Mykesbass Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Now I know we've been over the whole playing for money debate many times, and I've tended to sit on the fence as I can see the value of open mic and jam nights - in fact was involved in running a jam night for a few years. However, I have just seen on Facebook a pub that I approached a couple of weeks ago for a gig to be told that they are fully booked for 2015 advertising a Blues Jam TONIGHT!! They even have a set list that you can put your name against two songs to play. To me this has really overstepped the mark, blatantly using a jam in place of a live band, not as a midweek spot where they wouldn't be paying for a band anyway. Just glad I've got a gig elsewhere tonight. Rant over [size=4] [/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Just being Devil's Avocado for a moment... does it really matter? Isn't it better to have some kind of live music than none at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1421495270' post='2661938'] Just being Devil's Avocado for a moment... does it really matter? Isn't it better to have some kind of live music than none at all? [/quote] In some cases yes, but in this one they are replacing bands that they have to pay for with a jam night that they don't. As I said, they don't have any more spots available for bands for the whole year, so if it wasn't a jam night there would be live music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbyrne Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) It'll be interesting to see who turns up for a jam night on a Saturday...... G. Edited January 17, 2015 by geoffbyrne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taunton-hobbit Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Ahem - might it just be that the pub, for whatever reason, didn't want you? I've told bookers that I didn't want to work for, that I was booked up for the next twelve months...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockbassix Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 There's a chance it could have been a last minute cancellation and they've tried to come up with something to cover an empty night at short notice! I used to run a pub that had regular live bands and it was amazing how many cancelled on the day due to accidents, illness etc. Then we'd get customers complaining that they expected live music and came along for that purpose. We had a couple of local bands that would happily fill any empty slot at the last minute if they weren't booked elsewhere but even then we'd get complaints that it wasn't the band we'd originally advertised. I wouldn't have tried to put a jam night on at short notice though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnythenotes Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Lets face it guys...so many jams are organised by the same bloke who wrote Groundhog Day.. The same 'house musicians' open up the night with the same songs every week. If you are a regular, a lot of mutual back slapping goes on, and then a conversation starts along the lines of ' what shall we have a bash at this week' or 'Mick and Fred are in tonight, that means we can have a go at Mustang Sally." I love jam sessions, especially if a spot of jamming actually occurs. Creating music on the spot, with people you have never met before is rewarding for the players, and entertaining for an audience,who can see and hear this music being created before there eyes. A cobbled together version of All right Now is about as interesting as a kick in the nutz. Jam nights should be places where musicians can get together and let the creative juices flow, but so many times they turn into showcases for over indulgent players who just want to show off a bit. An example of a jam session at its best is The Clarendon, in Leamington, where you turn up, express interest to the organiser, and wait untill you are invited to join whoever is already up there. It is always well attended, as both players and the audience know they are going to get something different at every session. Anyway, that's it.... Lets use Jam sessions for trying to be creative, instead of four or five people attempting songs they think they know, and sort of remember the chorus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1421495270' post='2661938'] Just being Devil's Avocado for a moment... does it really matter? Isn't it better to have some kind of live music than none at all? [/quote] I know many of the folks on this forum are not gigging musicians and have no interest in gigging, so the perspectives to me as a gigging guy are interesting. I have to say "No!" it isn't better than no live music at all. A bar owner once told me [i]" Why would I hire a band for $400.00 when these guys will come in here and play for $100.00"[/i] After hearing that comment, I'm broad stroking all open mics. I won't play them or patron them. Regardless of what day of the week it is. They have the right to run their business as they see fit and I have the right to have nothing to do with it. Back in the early 70s when I was a young guy, we had jam sessions usually held in someones home. we would jam with all sorts of musicians to the wee hours of the morning and everyone would have a chance to play. Not restricted to the friends of a hosting band at these things called open mic. Truth is , most are not open at all. Especially to bass guitar players. Those jam sessions were great for developing your improvisational skills and style. It's funny how many younger guys don't know how to improvise or jam. You start a riff or a lick and they are just baffled. I don't get it. Blue Edited January 17, 2015 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Some great Basslines at a Jam Night.... I go to a couple of these and am usually the unpaid bassist too. That said at both venues they also put on live artists and will book someone/or a band based on their showing at a jam. Edited January 17, 2015 by yorks5stringer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) [quote name='blue' timestamp='1421529733' post='2662435'] I have to say "No!" it isn't better than no live music at all. A bar owner once told me [i]" Why would I hire a band for $400.00 when these guys will come in here and play for $100.00"[/i] [/quote] Well there is that, but I would have thought a well-rehearsed band with proper sets is going to draw more paying punters than a mixed bag of drifters, students, alcoholics, drug takers and the wildly-deluded unemployed all making it up as they go along and creating a terrible racket. I'll walk out of a pub if a jam night erupts, whereas I'm quite happy to listen to/drink with/chat up a proper band... Edited January 17, 2015 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1421536405' post='2662565'] Well there is that, but I would have thought a well-rehearsed band with proper sets is going to draw more paying punters than a mixed bag of drifters, students, alcoholics, drug takers and the wildly-deluded unemployed all making it up as they go along and creating a terrible racket. [/quote] No, not really live rock music is a real hard sell in Milwaukee even the well rehearsed bands with proper sets. It's why our niche is in the 55-60+ folks that still remember what we think were the[i] "good old days" [/i]and like to go out and see musicians that actually know how to play guitar, bass guitar, drums and keys. Thing is, slowly but surely that generation is fading fast where they no longer go out any more and they're in bed by 10:30. Not me, I'm 62 and I'm going to run the wheels off this frame. If I'm not gigging I'm still out late at concerts checking out bands. But over all the few good rock bands with any type of following are only playing the bars that truly support and understand the live rock bar business.These would not be the places that hold open mics. I will always use Greg, our local guitar hero as an example of the top of the heap for guys still playing bars. Great act, but he doesn't have it any easier than the rest of us. [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL5UuukdnQY"]https://www.youtube....h?v=qL5UuukdnQY[/url] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQQIT4SJHpY blue Edited January 18, 2015 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 [quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1421531664' post='2662481'] Some great Basslines at a Jam Night.... I go to a couple of these and am usually the unpaid bassist too. That said at both venues they also put on live artists and will book someone/or a band based on their showing at a jam. [/quote] Unpaid bassist? Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1421538990' post='2662614'] Unpaid bassist? Blue [/quote] Yes, the guy who runs and gets paid needs the money more than me and I learn loads of Jazz stuff from him. It's a win-win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) [quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1421540757' post='2662634'] Yes, the guy who runs and gets paid needs the money more than me and I learn loads of Jazz stuff from him. It's a win-win. [/quote] Well I guess that's a form of payment. And fair. Many times I will here this [i]"I don't need the money " [/i]story. Then I will always ask, ok are you giving your cut to the guys in the band that do need it. Sounds like you actually doing that. Which to me is cool. Me I have to many years invested in this business, I don't necessarily [i]"need the money"[/i], however I do [i]"want the the money"[/i] and I take every penny coming to me. Blue Edited January 18, 2015 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 [quote name='taunton-hobbit' timestamp='1421509262' post='2662103'] Ahem - might it just be that the pub, for whatever reason, didn't want you? I've told bookers that I didn't want to work for, that I was booked up for the next twelve months...... [/quote] [size=4] Naughty!! No, pretty sure it wasn't the case as the landlord was very friendly and as soon as I said I was looking for gigs he laughed and said "not this year I hope?"[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I don't see anything wrong with jam nights. No-one would complain if, instead of a band, the owner put on a Bingo night or a darts tournament. The landlords are under no obligation to provide us with paid gigs. He's doing the same as you, trying to earn a living. People go on about it being a closed shop for mates of the house band or the fact that they might have to listen to a load of deluded crap players all night but not giving others a chance to get up there and have a go is also promoting a clic situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 [quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1421575236' post='2662740'] I don't see anything wrong with jam nights. No-one would complain if, instead of a band, the owner put on a Bingo night or a darts tournament. The landlords are under no obligation to provide us with paid gigs. He's doing the same as you, trying to earn a living. People go on about it being a closed shop for mates of the house band or the fact that they might have to listen to a load of deluded crap players all night but not giving others a chance to get up there and have a go is also promoting a clic situation. [/quote] I have no problem with jam nights/open mics per-se but this is a situation where one is directly replacing a gig night in a gig venue. The one I used to help run in Ipswich was great - getting youngsters and new players up and playing with the more experienced ones, people finding band mates and getting gigs - all very positive stuff. Most importantly, it was held on Wednesday nights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmo Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Would a jam night be a good place to spot talent. Some people don`t have a band, so maybe a good place to find one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 So is the venue fully booked for 2015 with JUST jam nights or are they still having bands too? If they're still having bands, it could just be a one off on a Saturday night, then there's nothing to worry about. However, even if they are not prepared to pay bands any more at all, it's their choice. If you decided to have solar panels on your house, you wouldn't expect EDF to turn up and say it's not fair As you said, you had another gig for last night anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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