Acoustic and Bass

[Dr M]

Right, long story short - after losing a second drummer (seriously, I swear they're allergic to us), myself and the guitarist / singer I play with have decided to go it alone, and attempt to do a few open-mic nights with acoustic guitar, vocals, bass, and possibly a Logarhythm style stomp-box .

Said guitarist has quite a lot of experience of doing open-mic nights as a solo act (vocals and acoustic guitar). However, neither of us have tried this set-up before.

Essentially, I'm looking for some advice. Has anyone got any first-hand experience of playing in a duo like this? Tips for accompanying vocals and acoustic guitar on a bass? Should I just run for the hills?

[icastle]

I play in a duo as well as a 5 piece band - we actually run an open mic night!

First thing to do is decide on material you can play in a 'cut down' format - some songs just don't work in a cut down format.

Don't be afraid to go down the root note path, IME it's often far more appropriate than trying to play the original bass lines without a drummer to work against.

Short foot tapping tunes and gentle ballads always work best, especially if the audience recognises them.

Engage the audience - chat and joke with them, take the p*ss out of each other.
Sounds daft but once you have the audience 'onside' you will definately go down well.

Whilst arranging material, be aware that trying to do something clever is probably going to be a train crash waiting to happen.

Keep an ear open to the other performers are playing - there might be raw ingredients for a band to be found.

Other than that just chill out and enjoy it.

[BassBus]

Sounds like good advice from icastle. I play in a folk trio, fiddle, acoustic guitar and bass. We only play occasionally as a support but a few jokes are told and the audience are engaged. Be sure to get the balance right. Don't try and dominate with the bass. Just keep it basic and take your place as support to the guitar, even if it does stick in your teeth.

[Mykesbass]

Sorry, two drummers lost? You haven't even started yet!! We do a (semi) un-plugged four piece for a couple of pubs that don't want a full band, goes down really well.

[lowdowner]

Yes, absolutely - our band consists of one guitarist (lead/rhythm combined), one vocalist/flautist, and me on bass. The combo works very well. We play mostly folk/country/classic rock and the bass adds the rhythm with some ghost/whomp notes in the right place.

All three of us do the vocals when we need to add harmonies, and I think the result works...

Give it a try and you (and audience) might be surprised

[Dr M]

icastle - thanks very much, that's really good advice.


[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1342209016' post='1731871']
Don't be afraid to go down the root note path
[/quote]

Well, this describes about 90% of my playing in general, so that shouldn't be a problem.

What about gear and sound? As we're looking at open-mic nights, in most cases I'll be relying on the venue's backline. I own an Ibanez Iceman and a Squier Jazz (both passive). For full-band situations, I usually use a Bad Monkey to just add a little bit of grit. I'm thinking this probably isn't a great plan when accompanying an acoustic, but I am a little unnerved about just going straight into a pa or amp I've never used before.

[amnesia]

This week my band has done a few acoustic tunes on the radio. Just with guitar, bass and vocal as the drummer couldn't make it.

We went through all our tracks in practice (Alter Bridge-ish originals) and only about half of them work stripped down due to the solos or rhythms - so our experience agrees with icastle. Some songs just don't work!

The biggest problem we had was staying in time with each other without a drummer. If the drummer wanders a bit and the guitars go with him, its not too bad as the band is together as a unit. With no drummer it is easy - especially in solos we found - for the bass and guitar to go out of time as our internal metronomes aren't calibrated the same! Our solution was to give me a tambourine that I tapped with my foot during solos.

One thing we were missing (apart from rehearsal unplugged!) was backing vocals. With an extra harmony or even a just a doubling vocal it makes a huge difference.

All three of us enjoyed it, and will definately keep the acoustic stripped down tracks fresh so we can drop into open mic nights just for fun.

[Dr M]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1342209757' post='1731892']
Sorry, two drummers lost? You haven't even started yet!!
[/quote]

Well, this has been inside 6 months. We're still working on finding more, so we can add to that total.

[amnesia]

[quote name='Dr M' timestamp='1342253527' post='1732276']
What about gear and sound?
[/quote]

I use my sansamp with no change in settings striaght into the PA at rehearsal instead of my VBA rig, and in the radio studio I used my 20W practice amp turned right down, again with the sansamp!

We found that a slightly agressive bass sound suited our songs better than when I used my acoustic bass

[icastle]

[quote name='Dr M' timestamp='1342253527' post='1732276']
What about gear and sound? As we're looking at open-mic nights, in most cases I'll be relying on the venue's backline. I own an Ibanez Iceman and a Squier Jazz (both passive). For full-band situations, I usually use a Bad Monkey to just add a little bit of grit. I'm thinking this probably isn't a great plan when accompanying an acoustic, but I am a little unnerved about just going straight into a pa or amp I've never used before.
[/quote]

The Jazz would probably be a better choice for accompanying acoustic guitar if for no better reason than it won't 'jar' on a visual level.

As far as effects are concerned, I'd personally stay away from added 'grit' but it's really a case of 'whatever works'.
I do like a smidgen* of chorus though - it adds a little extra depth to a stripped down arrangement.

I always use my own amplification, just less of it than usual - I just take a 2x10 and make sure I get to the venue in plenty of time to setup before most of the audience arrive.


*A 'smidgen' is just enough that people don't realise you're using it until you switch it off and they know 'something' is missing.

[Len_derby]

Some good advice above. I play a lot in an acoustic guitar and electric bass duo.
After trying different things out I've found that a Fender Jazz strung with roundwounds provides the best blend with the guitar.

For a bit of variety in the set I drop out bass playing in some songs and provide harmonica or a bit of simple percussion. Tambourine, shaker, whatever.

I also supply most of the off-colour jokes between songs too.

[Mog]

IMO its a great situation to be in. You can be really expressive and use the bass as a lead instrument at times or lay back and keep things solid and tight.Just experiment with songs at practice until you're comfortable enough to try some improv.
I normally use my 6string through a suitable amp (depends on venue). FX wise i use a Digitech chorus and an Ebow.

[icastle]

...and don't forget the appropriate way of training your guitarist into the 'getting things right' methodology...

...get the timing right and you can leave the chord that he missed ringing whilst you explain, clearly and concisely, that 'getting things right' is a really good idea...

[paul_5]

I'm doing something very similar at some festival or other on Friday night in Liverpool. Ideally I'd use my short scale acoustic fretless, as it looks good and as it's got flats on it, it's got a lovely mellow tone that's not too boomy. The singer/songwriter has requested frets though (not sure if he's had a bad experience in the past), so it'll be the Jazz bass. Probably with flats.

Of course, [i]he[/i] gets to play this:
[IMG]http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd471/paul_510/314703_10151889485045332_1495178595_n.jpg[/IMG]

Edited July 14, 2012 by paul_5

[Dr M]

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1342283391' post='1732818']
Of course, [i]he[/i] gets to play this:

[/quote]

Hang on, you can actually play that? One look at the bridge makes me cringe.

[Dr M]

[quote name='Len_derby' timestamp='1342282184' post='1732807']
After trying different things out I've found that a Fender Jazz strung with roundwounds provides the best blend with the guitar.
[/quote]

That's really interesting. I shall have to take my Squier along to our next practise and see how it goes.


[quote name='Len_derby' timestamp='1342282184' post='1732807']
I also supply most of the off-colour jokes between songs too.
[/quote]

Always a good skill to have!

[xgsjx]

I'm another who plays in an "acoustic" band. Vocalist who plays guitar & occasionally banjo, mandolinist who plays uke, whistle & spoons & me on bass & occasionally guitar.
It's really down to what style of music you're playing on what you use & play.
I use quite a few effects in most songs whereas others I'll use none (some I won't even play much bass if there's no need to, or pick up the guitar).
Here's some of our stuff to give you an idea...

[url="http://soundcloud.com/bassg/sets/bigroom-practice"]Bigroom practice set.[/url]


The important bit is having fun.

[Eggy]

This is a really interesting thread for me, have been thinking about doing something similar as a sideline to main band. The main band is full on indie rock and I feel that a small stripped down arrangement may make it easier to find pub type gigs, more gentle music for people to listen to rather than jumping up and down rock party stuff. Our drummer has a set of bongos, so acoustic guitar, bass and bongo could be the set up

Thanks for all the great advice in the thread

Eggy

Edited July 18, 2012 by Eggy

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1342283212' post='1732817']
...and don't forget the appropriate way of training your guitarist into the 'getting things right' methodology...

...get the timing right and you can leave the chord that he missed ringing whilst you explain, clearly and concisely, that 'getting things right' is a really good idea...


[/quote]

Bloody hell Ian he can't even hold it the right way round, must be hard work?

[icastle]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1342558518' post='1737162']
Bloody hell Ian he can't even hold it the right way round, must be hard work?
[/quote]



He's actually right handed but lost a finger in an industrial mishap.
He taught himself to play guitar left handed to compensate for the missing digit.

I'll say it because he doesn't read BassChat and won't get ideas above his station - he's probably one of the finest fingerpick guitarists I've ever worked with.
We've started recording our first CD.

[mike257]

I've played in a couple of setups like this before in varying combinations of one or two acoustics and vocals. Often just used my Sandberg direct into the venue's vocal rig, you don't need a huge booming sound at an acoustic night and the preamp gave me all the shaping I needed.

As others have said, some songs won't work immediately as the rhythms don't click without some kind of percussion to bounce off, but you can compensate for this with a bit of rearranging. Don't be afraid to take a step back and approach the songs from a different angle, there's almost always a way to make it work in a stripped back fashion.

An extra vocal will make the world of difference if you can handle some BV's (I can't!). With one singer-songwriter I backed up, I also took my acoustic guitar along and would play second guitar rather than bass on songs where that seemed more appropriate - if you're alright with a six string it will give you that extra bit of flexibility in terms of what you play and how you approach it, and as both are probably just plugged to the desk it's a matter of seconds to put down one and grab the other.

Good fun though, and a wholly different experience to blasting it out with a blazing wall of backline!