Mikey R Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 (edited) [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1349899648' post='1832101'] Also if you have no limiter to catch excessive peaks then you will likely need to go a little faster in the attack to keep them under control.... [/quote] There may be no need to catch the peaks - the amp will clip them off and that might be a sound you want. Ive been playing around with valvey type amps and thats just what they do. However, if you want a really clean sound, then yes I agree you would probably limit them. Edited October 13, 2012 by Mikey R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 The compression article is everything I hoped it would be, a brilliant distillation of all the wisdom from your bassbash sessions and many postings. Could I be cheeky and ask if there's a similar set of handy hits for setting up compression for live vocals, because I'm growing increasingly dissatisfied with the single-knob compressor on my mixer but don't really have the confidence to know where to start with a proper rack compressor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) Sure. For live you are really looking for set it and forget it type of level control more than anything else. Things may be very different on a recording... Vocals normally have no appreciable transient so you can get as fast as the comp will go although listen for distortion, since some comps can produce artifacts if you set them too fast. As little as 3ms isnt a problem IME. This also negates the need for a limiter after the compressor in almost all cases. Release can be set fairly gently too since we are looking to damp down the fire a bit on everything and there is no big need to let a transient poke through). 100 to 150ms should be fine. Get the threshold set exactly like you did on the bass (max ratio, quiet singing, turn the threshold down until you see some GR occur on the meter) but watch out for feedback (esp with an automatic makeup gain), then slacken off the ratio until you get a good 3dB to 6dB of GR (assuming the monitors get a clear unaffected version, or your singer might kill there voice trying to push the monitor louder) when singing normally. Set the makeup gain to equal to the volume of loud singing. Again watch for feedback - if you get some knock the ratio down a tad then try setting the makeup gain again. Soft knee if you have the option too... Job done.... Edited November 9, 2012 by 51m0n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Excellent, many thanks - we'll give it a go at the next loud practice. Can do soft knee, I have an old Phonic PLC3200. Before I got into live sound, I though creative pumping was being able to fart the first 4 bars of the National anthem :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 18, 2012 Author Share Posted November 18, 2012 New Blog Post up on [url="http://blog.basschat.co.uk/equalisation/"]Equalisation[/url] Enjoy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeatNut Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1353243626' post='1872877'] New Blog Post up on [url="http://blog.basschat.co.uk/equalisation/"]Equalisation[/url] Enjoy.... [/quote] Nice. I find the practical advice on which knob to twiddle first particularly useful. I bought a fully parametric EQ pedal a while back, and while I know what each of the knobs does, the combinations of the 3 variables was just too much and I never found it did anything useful for me. I will now tackle it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey R Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 [quote name='BigBeatNut' timestamp='1353246219' post='1872915'] Nice. I find the practical advice on which knob to twiddle first particularly useful. I bought a fully parametric EQ pedal a while back, and while I know what each of the knobs does, the combinations of the 3 variables was just too much and I never found it did anything useful for me. I will now tackle it again. [/quote] Yep, cheers Si - definately made me question whether a graphic EQ is more handy than a semi parametric on an amplifier. If you had two amps to choose from, one with two swept mids and hi and low shelving or peaking EQ, the second with a 10 band graphic, if all else was equal which would you choose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeatNut Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 [quote name='Mikey R' timestamp='1353250764' post='1872938'] If you had two amps to choose from, one with two swept mids and hi and low shelving or peaking EQ, the second with a 10 band graphic, if all else was equal which would you choose? [/quote] For me, swept mids hands down. Having had a semi-para single band mid pedal for a while, I'm used to the difference between boosting at 600 versus 400. To replicate that with a graphic I'd want 1/2 octave bands from 30 to 1khz ( 11 bands) plus shelving highs. Whereas actually a 3 (or possibly 2) band semi-para (plus shelving highs) would probably completely fulfil my needs as a bass player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 18, 2012 Author Share Posted November 18, 2012 Glad it was helpful!! Swept Mids every time on an amp for me. Better yet, all 4 bands being swept, like the MB TA503. The top and bottom are shelving but you a can change the frequency on them - lovely! Remember cut first, cut as sharp as you can, cut hard, boost gentle, boost wide. If possible. The result always sounds more natural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayPH Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Thanks Si. I get this more now. I'm going to mix some music tonight and will try this technique. Do you add EQ after you have adjusted your levels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 [quote name='JayPH' timestamp='1353428375' post='1874848'] Thanks Si. I get this more now. I'm going to mix some music tonight and will try this technique. Do you add EQ after you have adjusted your levels? [/quote] Its more complex than that. The actual act of getting a mix is a very iterative process. I tend to try and through up something with the faders as roughly as possible just to get a clue. After that I 'build' the mix in terms of groups, aux sends, fx I think I'm going to need etc etc... Boring stuff that can take ages, but if you dont do it then the computer fights you. Then I'll mute areas I'm not interested in at all yet, and listen for anything dodgy, I can spend two or three hours just mooching around to be honest, a little tweak here or there, learning how the song moves me. At some point I sort of change mode and just hack all the bad stuff out of the various tracks with EQ, change envelopes with compressors, look for the right ambience, adding more tracks and hacking more stuff out, refining the general balance constantly. I also spend time balancing sections (groups) together so that I can then control the level of a section easily. Eventually I am left with something very close. Then I usually leave it, and come back in a few days. Time to this point on average (for a serious mix) is at least 5 to 8 hours. Revisions and polishing from there can take an age or just be bang on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Great stuff! I feel like I know a lot of this stuff but it's like good revision. You should write a text book Si! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 Well the Blog will one day get there I hope. Here's hoping it gets to the point where people search there first and ask on the forum second. Then I know I'm getting somewhere (long long way to go before then though ) Its good revision for me too CT, I have to think about what it is I actually do before answering most of the questions. Its all so natural for me, I dont think "Oh, right I need to use some slow attack medium ratio medium threshold compression to accentuate the transient on this guitar rather than just make it brighter, since the actual tone is right but its nto making the impact I want it to in the mix" I just make the guitar sound 'right' to me. Its quite without conscious thought when I'm mixing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 yes, that's the kind of insight I love. I guess you have a few more basics to cover on the blog, but when you have, a sort of general "step by step mix session" would be ace. I know everyone has their own methods/work-flow but personally i'd find that fascinating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1353243626' post='1872877'] New Blog Post up on [url="http://blog.basschat.co.uk/equalisation/"]Equalisation[/url] Enjoy.... [/quote] Cheers Si! VERY useful. Thanks as always You should compile all this info into a book one day - seriously - I'd buy it and I'm sure many others would too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 Awwww shucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurksalot Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 A bit late for the mix competetion but a lot of it makes more sense now that I have re-read it after trying to do a mix . great stuff Si ,many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 [quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1353503815' post='1875274'] Cheers Si! VERY useful. Thanks as always You should compile all this info into a book one day - seriously - I'd buy it and I'm sure many others would too. [/quote] It's a book I could do with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted May 4, 2013 Author Share Posted May 4, 2013 One of these days I may get around to adding some more to this, once I'm not tied up running the mix comp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1367664602' post='2068084'] One of these days I may get around to adding some more to this, once I'm not tied up running the mix comp [/quote] Bizarrely, I had a dream last night that I got the K meter thing to work... Yes, my mind really is that empty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Glad you bumped it, I missed it first time round, and definitely need to read this stuff. I've been trawling through yep's "why do my recordings sound like arse" thread over on the reaper forums as well, but there's a lot of that... Good stuff Si. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 [quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1367678509' post='2068311'] Glad you bumped it, I missed it first time round, and definitely need to read this stuff. I've been trawling through yep's "why do my recordings sound like arse" thread over on the reaper forums as well, but there's a lot of that... Good stuff Si. Thanks. [/quote] Anything I've ever recorded has sounded like arse. I pretty much don't bother anymore. I don't have the equipment or knowledge to make a decent recording. I record the odd thing on my laptop to see how it sounds, but that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 [url="http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=29283"]http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=29283[/url] Read this Milty, makes a world of difference. Takes a long time to read it all mind, but really helpful stuff from the ground up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 [quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1367679532' post='2068329'] [url="http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=29283"]http://forum.cockos....ead.php?t=29283[/url] Read this Milty, makes a world of difference. Takes a long time to read it all mind, but really helpful stuff from the ground up. [/quote] Cheers! But still doesn't change that I have no equipment, and no money for any I'm going to read it anyway, I need all the help I can get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockfordStone Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1367606972' post='2067585'] It's a book I could do with [/quote] ive got a couple of good book titles worth looking at if you are interested. drop me a pm if you want some names Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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