blue Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) [size=4][font=Arial]With gigs being tough to get and bands keeping their calendar full I thought I'd throw this topic out there for discussion.[/font] [font=Arial]While this pertains to unrepresented bar/pub bands, please everyone chime in.[/font] [font=Arial]For bar bands that want to make decent coin, you can't rely on "one off " gigs. You need to know how to re-book. [/font][/size] [size=4][font=Arial]I think, if a band could win 12 pubs and keep them on the calendar and in a proper rotation they would have it made. [/font] [font=Arial]Easier [/font][font=Arial]said than done. Over here, on this side of the pond you can have a great night in terms of the crowd and booze sales for the LL[/font][font=Arial] and still get [i]" blown off "[/i] by the LL or the manager when it comes time to re-book. I'm thinking LLs are the same in the UK?[/font] [font=Arial]My band, we like to book 3 dates at a time with LLs, I think that's reasonable. [/font] [font=Arial]I have seen many newbie's make this mistake. They play a gig and have a great night, good draw and booze sales. They leave happy and actually [/font][font=Arial]think the LL see's the night through their eyes and will call them to re-book. Yeah, sure I guess that could happen, it's logical. But, I would bet[/font][font=Arial] that every veteran pub guy on this forum would laugh and say; [i]"Sure,but don't hold your breath for that call."[/i][/font] [font=Arial]What are your thoughts an ideas for the working pub band to keep that colander full and everyone have that extra $200.00 - $300.00 in their wallet. I'm sure[/font][font=Arial] we have some folks here that have expertise in re-booking gigs.[/font] [font=Arial]I only ask that we keep the [/font][font=Arial][i]"I don't do this for money"[/i] or [i]"I don't need the money"[/i] out of the equation. For the sake of discussion everyone wants more money.[/font] BTW, knowing your age and experience level will help generate the best appropriate response. [font=Arial]Blue[/font][/size] Edited February 2, 2015 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_Ben Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 When my band were trying to take bookings in the bar/pub circuit we would try booking a few months in advance, and always give a follow up email chasing a venue if it was worthwhile a couple of days later, after our show if it went down well, looking at what was available later in the year for a revisit. we tended to not block book with one pub, opting for the any gig is a good opportunity, and to not push our luck! (Something we found to be the opposite of true! Always push your luck, and not every gig is a good opportunity) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_Ben Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Trying to think of a colander joke about calenders... but I'm all washed out... too many holes in my diary... ... Move along ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 If we go into a new pub ..just to try it out, we'll want to make an impression, but we wont take a repeat booking on the night... but both parties will know whether they want to follow things up. We leave it to them to contact us and we'll chase them up if we think we are low on dates. For a decent venue, once we've established a decent working relationship we just agree a time when to follow up and book the year in. But... there aren't that many pubs we want to do and we don't take saturdays in the summer.. or at least not far in advance as all our best gigs are on a sat in the summer, pretty much and the pay more than pubs. Basically we do 5 or so regular pubs and will play them 3 or 4 times a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobVbass Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 For new places we normally chat to the LL or staff on the night and see what they think then give them the chance to run before we chase them (if we want to). For existing places we'll book extra dates on the night and also offer a discount if they want to block book - i.e. 4 gigs gives them 10% off our normal rate etc [quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]BTW, knowing your age and experience level will help generate the best appropriate response.[/font][/color][/quote] 40's and 50's been playing pubs and clubs for 30 years or so.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1422836297' post='2677483'] [size=4][font=Arial]With gigs being tough to get and bands keeping their calendar full I thought I'd throw this topic out there for discussion.[/font] [font=Arial]While this pertains to unrepresented bar/pub bands, please everyone chime in.[/font] [font=Arial]For bar bands that want to make decent coin, you can't rely on "one off " gigs. You need to know how to re-book. [/font][/size] [size=4][font=Arial]I think, if a band could win 12 pubs and keep them on the calendar and in a proper rotation they would have it made. [/font] [font=Arial]Easier [/font][font=Arial]said than done. Over here, on this side of the pond you can have a great night in terms of the crowd and booze sales for the LL[/font][font=Arial] and still get [i]" blown off "[/i] by the LL or the manager when it comes time to re-book. I'm thinking LLs are the same in the UK?[/font] [font=Arial]My band, we like to book 3 dates at a time with LLs, I think that's reasonable. [/font] [font=Arial]I have seen many newbie's make this mistake. They play a gig and have a great night, good draw and booze sales. They leave happy and actually [/font][font=Arial]think the LL see's the night through their eyes and will call them to re-book. Yeah, sure I guess that could happen, it's logical. But, I would bet[/font][font=Arial] that every veteran pub guy on this forum would laugh and say; [i]"Sure,but don't hold your breath for that call."[/i][/font] [font=Arial]What are your thoughts an ideas for the working pub band to keep that colander full and everyone have that extra $200.00 - $300.00 in their wallet. I'm sure[/font][font=Arial] we have some folks here that have expertise in re-booking gigs.[/font] .......................... BTW, knowing your age and experience level will help generate the best appropriate response. [font=Arial]Blue[/font][/size] [/quote] Around here, no LL will blew off a band that can pull very well...unless there is a personal conflict, so therefore LL's and pubs WILL chase the most popular bands. They know who works for them.. and in some cases, they just like that type of music so since it is their deal, they have to afford that indulgence... but basically the LL/venue need the gigs to work for them and that means the band needs to pull enough to sell alcohol. I keep an eye out for the numbers we pull in certain pubs as it helps us negotiate more money but we want the gig to be a good gig rather than a fantastic payer as pubs are loss leaders and too much work for the money, IMO..and the rest of the band. If we are the best draw the pub has..or one of them, we want the most money...but there is a ceiling and equation that needs to work all round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 [quote name='BobVbass' timestamp='1422881139' post='2677790'] For new places we normally chat to the LL or staff on the night and see what they think then give them the chance to run before we chase them (if we want to). For existing places we'll book extra dates on the night and also offer a discount if they want to block book - i.e. 4 gigs gives them 10% off our normal rate etc 40's and 50's been playing pubs and clubs for 30 years or so.... [/quote] Those are the same methods we use. The problem we run into is, a lot of the time the LL or the decision maker is not at the club after a gig. Chasing LLs and Managers seems to be problematic. Many over here are not good at returning calls or e-mail. It's chase chase chase and hope that you will catch them at the right time. Blue (62,been playing bar,clubs, fairs and festivals for 40 plus years) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1422882062' post='2677804'] Around here, no LL will blew off a band that can pull very well...unless there is a personal conflict, so therefore LL's and pubs WILL chase the most popular bands. They know who works for them.. and in some cases, they just like that type of music so since it is their deal, they have to afford that indulgence... but basically the LL/venue need the gigs to work for them and that means the band needs to pull enough to sell alcohol. I keep an eye out for the numbers we pull in certain pubs as it helps us negotiate more money but we want the gig to be a good gig rather than a fantastic payer as pubs are loss leaders and too much work for the money, IMO..and the rest of the band. If we are the best draw the pub has..or one of them, we want the most money...but there is a ceiling and equation that needs to work all round. [/quote] Over here getting calls from LLs is rare. It does happen and it's usually when a band cancels and they need a replacement. Could be a cultural thing,we could have a great night, place is packed and the bar busy all night. Over here the LLs do not attribute that extra business to the band. Many of the places we play have what we call built in crowds. Meaning the club/pub does good business all the time regardless of what band is playing. Blue Edited February 2, 2015 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 In my old punk covers band (all in 40s) we had three or four venues which we played every three months, then chucked in any one-offs we got asked to do. And we got asked a lot, probably turned down as many as we actually played, more down to the clientele than anything. But the requests came from reputation as a band that seemed to generate bar turnover. So really, re re-bookings, sure you`ve got to be able to play but if your audience doesn`t spend much, well imo that has to be a big factor. If the venue know they`ll have a good nights takings if you`re playing, well you`re onto a winner. In my experience, punk covers seem to generate some very big drinkers. But I`m sure not everyone wants to do punk covers but you get my drift here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1422901548' post='2678140'] Over here getting calls from LLs is rare. It does happen and it's usually when a band cancels and they need a replacement. Could be a cultural thing,we could have a great night, place is packed and the bar busy all night. Over here the LLs do not attribute that extra business to the band. Many of the places we play have what we call built in crowds. Meaning the club/pub does good business all the time regardless of what band is playing. Blue [/quote] A music venue or pub here puts on music and the band IS the draw. Some venues have their own regular music fans but the pub wants you to bring yours in so doubling the attendence. Now, there are so many pubs trying music that this waters down the music going public, but even back in the good old days when a town only had one decent music pub, the pub still had to get and book the best bands. In some ways, with the amount of venues/pubs around now, there are so many opportunities to play than I recall before and bands that wouldn't stand a chance of playing pubs now get gigs. I am not sure this is a good idea, myself and I've always though the relaxing of getting a music license was a poor idea exactly for this reason. I know people will bemoan certain venues going bust, but I think around here the music scene is very vibrant but the reason why fees are so low is because there are so many bands working....or trying to work. A local studio rehearsal studio owner was telling me...that in a town of 130k or so, he thought there would be over 100 bands ..??? and he was serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Striking while the iron is hot and sorting the rebooking on the night is always the best way and always try to get a years worth of bookings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 [quote name='Les' timestamp='1422914755' post='2678429'] Striking while the iron is hot and sorting the rebooking on the night is always the best way and always try to get a years worth of bookings. [/quote] That can work, however, you can only do that if the iron is actually there. Over here, LLs & owners are usually not there. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) [quote name='blue' timestamp='1422938373' post='2678599'] That can work, however, you can only do that if the iron is actually there. Over here, LLs & owners are usually not there. Blue [/quote] Doesn't seem to be the general case over here. Most of the bookers are usually at the gig. It would have to be the usual runaround of trying to get hold of the booker on the phone then. I would still advocate striking quickly rather leaving it a few weeks. Edited February 3, 2015 by Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I really don't understand when you are a new band, play a blinder, the pubs rammed, the owner raves about how much he enjoyed it, the locals all say that was the best night we've had in here for ages, and you never hear from them again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 [quote name='ubit' timestamp='1422950018' post='2678639'] I really don't understand when you are a new band, play a blinder, the pubs rammed, the owner raves about how much he enjoyed it, the locals all say that was the best night we've had in here for ages, and you never hear from them again. [/quote] No, I wouldn't understand that either.. I'd assume something didn't work for them or they are just being polite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_Ben Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1422955597' post='2678699'] No, I wouldn't understand that either.. I'd assume something didn't work for them or they are just being polite? [/quote] You're dealing with people who for a living drink and lie in! They are lazy bums more likely than anything else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I'd actually like to play a few more different venues just for the variety but the current band I'm in has a rolling agreement with 2 venues to play them every month. Another venue we played about 3 times last year is now also wanting to up that to 5 or 6 this year but that is still only 3 different places. I think there's an element of 'too many eggs in too few baskets' for me but that seems to be how the band leader rolls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) [quote name='ubit' timestamp='1422950018' post='2678639'] I really don't understand when you are a new band, play a blinder, the pubs rammed, the owner raves about how much he enjoyed it, the locals all say that was the best night we've had in here for ages, and you never hear from them again. [/quote] That sounds more like what happens over here. As I mentioned earlier, some LLs and Owners don't attribute a packed club and big alcohol sales to the band. However, over here if you sit around waiting for these LLs and Owners to call you back, your band would be out of business. I think the pub business is a little different than the bar business in the States. I still say most ( not all) think a band is a band. The only way you might distinguish yourself from any other bar band is if your too loud, Don't get me wrong, there are some bars that only hire what I consider some of the better local bands. Blue Edited February 3, 2015 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Yeah, I'm old enough to realise that we are not responsible for bringing in loads of folk, but one particular occasion, we had a great sound, people who might have left stayed and I think some folk got on their phones, because it turned into a really busy night and we were told it hadn't been that busy since so and so played. Everyone said they enjoyed it including the bar staff. The landlord said he would definitely get us back, then nothing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoham Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Around here, paid pub gigs are virtually non-existent! Pay to play and play for free a plently...... Couple of guys with guitars and backing tracks and you might get a gig, but bass and drums? Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 [quote name='ubit' timestamp='1422974829' post='2679030'] Yeah, I'm old enough to realise that we are not responsible for bringing in loads of folk, but one particular occasion, we had a great sound, people who might have left stayed and I think some folk got on their phones, because it turned into a really busy night and we were told it hadn't been that busy since so and so played. Everyone said they enjoyed it including the bar staff. The landlord said he would definitely get us back, then nothing! [/quote] Again, if we want business we have to get back to the LLs and Owners and have a strategy to get them to commit to a date or date. If we can all learn something from this thread, for most bands it's our responsibility to follow up with these LLs we can't sit idle and wait for their call. Understand there is good reason why they don't call us. If they call us it gives us leverage on price and they don't like that. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_Ben Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1422985916' post='2679190'] If we can all learn something from this thread, for most bands it's our responsibility to follow up with these LLs we can't sit idle and wait for their call. Understand there is good reason why they don't call us. If they call us it gives us leverage on price and they don't like that. Blue [/quote] This is what we do with promoters and tour organisers now. Only once you have a booking agent do gigs start 'falling in your lap' in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidbass Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 In my experience - if I have to chase a gig, I'm already at a disadvantage. I'm very happy to let a promoter show their interest in my band and for them to make the first move to rebook. A manager/promoter will know what he/she wants, and if you are lucky enough to fall into that category then you will get work. For every promoter who loves your band, there will be one who is indifferent. Better off not wasting your time with the latter IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 [quote name='acidbass' timestamp='1423002711' post='2679551'] In my experience - if I have to chase a gig, I'm already at a disadvantage. I'm very happy to let a promoter show their interest in my band and for them to make the first move to rebook. A manager/promoter will know what he/she wants, and if you are lucky enough to fall into that category then you will get work. For every promoter who loves your band, there will be one who is indifferent. Better off not wasting your time with the latter IMO. [/quote] Over here promoters, agents and tour organizers do not do business with bar bands,only functions/corporate bands. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 I guess the way I see it, at the bar band level ( I can't speak for pub bands even though there are some similarities) a packed bar and over the top alcohol sales does not not mean the LL is going to bend over backwards to re-book the band. I don't think it's a good idea when a band has a fantastic night to sit back and say; [i]" Wow! did you how busy the bar was all night and the crowd was huge, I know the LL will be giving us a call"[/i] Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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