Greg.Bassman Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Hi all. Hoped I could pick your brains once more please. I've quickly come to love my LMIII for its warm, clear sound that it gives me. After playing a couple of shows with it, I can't help but feel that 500w just isn't quite cutting it against some of the larger stage setups that I find myself in (in an piece band with a loud drummer). Though I can just about hear myself, a few extra watts would be useful. My attention has turned to the Little Mark 800. Just wondering how the Little Mark 800 differs from the Little Mark III. Their website describes the LM800 as having a 'digital' power amp. What does this mean? and how will it differ (if any) from the tone I'm used to getting from my Little Mark III? All feedback appreciated. Cheers. P.S - Cab wise, I'm currently using the Markbass 104HF (4Ohm), will the LM 800 work well with this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I'm sure this may b a silly question, but would it solve the problem by adding more cabs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg.Bassman Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 Not a silly question at all lol. I wish. Due to show and transportation purposes, I'm afraid I'm reduced to a 410. Generally, it's very good; in a rehearsal room, it's a total gem- on a full stage with 8 other muso's though, and it starts to feel the strain I'm currently pushing the gain to 11 o'clock and setting the master around 12 o'clock; which I hate doing as (anything past 12 o'clock) it starts to clip. My thinking is, with the LM800, I hoping that I won't have to have the knobs so high to achieve my current volume- and at least (if needs be) I have the option to turn up further. Thoughts everyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Mark Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I know that other BCers were recommending that you get the 8 ohm version of the std104hf so you could add another 8 ohm cab if you wanted more volume, but as you only want to use one cab you may have been better served by the 4 ohm version which allows the LM3 to output its 500 watts not the approx 300 you are currently getting. The difference may be marginal but when I run my LM3 into the 4 ohm std104hf with both gain and master at 12 o'clock the volume is staggering. Both lm3 and LM800 have digital power amps these days. Maybe the previous analogue power amp LM3 was more powerful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg.Bassman Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 Hey Mark. I DO use the 4 Ohm version lol, and cool, thanks for explaining my 'digital amp' question; wasn't too sure myself, so thank you for clearing up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 If you're putting 500w into a decent 410, you should be getting some serious sound levels output - I never had any issues with a 2-guitar/keys band with a LMIII and the 410HR. Have you had a play with your EQ? If you're not 'cutting it', then mids are your friend in a band context - there's often a difference between a pleasant sound solo'd (usually mid-scooped) and one which works with the band. I'd start by setting the LMIII flat (that's VLE and VPF off, not at 12), and adding or subtracting from there. I'd suggest tilting the cab up to point at your head, but with a 410 that's gonna be a bit of a job. Or perhaps you could get the band to play a bit less loudly? If you're finding your 500w 410 rig isn't loud enough, I really hope you're protecting your hearing from everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) Firstly, I'm surprised you're experiencing a 500 watt amp and 4 ohm 410 cab run out of steam so early. I wouldn't have expected that. Maybe you can EQ some of the the bass out and add more low mid punch to cut through. The sound of a bass can get lost in the mix if there are too many bass frequencies. The LM2 was analogue but the LM3 and LM800 are both digital. Surely if you're clipping at 12 o'clock you're trying to overcompensate by running your input signal too hot. Do you get a lot of cone movement? I've seen guys improve their sound with an SFX Thumpinator. It cuts the very low frequencies, the ones that take a lot of power from the amp to produce and then the cab can't properly reproduce. Edited August 12, 2015 by chris_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Mark Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) Hey Greg . Doh, I missed the 4 ohm reference! I wouldn't worry too much about going past 12 o'clock on the gain and master as long as speakers aren't complaining. Unless you are hitting the strings really hard the gain control limit led should remain off at 12 o'clock with a typical output passive bass. Although the cab is rated as 800w this is a thermal rating only and the LM800 extra power may just end up being dissipated as heat rather than generating more volume. The 500 watts from the lm3 may already be as much as the cab can convert to sound energy. If you are maxed out on the amp and the cab isn't loud enough the only solution is probably more speakers ie use two 8 ohm std104hf. Edited August 12, 2015 by Sparky Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Mark Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1439371008' post='2842163'] The LM2 was analogue but the LM3 and LM800 are both digital. [/quote] +1 to all the EQ advice above. Too much low EQ will sap your ability to cut through in the mix. It's true that all LM2 have analogue power amplifiers but the lm3 power amp was changed to class d around 2012. I have an earlier lm3 which has the analogue power section. Edited August 12, 2015 by Sparky Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Yes, those filters on the LM amps, whilst they sound great, really do sap power needed. If you turn them fully off and experiment with getting the same sort of sound via just the eq I found there ws much more headroom available. Though in all honesty a LMT and an 8ohm 410 was more than enough for me (in punk bands as well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martthebass Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Like Lozz I tend to lay off the filters and pretty much find no issues with volume at the gain/master settings you describe in a loudish rock setup when running into two 12" cabs. Having said that, when needed I've never had a problem pushing the knobs clockwise without clipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_S Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 A definite +1 on being surprised that the LMIII and 4ohm 104HF are running out of steam - I have an old LMII, a new style LMIII and an LM800, and whilst the LM800 is very likely capable of a bit more volume, I've certainly never been in a position to test the theory in practice! To my ears, compared to the LMII/LMIII the LM800 sounds a bit less rounded, a bit more 'snappy' and can sometimes even feel just a bit clinical; I would say that whatever has been done to the power stage in the newer LMIII heads, the amp as a whole still has more in common with the LMII than the LM800. On that basis, you may find that the LM800 caters better for your requirement to put a hole right through a much bigger sound not because of the additional wattage, but rather just because of its slightly different delivery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 [quote name='Greg.Bassman' timestamp='1439330361' post='2842035'] Not a silly question at all lol. I wish. Due to show and transportation purposes, I'm afraid I'm reduced to a 410. Generally, it's very good; in a rehearsal room, it's a total gem- on a full stage with 8 other muso's though, and it starts to feel the strain I'm currently pushing the gain to 11 o'clock and setting the master around 12 o'clock; which I hate doing as (anything past 12 o'clock) it starts to clip. My thinking is, with the LM800, I hoping that I won't have to have the knobs so high to achieve my current volume- and at least (if needs be) I have the option to turn up further. Thoughts everyone? [/quote] I had both an LMIII and an LMT800 (the "tube" version, although whatever that did is questionable). They sound different. I liked both, but preferred the LMIII. The LMT800 has a bit more... "girth", but I can't say I noticed it being significantly louder than the LMIII, if at all. So, if your objective is simply more volume, the LM(T)800 may not be your best bet. I ended up selling the LMIII and LMT800 but keeping the CMD121P combo (LMIII head in small combo shape). I use that as stage monitor, somettimes with a small expension cab (various... I had Schroeder mini10R for a small rig version, TKS 1126 or BF BB2 or Compact for a slightly bigger one. I love the extra cab option (TKS or BF), because it's still portable and loud and good sounding. I used my LMIII with two cabs together: a single 15 (BF Compact) and a single 12 (BF BB2), and I can't imagine your 410 would be more efficient than that combination, plus you can very easily carry the two speakers, one in each hand. Not saying that you should get those exact cabs, but maybe a couple of efficient light single speaker cabs could work out better in the end. Regardless... LM800 purely for more volume is likely to disappoint, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Have you considered the GB Shuttle 9.2, if you really want to change amps? I found it closer to the LMIII than the LMT800 was (although it's a different animal), and I do feel I get a bit more "oomph" from that than the LMIII. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 just picked up a LM 3 after having a genz shuttle 9.0 I feel no discernable difference in volume and I am using a MArkbass 4x10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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