Eb tuning

[Damonjames]

Hi chatters I always wondered why Duff From guns n roses and Jason from Metallica use Eb tuning? Can anyone shed some light on the theory behind this as I can't remember using Eb tuning when playing guitar to their stuff ( it was a while ago though!!)
Cheers

[chrismuzz]

I think Metallica play in Eb live sometimes, no other reason than it sounds a bit heavier I think!

[KingBollock]

I think it's supposed to sound a bit heavier, a bit more depressing. Some bands detune to help the singer too. Metallica use a lot of different tunings though.

Most bands that do it do it just to be annoying. I keep my main 4 string tuned to Eb and my main 5 string tuned to standard, to try to cover most stuff.

[jonsebass]

In our covers band we do everything in Eb just to help the singer out.

I think most bands just do it to sound a bit heavier.

Some bands (IE Queen) have done the majority of recordings just a touch out of key - they are all in tune, but its not a standard tuning - try playing along with Hammer to Fall for instance

[KingBollock]

[quote name='jonsebass' timestamp='1343680068' post='1753677']
In our covers band we do everything in Eb just to help the singer out.

I think most bands just do it to sound a bit heavier.

Some bands (IE Queen) have done the majority of recordings just a touch out of key - they are all in tune, but its not a standard tuning - try playing along with Hammer to Fall for instance
[/quote]
Sepultura's Arise album and Megadeth's Peace Sells are like that. Pain in the bum.

[mep]

Our band detunes to Eb, and one other band in the past has as well. For us it's to help with the vocals, and it works.

[Damonjames]

Thanks for the prompt replies. Sounds to me like I found and excuse to have another bass ;-)
Bit of a pain if you just want to jam along to a track at home though.

[pobrien_ie]

I'm pretty sure with G n' R that the guitars were detuned also. Up until recently I played in a covers band that played a lot of Thin Lizzy and G n' R and it was a pain when learning the songs! I generally just detune when learning so I don't have to transpose by a half step when playing live.

A covers band I played with over 12 years ago have just reformed for a one-off gig. Back in the day we always played in standard tuning even though a lot of the songs we played were originally played with Eb tuning (Live, Thin Lizzy, Placebo, early Green Day etc.)

When we jammed again a few weeks ago we thought we'd try the Eb tuning to compliment some of the original reordings and to help the singer. Sounded ok for some stuff, but for the songs that were recorded in standard tuning it just sounded wrong (Pearl Jam, Chili Peppers etc). The singer also found it harder to sing, as he felt it was stretching his vocals in the more "shouty" parts.

[Commando Jack]

Guns 'n' Roses tuned down because of Slash. I can't find anything online from the horse's mouth, but it was apparently because it was easier for him to do higher string bends (i.e 3 - 4 semitones).

I was under the impression that it was standard practise for bands to tune down live so that they could play the same thing and save the singers vocals a bit (Bon Jovi play detuned live for example). The other reason might be if you're playing with a horn section it might make it easier for them (e.g. some Stevie Wonder tracks).

[quote name='jonsebass' timestamp='1343680068' post='1753677']
Some bands (IE Queen) have done the majority of recordings just a touch out of key - they are all in tune, but its not a standard tuning - try playing along with Hammer to Fall for instance
[/quote]

Back when everything was recorded on reel-to-reel tape, it was common for producers to speed up or slow down a track after it had been recorded to make it sound better (to them of course). If you speed it up the pitch went higher, and slowing down lowered the pitch. They were never too bothered about whether it landed on key, so sometimes the song ended up between keys.

[quote name='Damonjames' timestamp='1343683441' post='1753760']
Bit of a pain if you just want to jam along to a track at home though.
[/quote]

You can pitch-shift in Audacity. I often shift Eb tracks up a semitone and save it as "Song Title in E" or whatever, and use that version for practise. If you need to do it on the fly you can use Best Practice.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Commando Jack

[chrismuzz]

The Audo driver on my laptop allows me to change everything up or down by up to four semitones without altering any files. Really handy!!

[peteb]

The original reason for playing in Eb was so that guitarists (Hendrix, etc) could use heravy guage strings and still be able to bend strings!

Then a lot of bands started de-tuning to help singers live and then others to try and sound heavier......

[jonsebass]

If anyone wants some (ahem) totally legit software that alters the key of songs, but not the pitch, then hit me up! it also does tempo

[hollywoodrox]

I think motley Crüe tune to D from when I played guitar, I have trouble playing to Saxon 747 album track I'm sure it's so many cents out like peace sells by megadeath, I get round it by jamming along to them live usually in Eb. Got a track of evh playing jump in his garden in F

[chrismuzz]

My soundcard software allows me to alter the pitch of the entire thing up or down as much as 4 steps. much easier than messing around with individual tracks! There MUST be a program one can download which does a similar thing...

[chris_b]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1343760454' post='1754854']
....The original reason for playing in Eb was so that guitarists (Hendrix, etc) could use heravy guage strings and still be able to bend strings!....
[/quote]

+1

Stevie Ray Vaughan also played everything in Eb. Guitarists tune down so they can use a heavier gauge of strings, which gets them a bigger and fuller sound while maintaining the correct string tension.

[Kongo]

[quote name='Damonjames' timestamp='1343672680' post='1753528']
Hi chatters I always wondered why Duff From guns n roses and Jason from Metallica use Eb tuning? Can anyone shed some light on the theory behind this as I can't remember using Eb tuning when playing guitar to their stuff ( it was a while ago though!!)
Cheers
[/quote]

Metallica used to be a thrash metal band and most bands of that sub-genre opt for Eb standard. It's a touch lower than E-standard, but not too low that their constant "thrashing" of the lowest string becomes muddy. Lots of low string pedalling is used in thrash and even though they have changed as a whole, it's where they are rooted as players personally.
Guitars in standard sound quite piercing at times, metal is more about the low end. How does a guitar gain more low end? Same way a bass guitar has it's low end; lower note register.

I agree, detuning can be a PITA. I hate dropped tuning though, for bass it messes up fingerings royally.
The detuned standard variation I dislike however is C-standard...Hardly anyone uses it, such a limbo tuning. So when a song comes up in that tuning a bass has to go into limbo too, to rarely be played. :-P

[D.I. Joe]

[quote name='Commando Jack' timestamp='1343746336' post='1754526']
The other reason might be if you're playing with a horn section it might make it easier for them (e.g. some Stevie Wonder tracks).
[/quote]

I think you're right, a lot of Motown recordings are in flat keys. In Stevie Wonder's case though - I believe most of his songs are in flat keys because the black keys are much easier for him to find.

In Fragile Sanity we play in Eb for the sake of vocals, but we play some songs in their native key - and not just the ones that are originally in Eb tuning!

[Bilbo]

Jazz guitarist Jim Hall tunes down a 4th to get a really warm sound.