The Badderer Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 [quote] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]To be a proffesional you have to have an additional proffesional qualification rather than just do something for a living. [/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Often you see adverts for flats to rent "Seeking Proffesionals". I'm guessing they're not looking for proffesional refuse collectors.[/font][/color] [/quote] interestingly and with no confrontation intended i have seen the exact opposite with a friend of mine. He does metal polishing on great big massive cylinders used for constructing rigging and gearboxes for multi-million pound super yachts. He is what would be termed a "technician" as he has no higher education BEng etc., however, he has been doing his job for 16 years and can out perform all of his "Managers" when it comes to knowing how to build a massively powered gearboxes. In fact a lot of the time when they try to interfere he often has to calmly (or not) explain to them the numerous reasons why they are wrong. He is so highly proficient at his task that certain people have referred to his finish as the "industry standard". Now he is not considered a "professional" but he is professional.... I would agree how professional someone is, is down to how they are viewed in whatever context they are in. Taking my friend as an example, in the Marine Engineering industry he is probably a skilled technician / professional, but if you saw him in real life, the last thing you'd think is "you're a 'professional' " because he doesn't look like a Dr / Accountant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1423094374' post='2680830'] I think the term pro can mean a lot of different things. Some say if you only play on weekends your a hobbyist, I don't subscribe to that definition. Just because for the most part you only play weekends does not make it a hobby. It's not like building model cars, golf,or fishing.I don't think ,as a rule you come home with money from any of those 3 things. With a hobby you generally not providing a service. I was able to pay my condo association fee and utilities from monies I earned from last weekends gigs. Does that make me a pro? I don't know, to me it means I was able to pay my condo association fee and utilities from monies I earned from last weekends gigs. Here's something to think about. A group of musicians see you a gig and admire your performance and several say; [i]"Wow! good band and did you watch and hear their bass player, that guy is a real Pro."[/i] Maybe that's a Pro, when that is how your peers recognize you. Blue [/quote] Yep... Anyone can be a 'professional' if they make money at music..but some people might not considered them a true pro if they can't play. That is why the greater currency is excelling in a market that put most store in excellence, IMO. And I think this is most pertinent when you talk to fellow professionals... They aren't concerned that you've worked at music for 20 years and call yourself a pro musician, they want to know if you can really play. There are levels of heirachy in music and the one that crosses those levels is how well you play. Anything else is dressing, to all intents and purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 But there are so many jobs, especially "creative" ones where experience and proven ability far trump any qualifications (professional or not). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1423141372' post='2681281'] But there are so many jobs, especially "creative" ones where experience and proven ability far trump any qualifications (professional or not). [/quote] Most professional qualifications require a level of practical training and competence. There's people with degrees, then the professional qualification is gained some years after that. But there are routes through with just practical experience. You don't need formal qualifications, unitil the 'professional' bit. But that's an interesting aspect to the discussion specifically because it doesn't exist in music. It's pretty much becoming clear that 'professionalism' is what we're talking about, not just about earning money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I think that we are broadly OK in using the word professional as an adjective... but its use as a noun is fraught with confusion. So it's fine to say that a great musician, who does a great job and is reliable, [b][i]is[/i][/b] professional - whether or not he is [b][i]a[/i][/b] professional. Yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Why all this effort to define a professional musician? The term professional in the context of being a musician relates to earning a living not to ability. Professional musicians get paid to do what they do, exclusively. Semi pro musicians have a day job and play as a hobby for money. Very good players are better than good players and fantastic players are better than that. They may or may not be professional musicians. One of the best guitarists I've played with spent his life working in a factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japhet Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Making your living from music makes you a Pro. Making some money from music makes you a Semi Pro. Nothing to do with ability or depth of knowledge IMO. Pino can't read music but to me is the consummate Pro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1423146454' post='2681391'] Why all this effort to define a professional musician? The term professional in the context of being a musician relates to earning a living not to ability. Professional musicians get paid to do what they do, exclusively. Semi pro musicians have a day job and play as a hobby for money. Very good players are better than good players and fantastic players are better than that. They may or may not be professional musicians. One of the best guitarists I've played with spent his life working in a factory. [/quote] It's just a thought experiment I think. Hence you can have both unprofessional professionals and professional amateurs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyKnees Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 If you make a living out of music then that is your profession and you are therefore a professional. Doesn't mean you are necessarily any good of course... I've come across plently of crap builders, computer programmers, estate agents etc etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1423147444' post='2681414'] Hence you can have both unprofessional professionals and professional amateurs. [/quote] Our work here is done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I agree with the OP, it isn't about being famous. 2 examples: 1. My cousin is a pro sax player and had taught, sessioned, played live, mimed as a backing singer etc etc. She is not a famous name but is definitely a full time professional musician. 2. My next door neighbour has a 'regular' job and works with the guitarist from Cathedral (now defunct). He is at the top of his genre but doesn't earn enough to live on so works part time. I'd almost describe as part-time pro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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