Phil Starr Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 [quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1455831958' post='2982894'] I can't imagine there is a venue on earth that has a capacity of 2500 with monitors worse than your average 500 watt bass rig? The highest live volumes I've encountered have been practice rooms and the quietest have ALWAYS been the biggest venues! I've used a 1x12 cab in front of a few thousand people with no problems at all. [/quote]and that's how it should work! However I've had different experiences including one sound engineer who put a noise gate on my monitor with a 1sec delay on it. I got some strange looks from the rest of the band who missed the first note or two of every entrance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Twickerman Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 Oh dear. Did you have words? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1455805105' post='2982592'] Several things will help. . . A louder amp. I'd classify what you have as a practice amp. If you want to cover all eventualities you need at least 500 watts and a 212 or 410 cab. I prefer 212's. ........................ [/quote] This... A 410 and appropriate amp so you can hear the thing should you need to. If your monitoring is good and you have a mon mix then even better you can set the amp up to suit. Other varibles are how you play and what you want to hear. So a 410 is good as is 115+210 typically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) [quote name='The Twickerman' timestamp='1455911944' post='2983651'] Oh dear. Did you have words? [/quote]A few �� We were double booked though with a second gig about ten miles away with an hour between this one ending and the next starting. So mainly we just smiled,did our thing and shot off. The lesson was never to trust everything to a sound engineer without talking to them first. This was a festival gig and we were the fourth band on. She had grabbed the nearest lead to plug into the di and it had been on a vocal mic, hence the gating. Edited February 20, 2016 by Phil Starr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Twickerman Posted February 29, 2016 Author Share Posted February 29, 2016 Well, we've a couple of warm-up gigs this weekend - with our sound engineer on the desk. He is happy to take a post-eq DI - so I'm happy. Let's see how it goes on the small stage first. The consensus within the band, based on their previous tours, is that 115W + 15" cab will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Twickerman Posted March 9, 2016 Author Share Posted March 9, 2016 An update. We played a couple of warm up gigs - a small 250 capacity place and then a 700 capacity place. I used the 115W valve amp with a 15" cab - with a pre-EQ DI taken (from the amp) to the desk. It was more than adequate for both. The interesting thing is that I actually played at a lower volume for the bigger gig (as was suggested first by sunburstjazz1967 and echoed by IanA and Phil Starr). I was at 5/10 input gain and 5/10 output level for the smaller venue (as I usually am for pub gigs) and turned the output level down to below 4/10 for the 700-capacity venue. One very interesting thing I found:- it was a useful compromise to take the pre-EQ feed to the desk at the larger venue. This meant I could apply quite extreme EQ in order to get a clear sound for myself on stage - without inflicting that on the audience (the stage itself provided very effective passive bass reinforcement). The sacrifice being that I had to trust the soundman to apply appropriate EQ to the bass (something he was more than able to do). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japhet Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 My 2p worth - either get your cab up to a height where you can hear it well or use a tilt stand (or cab/combo with that facility). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 [quote name='The Twickerman' timestamp='1457515812' post='2999171'] An update. We played a couple of warm up gigs - a small 250 capacity place and then a 700 capacity place. I used the 115W valve amp with a 15" cab - with a pre-EQ DI taken (from the amp) to the desk. It was more than adequate for both. The interesting thing is that I actually played at a lower volume for the bigger gig (as was suggested first by sunburstjazz1967 and echoed by IanA and Phil Starr). I was at 5/10 input gain and 5/10 output level for the smaller venue (as I usually am for pub gigs) and turned the output level down to below 4/10 for the 700-capacity venue. One very interesting thing I found:- it was a useful compromise to take the pre-EQ feed to the desk at the larger venue. This meant I could apply quite extreme EQ in order to get a clear sound for myself on stage - without inflicting that on the audience (the stage itself provided very effective passive bass reinforcement). The sacrifice being that I had to trust the soundman to apply appropriate EQ to the bass (something he was more than able to do). [/quote] There you go, problem solved! Many times people think that they need more power for bigger stages, that's rarely the case because there's often stage monitoring to reinforce your sound and not having the drummer hitting his cymbals hard just a few cm from your ears also helps you hear your bass better. For me, the only thing that a bigger stage needs is more low end capacity from the amp to give it a bit more punch (as oposed to pubs where that low end can muddy the stage's sound), the big open space can swallow most of the sub-bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 [quote name='The Twickerman' timestamp='1456777951' post='2992242'] Well, we've a couple of warm-up gigs this weekend - with our sound engineer on the desk. He is happy to take a post-eq DI - so I'm happy. [/quote] Interesting, I always send a pre eq signal through the DI so that the signal is unaltered, that way any eq that you add or subtract for the room does not affect the signal that the engineer receives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Twickerman Posted March 9, 2016 Author Share Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) ...and in fact we did use a pre-EQ DI! It wasn't what I would have chosen ideally, as I'd prefer the soundman took my tone as a starting point and re-EQed it as suits the room. Edited March 9, 2016 by The Twickerman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 [quote name='The Twickerman' timestamp='1457521810' post='2999257'] ...and in fact we did use a pre-EQ DI! It wasn't what I would have chosen ideally, as I'd prefer the soundman took my tone as a starting point and re-EQed it as suits the room. [/quote] Your cabs will require different eq to the P/A, all of the engineers that I have dealt with have asked for a pre signal for that reason. The best way for them to get "your sound" is to mike your cab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Twickerman Posted March 9, 2016 Author Share Posted March 9, 2016 [quote name='IanA' timestamp='1457524040' post='2999292'] Your cabs will require different eq to the P/A, all of the engineers that I have dealt with have asked for a pre signal for that reason. The best way for them to get "your sound" is to mike your cab [/quote] This may well be the way to go. Or "assist" the soundman with EQ (yes - I need someone to pluck the strings on stage whilst I listen from the soundboard). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Exactly as I thought and I do exactly the same ad you did, middy biting cutting tone for me I stage, delicious warm thump for the audience! No need to Mic it up or tilt the cab if it's a clear tone for monitoring. You can see now how one quality monitor in front of you and a di box would also do most gigs,those stacks we see at gigs are just nonsense to sell them to us weekend warriors at The Tickled Trout! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 [quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1457530792' post='2999402'] Exactly as I thought and I do exactly the same ad you did, middy biting cutting tone for me I stage, delicious warm thump for the audience! No need to Mic it up or tilt the cab if it's a clear tone for monitoring. You can see now how one quality monitor in front of you and a di box would also do most gigs,those stacks we see at gigs are just nonsense to sell them to us weekend warriors at The Tickled Trout! [/quote] That gig is way out of my league, I do have a Nexus line array system hooked up in my lounge though, it is overkill but I can't abide cheap gear😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 [quote name='IanA' timestamp='1457531146' post='2999413'] That gig is way out of my league, I do have a Nexus line array system hooked up in my lounge though, it is overkill but I can't abide cheap gear [/quote] I'm slumming it and decided to get some Clair Brothers hooked into my bathroom. Can't stand hearing people taking a dump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1457533165' post='2999438'] I'm slumming it and decided to get some Clair Brothers hooked into my bathroom. Can't stand hearing people taking a dump. [/quote] I wish there was a like button on this forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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