Keeping a rhythm ??

[larrikin]

Hi,

I've been playing bass on and off for around a year now, and if I'm shown how to play something or shown a tab 9 times out of 10 i can do it no trouble.

But when I'm playing along with a song or something I can't keep the rythym and I just sound awful - I jammed with a friends band not so long ago and just embarrassed myself - Does anyone have any tips to help me keep that rhythm???

Thanks

Edited August 6, 2008 by larrikin

[Shaun]

Play along to a metronome and drums (real or computer) everyday. Don't only practice lines by yourself without percussion/drums/metronome.

Also actively listen to the drums.

Nothing beats genuine playing along with other musicians in a band situation (in my opinion).

Edited August 6, 2008 by Shaun

[waynepunkdude]

I always listen to the snare.

When you learn a song with tab, do you play along with original or do you just play it?

I had this same problem when I was 15 (10 years ago ) I had been playing for 3 years but not with a band and then I was thrown in at the deep end and I was shocking.

Metronomes are invaluble for timing.

[wulf]

As well as practise with a rhythmic reference (and make sure you are keeping in time with them - it is a demanding task if you are not used to it) try sticking to simple lines.

For example, don't try to play a complex riff - just stick with the root note of the chord and a simple rhythm. It isn't that demanding and will often sound better than a more complex part (especially if, as mentioned, you haven't quite mastered your internal sense of time).

Wulf

[Jase]

Keep on jamming, that's a really good way to get your timing right with the other guys, particularly with the drummer. Why not arrange for just the two of you to get together and go through some bass and drums (the best part of any band ) and see what sort of feel/groove you come up with. Or go out and see some live bands, check out what the rhythm section is doing. Main thing is...keep playing, try things out, we all make mistakes and sometimes good grooves come from mistakes. Get in there mate

[Shaun]

[quote name='Jase' post='256142' date='Aug 6 2008, 12:06 PM']Keep on jamming, that's a really good way to get your timing right with the other guys, particularly with the drummer. Why not arrange for just the two of you to get together and go through some bass and drums (the best part of any band ) and see what sort of feel/groove you come up with. Or go out and see some live bands, check out what the rhythm section is doing. Main thing is...keep playing, try things out, we all make mistakes and sometimes good grooves come from mistakes. Get in there mate [/quote]

Definitely,

Keep on playing, mistakes are part of the learning process.

Edited August 6, 2008 by Shaun

[larrikin]

Thanks guys, I'm not quite sure what you mean there Wulf?

Yeah a metronome is what everyone seems to say, I think I will go home tonight and use the online one for a few hours.

The main types of music I play is stuff like Kings Of leon (I have the same bass), Joy Division and the Pixies. Should I be trying something more simpler??

Also - I've been told to learn time signatures which I have abssolutely NO clue about, it just baffles me!

[waynepunkdude]

1.2.3.4

4/4 timing is all you will need

[larrikin]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='256152' date='Aug 6 2008, 12:15 PM']1.2.3.4

4/4 timing is all you will need [/quote]

See, not a clue what that means haha

[Alastair]

4 beats to a bar, common time. It's all just theory you'll pick up over your time playing.

Some people are naturally able to pick up rhythm fine and some have to work at it. No biggie, all of the above is good advice and some that I should probably take too!

Edited August 6, 2008 by Alastair

[Galilee]

Can you tap your fingers or clap your hands in time along with a song? I know plenty of people who can't do this, and it's made me think that some people just can't discern a rhythm.

Not trying to be discouraging, just wondering.

[waynepunkdude]

If it turns out you can't keep time join a Punk band.

[Alastair]

[quote name='Galilee' post='256178' date='Aug 6 2008, 12:35 PM']Can you tap your fingers or clap your hands in time along with a song? I know plenty of people who can't do this, and it's made me think that some people just can't discern a rhythm.

Not trying to be discouraging, just wondering.[/quote]
Every show ive ever worked on I've seen people like that, clapping along to songs completely at random with no regards to time!

I've never understood it, it's quite a skill.

[markytbass]

Get a good metronome and/or a good drummer to jam with. You may even find some drum tracks on line to play along to.

[larrikin]

[quote name='Galilee' post='256178' date='Aug 6 2008, 12:35 PM']Can you tap your fingers or clap your hands in time along with a song? I know plenty of people who can't do this, and it's made me think that some people just can't discern a rhythm.

Not trying to be discouraging, just wondering.[/quote]

I can clap or click, find it hard to tap my foot along with it though!

I've just started up a band and we start practice in a week, if I go in and just don't know how to keep rhythm, there's a stron possiblity I might be given the elbow!!

I'm not to good at making up my own bass lines either - should I just give up?!?!

[thepurpleblob]

Learn some basic theory. Get a basic book, "Bass Guitar for Dummies" is easy to find and as good as any. Alternatively, there's loads of stuff on the interweb. Here's one to be going on with:
[url="http://wheatsbassbook.org/chapter_select.php?chapter=019"]http://wheatsbassbook.org/chapter_select.php?chapter=019[/url]

Learn to count; learn what a bar is and how to recognise the first beat and how to count it. As has been said, most go 1.2.3.4 1.2.3.4 right through the song. You *need* to be able to do that. I used to be a drummer, so I have it easy, but if you don't have that advantage it's absolutely vital that you play along with something. If it suddenly gets impossible then you'll have to simplify the line or do it slower until you can.

Don't take me the wrong way, but playing some mad complicated riff and then coming in two beats late is playing it incorrectly.

Oh... and don't you dare give up. To quote somebody who knows better than me, "it's only hard because you've not done it before". Playing in your new band is probably what you need. You'll be surprised how quickly you improve doing that.

Edited August 6, 2008 by thepurpleblob

[stingrayfan]

[quote name='larrikin' post='256193' date='Aug 6 2008, 12:50 PM']I can clap or click, find it hard to tap my foot along with it though![/quote]
I was just going to say - tap your foot while you play. It's a good metronome.

Also - keep it simple. 2 notes in a bar played in sync with a drummer will always sound better than some crazy Peter Hook bassline.

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='256197' date='Aug 6 2008, 12:52 PM']Learn some basic theory. Get a basic book, "Bass Guitar for Dummies" is easy to find and as good as any. Alternatively, there's loads of stuff on the interweb. Here's one to be going on with:
[url="http://wheatsbassbook.org/chapter_select.php?chapter=019"]http://wheatsbassbook.org/chapter_select.php?chapter=019[/url]

Learn to count; learn what a bar is and how to recognise the first beat and how to count it. As has been said, most go 1.2.3.4 1.2.3.4 right through the song. You *need* to be able to do that. I used to be a drummer, so I have it easy, but if you don't have that advantage it's absolutely vital that you play along with something. If it suddenly gets impossible then you'll have to simplify the line or do it slower until you can.

Don't take me the wrong way, but playing some mad complicated riff and then coming in two beats late is playing it incorrectly.[/quote]


I might have Bass Guitar For Dummies around here somewhere if I can find it you can have it, it's a good book.

Don't give up, if you enjoy it you will get there in the end.

[Shaun]

Def [b]don't[/b] give up!!

[Geek99]

tapping your foot does come in time (pardon the pun) - my foot always seemed welded to my fingers, slowing down or speeding up as the notes varied in length and offering no guide whatsoever to the beat, However in the last few days, with hard practice , its got better. I just sat there playing resolutely and slowly in time to the metronome with my fingers and tapping my feet.

Recommend Bass Guitar for Dummies, also recommend "Stuff Good BAss PLayers should know" by Glen Letsch and also "100 tips for bass guitar" by Stuart Clayton (which utterly changed my thinking about all this)

[Cantdosleepy]

[quote name='larrikin' post='256154' date='Aug 6 2008, 12:17 PM'][quote]
4/4 is all you need[/quote]See, not a clue what that means haha
[/quote]

4/4 is a very, very common time signature for rock music like Kings of Leon. It basically means that every fourth beat is accented. You know when the drummer clicks his/her sticks together before a song starts? Or the famous thing of someone shouting 'One, two, one-two-three-four'? They're showing the band how fast the song needs to be played.

Don't want to seem patronising here, so apologies if I am being a bit simple.

Put a KoL song on now and just listen to it, saying the words 'one, two, three, four, one, two, three, four' over and over in time to the music, with a gap of probably a bit less than a second in between the words. Does it feel like you're speaking in time with the music? Now try saying 'one, two, three, four, five, one, two, three, four five' over and over. That will probably sound wrong - you'll be getting out of sync with the natural feel of the music.

Agree with above - get a metronome! And play with other people whenever you get the chance!

[BassBomber414]

Larriken ,

Make yourself listen to each track ten times without your Bass in your hands.Tap the basic 'time' with your hand or foot.(1 , 2, 3, 4 , 1, 2, 3, 4)Then follow the track whist 'reading' the tab and tapping the beat.

On more complicated tabs you could get a guitarist to circle the notes that fall on the beat .This will help you learn it 'right' from the start.

Play your track through with a metronome only and if you need to , set it slow at first until you can play the peice at real time.Get that foot tapping in time.Then and only then , play with the backing track.

When playing with a band, if you can tear your eyes from your left hand, you might find it useful to watch the drummer. All the 'construction' of a track can be read from the drummer -not just timing - how he leads into a intro/verse/lead/bridge/ending.Have the drummer tap his sticks in time for 4 beats where you can see them as a prelude to each track.Buy him a pint.

I finaly cured my timing problems when I got a Zoom B2 pedal and started jamming to the pre- programmed drum beats using headphones.This makes you concentrate on the beat which is a Bassman's priorty.

Good Luck, and don't you give up , because one day soon ,you will crack it.

Edited August 6, 2008 by BassBomber414

[johnnylager]

[quote name='Alastair' post='256156' date='Aug 6 2008, 12:20 PM']Some people are naturally able to pick up rhythm fine - [b]bassists[/b][/quote]

[quote name='Alastair' post='256156' date='Aug 6 2008, 12:20 PM']and some have to work at it - [b]guitarists[/b][/quote]

[SteveK]

You say that you've been playing bass "on and off for a year now". That really isn't very long, particularly if you've been more off than on

You probably need to apply yourself a little more and set aside some serious practice time.

I would avoid a metronome... [b]dock[/b] click click click [b]dock[/b] click click click [b]dock[/b] click click click [b]dock[/b] click click click [b]dock[/b] click click click [b]dock[/b] click click click [b]dock[/b] click click click [b]dock[/b] click click click [b]dock[/b] click click click [b]dock[/b] click click click [b]dock[/b] click click click......

Imagine that for an hour at a time...it will drive you mad (think they use it as a form of torture in some countries)
Little programmable drum machines are cheap enough these days and much more practice friendly.

Set it to play a simple, slow 4/4 pattern and play 1 note (C for example) per beat (known as playing 4s) when you feel that you're comfortable with that, try increasing the tempo.
When you've had enough of that, take the tempo right down and try playing 2 notes per beat (known as 8s) and again slowly upping the tempo when you feel comfortable

When you rehearse with your band it is essential that you hear the drums, pay particular attention to the Hi-Hat and try to lock in.

It will be difficult to start with, but if you apply yourself, you'll get there.

Steve

[mewsie]

pffft... don't give up!

i'd also recommend you count out loud to a tune you love to help you pick up the rhythm. play some really simple basslines as well as the more complicated ones, which will mean you can concentrate on your timing, not where your fingers have to be.

as far as writing basslines goes, i've found the more songs i've learnt, the more cool ideas i've had for basslines, and the fact that i've been playing all these other tunes has meant my skill level has gone up massively and i have a lot more techniques available to me in writing my own! listening to music i wouldn't have listened to a few years ago has made a massive difference too.

good luck, keep at it!

x