JamesBass Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 So we all know just how useless many of the modern day "Promoters" are, we've all been to gigs where they say you get a couple of quid per ticket sold by your band etc. However if anyone here is a member of the Musicians Union and have checked out their website you'll see they have a going rate for the 2012 tax year, and I've gotta say my bands been under-paid by over £100 pretty much each gig! I'm fairly certain that if you give that sheet to a local chancer type promoter there'd been none left! Which might be a good thing or a bad thing, who knows! Anyway the MU reckon going rate for a pub gig is around £108 for 3 hours, it doesn't specify if that is a 3 hour set, I highly doubt it, more likely to be the entire time you're there with any overtime paid at £36ph! As for a concert venue it's £125 for 3 hours! Wish I had this to hand last year now! How many others out there have been underpaid and were clueless as to this? I'm genuinely shocked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 How can you be underpaid... you can be offered a fee for a gig which you either accept or decline; if you accept then it is impossible to be underpaid if that amount is handed over! You are underpaid if you are given an amount less than you agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Ask promoter what ticket price. What is venue capacity. Calculate door revenue from this. Ask for 60% plus expenses. That's what we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurhenry Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Tell a landlord or promoter that you require union rates and you won't be booked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepbass5 Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 We have always aimed to pay the union casual gig rate to band members in our functions band, and have done so most gigs for over 20 years, but this stance has resulted in last years gigs dropping by 40% on the previous year. So you have to set out your stall and live by that. Market forces may mean this is our last serious year gigging. But we will not go out for pub prices and undermine the business and sell all bands short. You can’t be down the pub for £200 then try charging £600 for a wedding the next week because word gets about. It’s a tough call. People will pay for quality acts but from the punters view its like fishing for ducks at the fair, the internet is a real lottery for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Don't agree, we will do a pub at pub rates and quote £600 upwards for a party for mates and around £1000 for weddings. Our festival rate isn't that much lower but we have better shows for them. Depends if you start at a pub band.... We limit what we do in that regard as it impacts on the rate and price of tickets you can charge ... But we will do a pub if we like the place and use it as a loss leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1362605980' post='2002168'] Our festival rate isn't that much lower [/quote] Festivals should be double other gigs as promoter has more income and less expenditure per act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBass Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 That's my point it's a ridiculous change over what other bands are charging, I had a few mats who used to charge £30 for an entire gig between 5 of them! Even though they were crap but because they undermined other local bands they'd get the gigs, it's a hard line to tread, hopefully moving our gigging base more to the London area will see a better return and more reliable Promoters. We try to ask if we are headline act for 50% and then extras on top of that, I'm fairly hard line when it comes to it as I'm not one for backing down, it's also my main income for the time being, we're yet to play this year as we are gearing up to record and re-work our set list, lots of originals are coming to the front now, all those horrid covers are going bye bye! That's a good going rate then! 99% of the promoters I've dealt with round Portsmouth way ALL operate on the idea that bands should only be paid for the amount of people they bring. Which is where the issue lays! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 [quote name='JamesBass' timestamp='1362606922' post='2002191'] That's a good going rate then! 99% of the promoters I've dealt with round Portsmouth way ALL operate on the idea that bands should only be paid for the amount of people they bring. Which is where the issue lays! [/quote] We fix the fee in £ based on the 60% of door revenue and contract to it. It is then up to the promoter to get enough punters in...that's their job - that's what promoting is eg Capacity 300 ticket price £10 we ask for (and get) £1800 plus expenses. The promoter than has to ensure he sells enough tickets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 The equation of what to charge for ticketed gross is interesting.... 25% seems way too low but 60% is optimistic and I can't see that working IME On figures of around £3500 to £4000 to the venue in sales ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBass Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 That's the issue here they won't operate like that, hence why the move to London is the idea for this year, first on the agenda is getting the set properly bang tidy and getting some of the songs recorded. Luckily we are recording ourselves, keeping it much cheaper that way I'm just shocked at how poor many of the promoters are locally! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1362607451' post='2002203'] The equation of what to charge for ticketed gross is interesting.... 25% seems way too low but 60% is optimistic and I can't see that working IME On figures of around £3500 to £4000 to the venue in sales ... [/quote] 60% works for us remember the promoters often get the bar or a significant percentage thereof Edited March 6, 2013 by Twigman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dand666 Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 We charge £200-£250 for pub gigs and then we are on several agencies so anything from £900 upwards, depending on the location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 We ask for £200 if it's the first time we play somewhere. We occasionally get as little as £150, but often get more... We once got £400 for a pub gig when the place was rammed! A local venue, knowing our reputation very well refused to give us any more than £50.. We told them where to go!! It's not about the money for us, but when they're one of the biggest rock pubs in the area who can clearly afford to pay at least as much as some of the *ahem* less prestiged venues around, that's just taking the piss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1362605980' post='2002168'] Don't agree, we will do a pub at pub rates and quote £600 upwards for a party for mates and around £1000 for weddings. Our festival rate isn't that much lower but we have better shows for them. Depends if you start at a pub band.... We limit what we do in that regard as it impacts on the rate and price of tickets you can charge ... But we will do a pub if we like the place and use it as a loss leader. [/quote] I agree with your not agreeing. It is perfectly feasible to do both types of gig [b]provided[/b] you treat the venues as being totally different. If we play a pub gig then it's always well advertised beforehand (material provided by us), we attract a good crowd and we get paid (often more than agreed plus a repeat booking, which is nice.. ). It's a basic setup though. If we play a wedding then we add a pile of 'extras' - longer sets, more instrument variations, lighting rig, bigger PA, background music/disco, 'first dance' played (and a recording presented to the couple on a properly packaged CD), radio mic for the speeches. Anything we can do to help the event go smoothly, we'll do it - hell, I even repaired a table at the last one we did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 [quote name='JamesBass' timestamp='1362603951' post='2002120'] How many others out there have been underpaid and were clueless as to this? I'm genuinely shocked! [/quote] MU rates aren't in any way legally binding. Sure, you can demand them whilst agreeing a price for the gig, and the venue can tell you to get stuffed and you'll just walk away with nothing. The harsh reality is that a bands value to a venue is based on bums on seats and drink sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 True, but that reality doesn't go down well in today's entitlement culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbunney Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 We generally get between £200 - £250 per gig for a 2 & 1/2 hour 32 song set which has to be split between 6 of us! So im definately in it for the love of playing rather than the money! Our worst paying venue is in lincoln which only pays £200 and we have to play till 2 in the morning and not even a free coke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1362649128' post='2002577'] True, but that reality doesn't go down well in today's entitlement culture. [/quote] Reality just 'is' what it is. The only way to escape that is to go into politics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Unless you can drum up a crowd I cant see how anyone can get paid more than a few quid each for original material? Doing your own songs and moving to London will just cost you extra to travel to London IME Good covers band or tribute act well thats different but originals bands equals £1 per ticket if you can sell more than 20 or similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earbrass Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 [quote name='JamesBass' timestamp='1362606922' post='2002191'] I had a few mats who used to charge £30 for an entire gig between 5 of them! [/quote] Well, they're just letting people walk all over them. (sorry - couldn't resist) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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