DB, but bottled out on making that string choice on the basis that it would be adding an extra learning curve(maintenance, coping with humidity/temparature swings on gigs etc) on top of getting to grips with the instrument. In the end I went with spirocores to give myself the option of using a mag pickup, but there are some pretty good sounding artificial gut substitute strings that might get you close soundwise without the expense or maintenance hassles of natural gut.

I'm tempted to try these at some point
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwzcihp0gZM[/media]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbahfFnp-O8[/media]

Edited August 22, 2016 by SubsonicSimpleton

[invicta59]

I think the thing to remember with gut strings is that, back in the day they were the cheapest option. Steel strings were available from the mid 50's but were expensive in comparison. Today, anything non-synthetic is expensive

Personally, having played all manner of strings over the years, the last string I would ever put on my bass would be a gut string. I find them to be ludicrously expensive, difficult to keep in tune (I've spent a night having to retune after EVERY song, which gets kinda boring after an hour), fragile and no sustain (at least, not enough for me). Horses for courses with this. The only way you'll know if you like them is to try some.

Edited August 22, 2016 by invicta59

[Marc S]

Though I've not actually played gut strings myself, I've heard others complain about maintenance, having to re-tune frequently etc. I use Spirocore Weichs myself, and quite like them. However, on my first DB, I fitted a set of Innovation Silver Slaps, and now I find myself wanting to play with these strings again... They are nylon type material, or something very similar. And I've heard people describe them as similar to gut strings in some ways - but without so much hassle...

Innovation Silver and Gold slaps are certainly lower tension than steel strings (Weich's are quite low tension for steel strings, as they have a synthetic core). I'm hankering after using Innovations again, as I want to try a bit more slap style playing, but find the Spirocores are tougher on my fingers. I've got a piezzo pickup, and a mic pickup, so I'm not worried about metal strings. But if you have a magnetic pickup, the Innovation strings won't work (though someone previously mentioned wrapping that small part of the string in foil, to make the mag pickup work....

Unlike Bass Guitar, DB is a whole can of worms regarding strings & string types - it all seems a bit daunting at first
Also - this is important to note, as you may not be aware - when changing strings on a DB, place the bass on its' back, and change one at a time - or the soundpost will fall over... you don't want that!

Good luck

Edited August 22, 2016 by Marc S

[Cat Burrito]

I use Gut-a-like as they are more stable for tuning. I can't imagine ever using steel again.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/gutalike_vintage_double_bass_strings.htm

[thebigyin]

[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1471865354' post='3116440']
I would love a gut strung DB, but bottled out on making that string choice on the basis that it would be adding an extra learning curve(maintenance, coping with humidity/temparature swings on gigs etc) on top of getting to grips with the instrument. In the end I went with spirocores to give myself the option of using a mag pickup, but there are some pretty good sounding artificial gut substitute strings that might get you close soundwise without the expense or maintenance hassles of natural gut.

I'm tempted to try these at some point
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwzcihp0gZM[/media]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbahfFnp-O8[/media]
[/quote]
Thanks someone else recommended Spirocore strings

[thebigyin]

[quote name='invicta59' timestamp='1471875205' post='3116591']
I think the thing to remember with gut strings is that, back in the day they were the cheapest option. Steel strings were available from the mid 50's but were expensive in comparison. Today, anything non-synthetic is expensive

Personally, having played all manner of strings over the years, the last string I would ever put on my bass would be a gut string. I find them to be ludicrously expensive, difficult to keep in tune (I've spent a night having to retune after EVERY song, which gets kinda boring after an hour), fragile and no sustain (at least, not enough for me). Horses for courses with this. The only way you'll know if you like them is to try some.
[/quote]
Thanks i think i will avoid to be honest a lot of negative comments still got an awful lot to learn in the Double Bass world cheers Bob

[thebigyin]

[quote name='Marc S' timestamp='1471880811' post='3116661']
Though I've not actually played gut strings myself, I've heard others complain about maintenance, having to re-tune frequently etc. I use Spirocore Weichs myself, and quite like them. However, on my first DB, I fitted a set of Innovation Silver Slaps, and now I find myself wanting to play with these strings again... They are nylon type material, or something very similar. And I've heard people describe them as similar to gut strings in some ways - but without so much hassle...

Innovation Silver and Gold slaps are certainly lower tension than steel strings (Weich's are quite low tension for steel strings, as they have a synthetic core). I'm hankering after using Innovations again, as I want to try a bit more slap style playing, but find the Spirocores are tougher on my fingers. I've got a piezzo pickup, and a mic pickup, so I'm not worried about metal strings. But if you have a magnetic pickup, the Innovation strings won't work (though someone previously mentioned wrapping that small part of the string in foil, to make the mag pickup work....

Unlike Bass Guitar, DB is a whole can of worms regarding strings & string types - it all seems a bit daunting at first
Also - this is important to note, as you may not be aware - when changing strings on a DB, place the bass on its' back, and change one at a time - or the soundpost will fall over... you don't want that!

Good luck
[/quote]
Thanks Marc i like the sound of the innovation strings you describe i will check some youtube clips ect....i have a lot to learn about the Double Bass i've had it less than a week but hopefully find my way soon just trying to get as much information as i can cheers Bob

[thebigyin]

[quote name='Burrito' timestamp='1471881463' post='3116668']
I use Gut-a-like as they are more stable for tuning. I can't imagine ever using steel again.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/gutalike_vintage_double_bass_strings.htm
[/quote]
Thanks Burrito i will check your link out cheers Bob

[Beedster]

Gut strings on DB is a similar issue to all-tube bass amps: plenty of things get close, plenty of things are cheaper, and plenty of things are less hassle, but nothing quite does the job. The pure joy of those whispy, almost fragile tones up the board on the one hand and powerful rootsy thumps on the other is worth all the grief. I'll never go back to steels or synthetics.

[zbd1960]

I don't play DB (yet) but I do play two instruments that use gut strings - the tenor and bass viola da gamba, the large bass version of which, the violone, is the ancestor of (viol shaped) DBs. You have to use gut strings on viols as they cannot take the tension of metal strings.

There are several issues with gut strings. The sound is good and has a silvery sound which blends very well and which you do not get with metal strings. The key point is that as a natural fibre, it breathes - it absorbs and releases water vapour as the humidity changes. During this time, the mass of the string is changing, which means the tuning is changing. Once equilibrium has been reached, they stabilise. Gut strings are prone to going 'false' more so than metal strings over time. This means that the same fret on adjacent strings may not be in tune with each other.

Cost wise, for my bass viol, which is cello sized, strings are cheaper than cello strings - about £6 for the top D and about £50 for the bottom D (it has 6 strings), whereas a set of decent modern cello strings is about £140 - £240 (my bottom C string cost £105). I have no doubt that it is worse for DB players given the extra string size.

Edited August 22, 2016 by zbd1960

[thebigyin]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1471905629' post='3116948']
Gut strings on DB is a similar issue to all-tube bass amps: plenty of things get close, plenty of things are cheaper, and plenty of things are less hassle, but nothing quite does the job. The pure joy of those whispy, almost fragile tones up the board on the one hand and powerful rootsy thumps on the other is worth all the grief. I'll never go back to steels or synthetics.
[/quote]
Confused lol....read so many bad reports then yours. Thanks beedster food for thought

[thebigyin]

[quote name='zbd1960' timestamp='1471907667' post='3116959']
I don't play DB (yet) but I do play two instruments that use gut strings - the tenor and bass viola da gamba, the large bass version of which, the violone, is the ancestor of (viol shaped) DBs. You have to use gut strings on viols as they cannot take the tension of metal strings.

There are several issues with gut strings. The sound is good and has a silvery sound which blends very well and which you do not get with metal strings. The key point is that as a natural fibre, it breathes - it absorbs and releases water vapour as the humidity changes. During this time, the mass of the string is changing, which means the tuning is changing. Once equilibrium has been reached, they stabilise. Gut strings are prone to going 'false' more so than metal strings over time. This means that the same fret on adjacent strings may not be in tune with each other.

Cost wise, for my bass viol, which is cello sized, strings are cheaper than cello strings - about £6 for the top D and about £50 for the bottom D (it has 6 strings), whereas a set of decent modern cello strings is about £140 - £240 (my bottom C string cost £105). I have no doubt that it is worse for DB players given the extra string size.
[/quote]
Thankyou for your reply i have a lot of things to consider

[Marc S]

[quote name='Burrito' timestamp='1471881463' post='3116668']
I use Gut-a-like as they are more stable for tuning. I can't imagine ever using steel again.

[url="https://www.thomann.de/gb/gutalike_vintage_double_bass_strings.htm"]https://www.thomann....ass_strings.htm[/url]
[/quote]

Thanks for that info Burrito,
Due to having read this thread, and being inspired to experiment a bit more, I have ordered a set of "Weed Whackers" They are fairly cheap on ebay (cheapest DB strings I've seen!), but the seller is in the US - so they'll take some time to reach me

[Beedster]

[quote name='Marc S' timestamp='1471955809' post='3117216']
Thanks for that info Burrito,
Due to having read this thread, and being inspired to experiment a bit more, I have ordered a set of "Weed Whackers" They are fairly cheap on ebay (cheapest DB strings I've seen!), but the seller is in the US - so they'll take some time to reach me
[/quote]

You could have had mine gratis Marc, played them for about 20 minutes and have never hated a set of strings more

[Burg]

I've got n unused set of weed whackers as well. Couldn't be bothered filing the bridge to fit them. The G sounded nice though when I put that on though.

[The Jaywalker]

.

Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='The Jaywalker' timestamp='1472050092' post='3118021'] As food for thought: how many bassists from back in the gut days actually stayed with gut strings when other options became available? [/quote]

Didn't Mingus stick with gut, at least until his very last couple of years when he just did whatever was necessary to keep playing? I guess Charlie Haden did too, though I don't know how different his Golden Spirals were from plain gut and he still had steels on the bottom. But otherwise, not many.
I tried a plain gut G and D very briefly. I could have got used to the G, but the D was just to flubby and inharmonic on my bass. If I had the space and cash for two basses I might think about some sort of mixed gut set on the second one, but as it is I can't really see myself moving away from steel.

[thebigyin]

[quote name='The Jaywalker' timestamp='1472050092' post='3118021']
Tried guts - hated them. I've used Velvet Garbo, Anima and Blue at various points before going back to spiros. I think all bassists go through this as a natural phase. It's a lot of fun and a learning experience. If anyone wants an old-school sound then I would recommend Velvet Anima or Super-Sensitive (the expensive ones); both do the job really well.
As food for thought: how many bassists from back in the gut days actually stayed with gut strings when other options became available?
[/quote]
Thankyou for your reply some good points cheers Bob

[thebigyin]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1472052903' post='3118048']


Didn't Mingus stick with gut, at least until his very last couple of years when he just did whatever was necessary to keep playing? I guess Charlie Haden did too, though I don't know how different his Golden Spirals were from plain gut and he still had steels on the bottom. But otherwise, not many.
I tried a plain gut G and D very briefly. I could have got used to the G, but the D was just to flubby and inharmonic on my bass. If I had the space and cash for two basses I might think about some sort of mixed gut set on the second one, but as it is I can't really see myself moving away from steel.
[/quote]
Cheers a lot of interesting points and opinions have come up on my thread cheers Bob

[mtroun]

Gut strings are lovely, but expensive. Try them on someone else's bass. The main reason I like them is the lower tension. At the moment I am using Velvet Garbo, which are an alright compromise.

[thebigyin]

[quote name='mtroun' timestamp='1472125142' post='3118702']
Gut strings are lovely, but expensive. Try them on someone else's bass. The main reason I like them is the lower tension. At the moment I am using Velvet Garbo, which are an alright compromise.
[/quote]
Thanks will check the Velvet Garbo out on youtube because of some of the negative comments and maintenance and expense i'd be happy with an alternative of strings similar to gut....watched a clip of gut-a-like strings someone suggested and quite liked the sound and price of them cheers Bob

[keeponehandloose]

If your curious about guts you will never be truly happy until youve tried them on your own bass for yourself.There will always be a niggle in your mind while you spend a small fortune on other strings first. Buy the guts and then decide.IMO.

[thebigyin]

[quote name='keeponehandloose' timestamp='1472142904' post='3118859']
If your curious about guts you will never be truly happy until youve tried them on your own bass for yourself.There will always be a niggle in your mind while you spend a small fortune on other strings first. Buy the guts and then decide.IMO.
[/quote]
Yeah i agree in some respect because you have to make your own judgement otherwise like you rightly said you will always have that doubt and never satisfy ones curiosity....but i-ve only been playing Upright a week....played Electric for many years. So obviously a bit wary and seeking a more knowledgeable and professional opinion thanks for your reply Cheers Bob

[mtroun]

[quote name='thebigyin' timestamp='1472148101' post='3118909']
Yeah i agree in some respect because you have to make your own judgement otherwise like you rightly said you will always have that doubt and never satisfy ones curiosity....but i-ve only been playing Upright a week....played Electric for many years. So obviously a bit wary and seeking a more knowledgeable and professional opinion thanks for your reply Cheers Bob
[/quote]
If you've been playing a week, I think finding a good teacher should be your foremost priority.