Gigging without an amp

[lobematt]

I've been thinking recently about gigging without an amp, just DI'ing straight from my sansamp into the PA and getting some in ear monitors to replace my on stage sound.

I was just wondering if anybody else does this and how well it works?! Would the whole band need to be doing the same thing for it to work? And also would I need to upgrade our PA to handle all the extra bass?

Thanks!

[JTUK]

what do the other guys in the band play to...?

[lobematt]

That's why I asked if the other guys in the band would need to be doing the same thing? Or at least in ear monitors?

[Lozz196]

In-ears or invest in floor monitors for each band member, and if relying solely on the PA, a sub as well might be handy.

[nottswarwick]

Perfectly possible. I have done a couple of gigs for a band as a dep like this. Everyone had in ear monitors with tier own mix. I used my own earphones. I found it fine, as I use custom earplugs so am used to having that slightly underwater feeling of my own voice, and to be honest it was great.

The other guitarists used pods into the PA, and the keys were straight in, so the only acoustic sound on stage was the drums, which were miked into the PA.

Once everyone's mix is set, it is really plug and play.

There was a FOH engineer though. I think it might by tricky to mix the FOH sound yourself with in ears in.

I reckon he best compromise is a small combo and PA support, if you operate the PA yourselves. I use a markbass mini cmd121p, guitar one uses a lanes cub 10watt valve amp, guitar 2 a koch50 watts amp but quietly, and guitar lead a fender hots rod, but again, quietly. Our drummer is nice, not too loud, and we have two great 750 watt monitors, so we have a wicked on stage sound, and the PA does all the work.

Sorry to ramble, waiting for my chicken to roast lol

[garythebass]

I used to go direct into the pa in my old band.

Took a feed into the line in of a 100w combo which was placed next to the drummer.

With the bleed-back from the pa it gave a good enough on-stage sound.

FOH sounded very good, but we had a decent pa with two subs. I wouldn't even attempt it without at least one sub.

Can't say i'm much of a fan of in ear monitoring as you don't feel the music as well, but everyone would have to have them for reasons already covered.

They would probably cost more than a decent sub and a combo/monitor anyway depending on how many there are in you band.

[Truckstop]

Yeah you need to have a nice powerful PA to carry all the bass properly and a decent pair of subs. Get a few monitors or in-ears for the band and away you go.

Otherwise, yeah. It really is as simple as that!

Truckstop

[xgsjx]

One of my dad's friends has a function band & they all play direct into the PA with a couple of wedge foldbacks.

Silddx does the same but with IEM (AFAIK).

[mcgraham]

Having in-ears and DI'ing straight into the desk is a great way to go, with the proviso that you can get a sound you're happy with from your PA set up and sound guy. Which might require more know-how and better PA equipment.

[lobematt]

Thanks for all the replies guys! I think before I go any further with this our PA would need an upgrade which might just be the end to my plan as I don't think our management company would be to keen to fork out for subs!

[peted]

I'm due to start doing this this year. really looking forward to it!

[brensabre79]

I did it for a while when a band I was in were doing venues with in house PA. Never again.
The last gig I did this (the one I decided that I would take a small combo for monitoring) I spent the first 3 songs of the set asking for more in the monitor wedge, before realising (when I looked down) that the cone of the driver had a 2" hole in it! I could feel the bass coming from the FOH, but it was just low low frequencies, without any definition or pitch.

SO I spent the rest of the gig looking at my lined fingerboard (thank goodness I went for lines!) and hoping that whatever the audience could hear wasn't too offensive.

If its your own PA, no problem as you have some control over it, but if you are relying on someone else for your sound forget it.

[Doddy]

I've done it a lot,and it's fine. If you are already going through the PA then there won't (shouldn't) be any
extra bass to add. I wouldn't do it with floor wedges though,it's a million times better with in ears.
Also,what is everyone else doing? If you are going ampless can the rest of the band hear you? If you
get the whole band on in ears then you get the stage volume right down and everyone can get a good
mix while still getting a good sound out front-sometimes better because the soundguy can balance the sound
without worrying about stage volume. Some desks,like Presonus,let you download an iPhone app where you can
control your own monitor mix via a wireless network-it's brilliant.

[thodrik]

I went ampless for a few gigs. You are always depending on the venue having a decent PA, decent monitoring system or in-ears and decent soundperson who isn't afraid to put bass through a monitor and pa, which is not always a guarantee. Ultimately I liked the safeguard or a load, portable combo.

If I was in a function band carting about my own pa and monitors, I'd consider going ampless though.

[chrisba]

I've done several gigs in a club where there was no room on stage for amps, and we all just DI'ed into the PA, with a couple of monitors. The stage had a big sub underneath it, so the bass came though OK, but it helped a lot when I asked the soundman to up my treble in the monitor.

Not great, but it worked, and we really enjoy the gigs there, so put up with it.

[lobematt]

[quote name='thodrik' timestamp='1358181136' post='1934375']
[size=4]If I was in a function band carting about my own pa and monitors, I'd consider going ampless though.[/size]
[/quote]

That's what I'm doing at the min, was hoping that a bass amp could be one less thing to cart around haha! We're only a 3 piece and I think our guitarist could definitely be persuaded to go amp-less.

What sort of specs would I be looking at for a PA to handle something like this?

[6v6]

[quote name='lobematt' timestamp='1358184009' post='1934457']
That's what I'm doing at the min, was hoping that a bass amp could be one less thing to cart around haha! We're only a 3 piece and I think our guitarist could definitely be persuaded to go amp-less.
[/quote]

IME what you gain by not having a big bass rig, you will lose by having to have big, heavy, expensive subwoofer cabs for your PA (assuming you have to help carry and pay for it that is!)

I did a gig as others describe with a small combo (Hartke kickback 12) DI'd into a PA running 2x18" subs, 2x12" tops, with three wedges on-stage (combined with my amp which was pointed at the drummer). Sounded OK but having loads of foldback volume made for a muddy on-stage sound and I found it hard to balance the level between the foldback and my amp.

[quote name='lobematt' timestamp='1358184009' post='1934457']
What sort of specs would I be looking at for a PA to handle something like this?
[/quote]

A starting point which would handle most sized small-mid sized venues (ie most without an in-house PA) would be something along the lines of the following (just using Mackie as an example as I own some SRM450s so am fairly familiar with the Mackie range)
- 2 Mackie SRM1801 subs
- 2 SRM350 or 450 tops (I'd go for the 450s if putting bass through the PA)
- 3 SRM350s (or cheaper alternatives) for wedge-monitors on stage (unless going iem as others have pointed out)

Combined with a compact mixer of your choice those would kick out some pretty serious volume.

Of course there are loads of alternatives - you could use passive speakers and separate amps, a combined mixer/amp etc, but I personally favour the active speakers - less stuff to wire up, less need for a big rack case of amps, if one breaks down, you still have the rest and e.g could substitute a stage wedge for a top if one blew.

[lobematt]

Thanks for that 6v6!

Seems more trouble than it's worth I think!

Cheers guys